UM3 pushes out bowden from feeder

[esopalumpa 8]

Hello,

 

Our UM3 started to push out the bowden-tube from the feeder during printing, destroying the running print.

We cut the end of the bowden,  this worked for one print sometimes.

After doing this several times, we replaced the bowden and the coupling-collet on the feeder-side.

This worked for some time, then the printer pushed the bowden out of the feeder again.

This happens without visible reason: no clogged nozzle, etc.

I would have expect that the feeder would rather grind the filament than push the bowden tube out of the feeder.

 

Any hint? Is this a common problem with Ultimaker printers?

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by esopalumpa
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[Framar 38]

Hello, 

 

Never see that on our S5. Does it happen with any type of material?

Stupid question but does the retainer clip on that locks the tube in place is in place?

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Actually the locking is done by the little teeth in the white plastic thingy, not the horseshoe shaped thingy. Did you check it? Did you change it for a new one when you changed the Bowden for a new? Did you get a  original Ultimaker part? I have seen 3th party tubes with a too small diameter..

[esopalumpa 8]

12 hours ago, Framar said:

Hello, 

 

Never see that on our S5. Does it happen with any type of material?

Stupid question but does the retainer clip on that locks the tube in place is in place?

 

We primarily print with PLA.

I don’t know if it happens with other materials.

Yes, the retainer-clip is in place.

 

9 hours ago, ultiarjan said:

Actually the locking is done by the little teeth in the white plastic thingy, not the horseshoe shaped thingy. Did you check it? Did you change it for a new one when you changed the Bowden for a new? Did you get a  original Ultimaker part? I have seen 3th party tubes with a too small diameter..

 

We changed the “white plastic thingy” (https://www.igo3d.com/Tube-Coupling-Collet) when we changed the bowden.

igo3d is a official ultimaker reseller (https://ultimaker.com/de/resellers/de), so we assume both the tube coupling collet and the bowden are original parts.

And, btw., it first happens with the parts that were mounted when we purchased the printer.

 

 

[geert_2 558]

When mounting the bowden tube, do you push it far enough in, all the way down?

 

Thus: first lift the rentention ring with your finger nails. In my printer this is a white ring on top of the head, where the tube goes in. Then insert the bowden tube all the way down, while you keep the white ring lifted. And then insert the horseshoe clip? If the tube is not inserted deep enough, it may not grip well upon pulling. That could produce the phenomena you see. (But that does not mean there can't be other causes, such as a worn-out tube, or incorrect outer diameter.)

 

For easier removal and replacement of the tube and horseshoe clips, I have designed my own clips a couple of years ago. They were made for my UM2 printer, so I am not sure if they still fit on an UM3? Anyway, feel free to borrow the concept and design your own, if these wouldn't fit well on an UM3.

 

See here (and then scroll down a bit):

https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/geert-keteleer/manuals/

 

 

[esopalumpa 8]

2 hours ago, geert_2 said:

When mounting the bowden tube, do you push it far enough in, all the way down?

 

Thus: first lift the rentention ring with your finger nails. In my printer this is a white ring on top of the head, where the tube goes in. Then insert the bowden tube all the way down, while you keep the white ring lifted. And then insert the horseshoe clip? If the tube is not inserted deep enough, it may not grip well upon pulling. That could produce the phenomena you see. (But that does not mean there can't be other causes, such as a worn-out tube, or incorrect outer diameter.)

 

 

It is installed correctly. As deep as possible.

[esopalumpa 8]

I disassembled (and reassembled) the feeder.

Seems to be O.K.: no wear, broken parts or cracks as far as I can see.

 

My assumption is, that if the printhead moves, the bowden transmits the head movement to the collet as it is quite stiff. Over time the bowden-collet connection wears out and the bowden wiggles out of the collets.

 

Which part is intended to absorb the bowden movement, esp. the rotation?

Should the collet rotate in the feeder-case, should the bowden rotate in the collet or should the bowden akt as a torsion-element?

Edited March 2, 2020 by esopalumpa

[esopalumpa 8]

It did it again…

 

Is anybody able to shed any light on this?

