Ultimaker Cura 4.7 is available!

[prof_west 1]

3 hours ago, nallath said:

Get our crap together? Excuse me?

 

 

Fair call, that was completely unnecessary and I apologise.

 

Quote

 on hardware that we don't sell or support.

 

You should talk to your marketing guys, because 'support' is explicitly used in relation to third party printers.

 

Quote

See the info on this issue: https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/issues/8229

...

So if you want to prevent issues like that, pleas use the beta and report these issues during the beta. 

 

Marketing again. The 'Easy to Use' tagline doesn't really jive with expecting people to jump on Github or install Beta versions.

 

In any case, thanks for the fix. I'll upgrade when the fix makes it to the production version.

[nallath 1,120]

2 hours ago, prof_west said:

You should talk to your marketing guys, because 'support' is explicitly used in relation to third party printers.

Is there anywhere specific where this is/was mentioned? I've not seen it so far (i would have said something about it if I did, since we simply can't provide that support!)

[prof_west 1]

11 minutes ago, nallath said:

Is there anywhere specific where this is/was mentioned? I've not seen it so far (i would have said something about it if I did, since we simply can't provide that support!)

 

First reference I could find quickly, on these very forums:

https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/14211-cura-faq/

 

"Which 3rd party printers are supported by Cura?

A complete list of supported 3rd party printers can be found here."

 

There are also several notes about not offering technical support for third party printers. I don't think that suggesting the software is 'not broken' really qualifies as technical support, your definition may vary.

 

And look, I appreciate that 3rd party printers might not be the #1 priority on a day-to-day development basis, but consider that Cura is the gatweay drug into the Ultimaker ecosystem. You must surely gain a huge portion of your sales from 3rd party people starting with cheap knockoff printers, using Cura, then specifically selecting an Ultimaker printer as their next step up because of their familiarity with Cura. That is certainly why I bought my Ultimaker printer, and why I have convinced many others to buy Ultimaker printers. That all goes away if 3rd party support is pushed too far to the background.

[KaraokeAmerica 3]

6 hours ago, nallath said:

pleas use the beta

 

First, thank you Ultimaker for providing such great software!

 

Second, where can one download the beta from? All I see on the download page is the regular one:

 

https://ultimaker.com/software/ultimaker-cura

 

If I go to the GitHub page for other releases I see beta versions, but only beta PRIOR to the stable releases so nothing past v4.7 stable.

 

https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/tags

 

Thanks!

[ahoeben 1,948]

1 minute ago, KaraokeAmerica said:

where can one download the beta from? All I see on the download page is the regular one

 

Well, that is because currently there is no beta version that is newer than the currently released version.

If the past releases are anything to go by, the next beta version is likely going to be released on about 1.5 - 2 months.

[KaraokeAmerica 3]

3 minutes ago, ahoeben said:

that is because currently there is no beta version that is newer than the currently released version

 

Got it. I misunderstood the original comment to mean that there was already a NEW beta released to address this issue.

 

Thanks!

[SandervG 1,521]

49 minutes ago, prof_west said:

First reference I could find quickly, on these very forums:

https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/14211-cura-faq/

 

"Which 3rd party printers are supported by Cura?

A complete list of supported 3rd party printers can be found here."

 

Thank you! That is an old one. I see the page it links to uses a more clever way of putting into words what we mean by saying 'Which third party printer brands are available in Ultimaker Cura?'. I will edit my post and replace the old sentence by that one. I'll take a look at the other Q&As as well..

 

Supporting those third party printers is just not possible for us to do because we don't have those printers. So we can't test anything. The best and most reliable thing we can do is keep the door open and allow for community (or manufacturer) contributions. We aim for everyone who uses our products to have a good and pleasant experience. 

[prof_west 1]

1 minute ago, SandervG said:

Supporting those third party printers is just not possible for us to do because we don't have those printers. So we can't test anything. The best and most reliable thing we can do is keep the door open and allow for community (or manufacturer) contributions. We aim for everyone who uses our products to have a good and pleasant experience. 