[P3D 46]

How does the end of your bowden tube look like? It could help to cut the end so there's a fresh end that the fitting can hold on to....

[esopalumpa 8]

11 minutes ago, P3D said:

How does the end of your bowden tube look like? It could help to cut the end so there's a fresh end that the fitting can hold on to....

 

It is visibly worn out.

We already cut it several times and then replaced it together with the collet. I just shortened the new bowden the second time.

This helps for a short time, but then it happens again.

 

[P3D 46]

Hum... very strange. Never had this happen at all...

[geert_2 558]

On my UM2, the tube is also worn-out, but it keeps clamping well.

 

If the nozzle is not blocked, and there are no temperature problems (printing too cold, so it does not melt), the tubing is the correct diameter, and the filament is not too thick, or any other things that block feeding, then I keep thinking that you might not be inserting the tube well enough? It is not sufficient to just push-in the tube all the way down. At the same time, you also need to lift the white ring as high as possible by pulling hard: this lifting is what will cause the locking afterwards. Could you verify this again? If you already did this correctly, then I am out of ideas, concerning physics.

 

If the materialistic ways of handling do not work, and there is *nothing wrong* physically, then maybe you need to handle it spiritually? Remember the first moment when you concluded that "it was pushing out the bowden tube"? Or whatever wording you had in mind? Then remove that early decision, cancel it, and remove all negative emotions and upsets associated with that past event. So the past is clean. Because the printer might still be operating on that old decision, even though the cause might no longer be there. Replace this old decision with the new firm decision that it will now work well.

 

The reason is that people tend to keep living on old decisions and conclusions, even though their environments are changing, and their old ideas might no longer be valid in the new circumstances. Then their routines and old conclusions get in the way, instead of helping. Before making new decisions or conclusions, people should first remember and remove the old conclusions. Otherwise these tend to stay active and interfere with the new ones. Some people have very strong spiritual powers that can influence objects in the material world. Maybe you are one of them?

 

[esopalumpa 8]

The feeding is not blocked and all parts are originals. Even if it blocks I would expect the feeder to grind the filament (as reported frequently) instead of pushing out the bowden.

I think I installed it correctly.

I’m quite sure there is something wrong, but I don’t know what.

Therefore the question about where the rotation should be absorbed.

 

[guillermo 0]

Hi!  I have just started having exactly the same problem in a very new UM2+ ( not more than 2 days of use/printing).

I have three UM printers:  One "old" UM2+, another  UMS3, and recently I bought another UM2+.

  In the two older printers I never suffered this problem , but in the newset UM2+  the bowden comes out from the feeder after 15 or 20 minutes of normal printing.

I have checked already everything as you also did.  

I am also very interested to find a solution  as it is a very new machine and I don´t know wich should be the reason for this issue.

I am looking forward a "materialistic" solution  as I do not believe that a  machine can modify its behavour depending on  our spiritual status as geert_2 suggests . 

Edited March 29, 2020 by guillermo

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Just thinking out loud I would think the plastic part from the head, and also the feeder are injection molded, so they did not change. My best guess would be an issue with the small white couple thingy (with the metal teeth in it)  as it's probably an externally bought part... did you change it with one of you other printers?

 

But maybe the most likely issue is the bowden diameter being to small? did you check it? maybe swap with one of the other printers and see what happens...

 

 

[esopalumpa 8]

‣ Push the collet down

‣ insert the bowden and push it in with some force

‣ pull the collet up (with some force) while still pushing the bowden down

‣ insert the clip

 

The original clip is 1.4mm thick. I designed clips with 1.5 mm, 1.6 mm, 1.7 mm and 1.8 mm to increase tension on the collet if necessary.

Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,4mm.stl Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,5mm.stl Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,6mm.stl Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,7mm.stl Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,8mm.stl

[guillermo 0]

17 hours ago, ultiarjan said:

Just thinking out loud I would think the plastic part from the head, and also the feeder are injection molded, so they did not change. My best guess would be an issue with the small white couple thingy (with the metal teeth in it)  as it's probably an externally bought part... did you change it with one of you other printers?

 

But maybe the most likely issue is the bowden diameter being to small? did you check it? maybe swap with one of the other printers and see what happens...

 

 

Thank you for your advice. The printer with the problem is a very new one ( only   20 hours of use) and with all the original parts.  After writting my first post I cutted the bowden 5mm in the feeder side and I could print a couple of prints normally and in the third piece the bowden was pushed out again. I didn´´´ t try  yet to use the Tube coupling collet of my other UM2+. I will check this option. Instead of replacing this tube coupling collet with the one on my old UM2+ I have ordered a new tube coupling collect and I will test it to see if this  is the reason for the abnormal behavour.

The bowden tube diameter is exactly the same of the one in the other UM2+ so I do not think that this is the issue...

Thank you very much ultiarjan!

[guillermo 0]

16 hours ago, esopalumpa said:

‣ Push the collet down

‣ insert the bowden and push it in with some force

‣ pull the collet up (with some force) while still pushing the bowden down

‣ insert the clip

 

The original clip is 1.4mm thick. I designed clips with 1.5 mm, 1.6 mm, 1.7 mm and 1.8 mm to increase tension on the collet if necessary.

Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,4mm.stl 3.35 MB · 1 download Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,5mm.stl 3.35 MB · 0 downloads Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,6mm.stl 3.34 MB · 0 downloads Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,7mm.stl 3.35 MB · 0 downloads Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,8mm.stl 3.35 MB · 1 download

Thank you for the stl files, esopalumpa! I will try them also.

[guillermo 0]

Hi!

I am very happy to share with you that after replacing the Bowden Tube, both tube coupling collets and both clips, the boeden tube remains inserted and has no longer been expulsed after  50 hours of continous use.

Thank you !

[anotherdayteach 0]

@guillermo I'm just running into the same issue. Two questions - when you replaced everything did you use one of the thicker clips? And, did you run into a minimum length issue with the Bowden tube? I've cut mine a few times since this has been happening over the past few days and I want to make sure the tube is still workable. Thanks!

[guillermo 0]

1 hour ago, anotherdayteach said:

@guillermo I'm just running into the same issue. Two questions - when you replaced everything did you use one of the thicker clips? And, did you run into a minimum length issue with the Bowden tube? I've cut mine a few times since this has been happening over the past few days and I want to make sure the tube is still workable. Thanks!

I replaced  the hole bowden tube system ( I ordered the BOWDEN PACK Ref #1696 ) with the originals blue clips. I think that one of the main reasons for this problem is a short tube. Therefore I think that cutting the tube is not a good idea. I will suggest you to change your bowden tube with a new one. I hope this may hepl you.

 

[anotherdayteach 0]

Thanks @guillermo!  I just ordered the replacement tubes.  Fingers crossed that solves the problem!

[ibengibson 2]

On 3/29/2020 at 4:34 PM, esopalumpa said:

‣ Push the collet down

‣ insert the bowden and push it in with some force

‣ pull the collet up (with some force) while still pushing the bowden down

‣ insert the clip

 

The original clip is 1.4mm thick. I designed clips with 1.5 mm, 1.6 mm, 1.7 mm and 1.8 mm to increase tension on the collet if necessary.

Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,4mm.stl 3.35 MB · 15 downloads Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,5mm.stl 3.35 MB · 10 downloads Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,6mm.stl 3.34 MB · 16 downloads Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,7mm.stl 3.35 MB · 12 downloads Ultimaker-3-bowdenclip-1,8mm.stl 3.35 MB · 12 downloads

 

[ibengibson 2]

I have been having the same issue.  New Bowden tubes had no effect.  I assume wear within the Bowden clamp..  I used the 1.6mm horseshoe stl provided and it is a fix.  Much appreciated.

[JC40 2]

@esopalumpa Thank you! I encountered the same issue with my UMS3 and ended aborting 4 prints. The 1.6mm horseshoe fix the problem. Thanks again for the resolution and stl files! I really appreciate. Now I am able to get back to my project.