 

Understood. Although I really must stress how important it is that you try and make 3rd party users feel important, rather than just being relegated to the 1% as suggested by Nallath. Reiterating my personal 3d printing 'journey', I started with an Ender 3, and out of all the slicers I tried, Cura worked the best/easiest. This positive experience with Cura on a 3rd party printer directly lead me to buy an Ultimaker S3. Subsequently, my advice to others built on this experience has directly lead to at least four other S-series purchases. If PrusaSlicer had worked better with my Ender, all those sales would be lost to Prusa.

[nallath 1,120]

10 minutes ago, prof_west said:

 

Understood. Although I really must stress how important it is that you try and make 3rd party users feel important, rather than just being relegated to the 1% as suggested by Nallath. Reiterating my personal 3d printing 'journey', I started with an Ender 3, and out of all the slicers I tried, Cura worked the best/easiest. This positive experience with Cura on a 3rd party printer directly lead me to buy an Ultimaker S3. Subsequently, my advice to others built on this experience has directly lead to at least four other S-series purchases. If PrusaSlicer had worked better with my Ender, all those sales would be lost to Prusa.

Well, there is a reason why i fixed the bug. It's not like we don't care at all about what third party printers do / work with Cura. But well, there are hundreds of printers available in Cura. If we would need to test all of that, we'd need 20+ QA engineers. At a certain point, there is an end to the amount of money that Ultimaker is willing to invest into support third party printers. That value isn't zero, but it's obviously not the same as in our own printers.

I guess my frustration with all of this is that the bug was blatantly obvious to someone who had that configuration. But even though there was a beta build out there for 2.5 weeks, it wasn't spotted (because not enough people used it, I guess). Then a lot of other people start complaining that they are "being tricked into beta testing something" because there is a pretty annoying bug to them in the release.

A part of the value from supporting these third party printers stems from the goodwill / gateway that you describe. But a fairly significant part is also based on it helping us find issues that are generic for everyone. It's not that I ask people to run a complete testing plan or check every single feature they use. But a few percent of our users would just download and start the beta, slice a few things and maybe play with some of the new features, it would help a great deal.

I still strongly believe in an open source product that works for everyone. But it's really hard to do it. That's why I push so much on people using that beta. I desperately need the feedback from that in order provide what I want to provide; A stable release for everyone.

 

 

[KaraokeAmerica 3]

12 minutes ago, nallath said:

I desperately need the feedback from that in order provide what I want to provide; A stable release for everyone.

 

Have you considered changing the "update available" notice to pop up when a new beta release is available as well? Of course not everyone will do it, but I can tell you that the only reason I generally know there is an upgrade is from that popup. Even casually trolling for beta testers may pick up some volunteers that otherwise wouldn't even know about the betas. I didn't. Maybe make it an option (on by default) that allows users to be notified about beta release. If they don't want to know about them they can opt out of beta notifications.

[nallath 1,120]

2 hours ago, KaraokeAmerica said:

 

Have you considered changing the "update available" notice to pop up when a new beta release is available as well? Of course not everyone will do it, but I can tell you that the only reason I generally know there is an upgrade is from that popup. Even casually trolling for beta testers may pick up some volunteers that otherwise wouldn't even know about the betas. I didn't. Maybe make it an option (on by default) that allows users to be notified about beta release. If they don't want to know about them they can opt out of beta notifications.

I like that idea. Perhaps it's something that we should put in the first run wizard.

[KaySel 0]

Changed to 4.7 from 4.6.2. Using UM S3 with Nylon. Print Sequence setting will not show. Tried to restart and tick "show all" on and off. No effect, still not showing. Now, I have to costumize all visibilities again and still I cannot print in sequence. How come / Any fix for this? Thanks!

[KaySel 0]

24 minutes ago, KaySel said:

Changed to 4.7 from 4.6.2. Using UM S3 with Nylon. Print Sequence setting will not show. Tried to restart and tick "show all" on and off. No effect, still not showing. Now, I have to costumize all visibilities again and still I cannot print in sequence. How come / Any fix for this? Thanks!

Got it- Had to disable E2. Sorry.

[Ghene 24]

is there a way to go back to the old version of the app please?

 

[Ghene 24]

Oh, it seems that I can't even save profiles.

[KaraokeAmerica 3]

4 hours ago, Ghene said:

is there a way to go back to the old version of the app please?

 

 

You can just go to the download page and download the last version then install that one. That's what I did and it's back to normal. Each version installs to a different folder so they can run independently.

[Ghene 24]

11 minutes ago, KaraokeAmerica said:

 

You can just go to the download page and download the last version then install that one. That's what I did and it's back to normal. Each version installs to a different folder so they can run independently.

Thanks! Found it. Though, it did not have the default profiles. Just ones that I previously created.

[gkoury 0]

I installed 4.7 but it won't load.  It gets as far as the getting started page but doesn't go any further.  Iwas running 4.6 without problem on my Windows 10 Lenovo T429 but Cura 4.7 isn't

[Grenex 1]

I installed the update, but on my Creality CR10S Pro it does an auto bed level now at the start of each print.  How do I disable that?

Edited August 28, 2020 by Grenex

[Uldis 0]

Hello guys!

I upgraded yesterday to Cura 4.7 and noticed the head movement to the plate is extremely slow, leading to other problems (oozing and the inability to remove it all before it hits the plate and then this oozed material getting in the way)

Went and checked the Gcode and noticed that while previously the movement from home to the bed was (in V4.6.2):

G0 F3600 X34.252 Y-31.8 Z0.3

 

And now in V4.7 it places an extra line before that one:

G1 F600 Z1.3        <-----

G0 F3600 X-33.858 Y-32.05 Z1.3 (coordinates are not the same as it's a slightly different model and Z0 has been calibrated)

 

My question is: how to stop Cura from adding this extra (and slow) line?
Basically it's telling it to go slow to the bed Z position, and THEN it say ah, yeah, go fast, when it's already there? Nothing else was changed other than the V4.7 upgrade and as I say this makes my prints exceedingly slow and makes the oozing a big problem.

Hope to hear from you soon, thanks!

Uldis

[StarNamer 4]

On 8/27/2020 at 9:10 AM, nallath said:

Fix is already read to be tested -> https://github.com/Ultimaker/Uranium/pull/633

 

 

Does that mean there's an installation setup (or at least a binary) I can download and test?

 

Or do I have to clone the repository and build it myself?

 

Or does it still need merging?

[Grenex 1]

I installed the update, but on my Creality CR10S Pro it does an auto bed level now at the start of each print.  How do I disable that?
note that in my attached images, my Gcode shows that G29 auto level command, but my machine settings do not have that setup.

[StarNamer 4]

On 8/27/2020 at 7:29 PM, nallath said:

•  

 On 8/27/2020 at 5:17 PM, KaraokeAmerica said:

 

Have you considered changing the "update available" notice to pop up when a new beta release is available as well?

I like that idea. Perhaps it's something that we should put in the first run wizard.

 

I'd vote for that idea if you can do it. I only noticed the beta the day before the 'stable' release was available. Since the moment I ran it, I identified there was a problem, if I'd known about it before and given that you have made a fix so quickly, it would have been possible to fix it before the 'stable' release. I run Window Insider Preview and am quite ready to accept that a beta version will have the odd problem which the author would like to know about so they can fix it.

 

Update: a setting asking if users wanted to be notified of beta releases as well as new releases would allow those of us who are happy to help improve the program (and put up with a few 'rough edges') to be notified, while people who just want to use a stable app would only get notified when it was stable.

Edited August 30, 2020 by StarNamer
Additional comment

[Longtoke 25]

On 8/28/2020 at 12:00 AM, nallath said:

A part of the value from supporting these third party printers stems from the goodwill / gateway that you describe. But a fairly significant part is also based on it helping us find issues that are generic for everyone. It's not that I ask people to run a complete testing plan or check every single feature they use. But a few percent of our users would just download and start the beta, slice a few things and maybe play with some of the new features, it would help a great deal.

I still strongly believe in an open source product that works for everyone. But it's really hard to do it. That's why I push so much on people using that beta. I desperately need the feedback from that in order provide what I want to provide; A stable release for everyone.

 

 

Hello Nallath and everyone else here, I don't mean to derail to topic etc, but I felt the above quoted post might benefit from a reply. 

 

To give a slight background, I have 3 printers, an ender-3, a cr10 and a prusa i3. My first foray into the world of 3d printing was with my ender-3, back in 2017. It was my first introduction to Cura and Ultimaker in general as the software bundled with my ender-3  had a version of Cura with it. A great example of how 3rd party printers ( and by extension, support for them ) is not zero return for Cura developers. Without Creality choosing to bundle Cura with their product, I would not have found my way here, nor would I have ever looked at an Ultimaker printer.

 

Now i freely admit, Ultimaker printers are well outside my own price range, but not everyone is in the same boat as me. There is a level of free advertising being given just from a third party printer being bundled with Cura. One thing to note here, I only recently bought my cr10, and with it came creality's knock off version of Cura. I'm not sure why creality has opted for this other than possibly the next part of my post.

 

As to your wanting people to adopt beta's and test accordingly, to provide feedback to help pin issues before release versions become official, it's an admirable ideal that's key to open source development. Sadly, as an end user my own experiences over the years have been mixed to say the least. These days i'm very reluctant to even update using official releases, let alone a beta solely due to issues cropping up far too often that are casually dismissed as "well it's not an Ultimaker printer so...".

 

While I respect changes are often required in code to incorporate new features / fix old issues / support new Ultimaker products, the regular breaking / removal of printer profiles etc gets old really fast. I mean no offence when i say this, just stating how it appears as a 3rd party printer user, but deliberate ignorance and planned obsolescence are a few phrases that come to mind. Now I completely understand and respect it's not anywhere near that simple with respect to coding etc, but as an end user it gets extremely frustrating to update Cura with a mindset of "Let's see what they broke this week". 

 

Some of the changes seem questionable to say the least, one great example is how materials are managed these days. The original version of Cura that shipped with my ender 3 was simple enough that I could make a custom material ( in this case a simple PLA+ ) configuration, which was easily usable across multiple default print profiles ( i.e: standard, draft etc ). It took me 3 minutes as someone completely new to 3d printing and Cura to setup for my new PLA+, and all the default setting print profiles were there to use and worked great. These days ??.......I have tried countless times to do custom materials while retaining the default print profiles with no success, leaving me no choice other than using the default materials, some of which still also result in the "not supported" message and lack of default print profiles. The work around I've adopted is to change the temp settings within the print profiles themselves while using a default material of basic PLA. Whatever the reasoning was behind this change, as an end user it feels like a push to migrate to a supported material on a supported printer just "because".

 

Then there's things like changes to existing printer profiles that make no sense,  which has also resulted in "bugs" (missing ender printer nozzles anyone ?). When my printer hasn't changed in 3 years, why have changes impacted the profile within Cura so frequently ?.....again on the outside as an end user, it seems to be a push to try and have 3rd party printers fall into obsolescence. 

 

TL;DR - Updating has numerous frequent pitfalls, which when then discussed are met with "not an ultimaker printer so..." mixed with the vibe that using a 3rd party printer is offensive to some, ending in a "why bother updating" feeling. The way things currently sit, I wouldn't ever touch a beta release without planning on spending a day or two screwing with it to try and fix what breaks, only to have to revert to a previous version so I can continue printing. I'll admit not every update is like this, but when it happens with such frequency, people naturally become apprehensive or avoid it entirely. 

 

In conclusion, I apologize if I have caused offence as that was not my intent and I freely admit there's many aspects of coding and software development I myself am ignorant to, but if you want people to test beta's more, the way things are done currently isn't going help. Just because there's no direct funding on paper to show executive's doesn't mean Ultimaker has no net benefit in supporting 3rd party printers. I've often said i'd gladly pay for a version of Cura that wasn't so ignorant to 3rd party printers, when it  works reliably, Cura is a fantastic product and outstanding example of what open source can be.

 

It would be great if Cura could remain as intuitive and reliable as it once was. I  dream of the day I can afford an Ultimaker printer, hopefully by then my existing printers won't have become incompatible with Cura for "reasons". I guess i'll always have the older versions to work with. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Longtoke
spelling etc......OCD is evil.

[burtoogle 513]

2 hours ago, Longtoke said:

The way things currently sit, I wouldn't ever touch a beta release without planning on spending a day or two screwing with it to try and fix what breaks, only to have to revert to a previous version so I can continue printing. I'll admit not every update is like this, but when it happens with such frequency, people naturally become apprehensive or avoid it entirely.

 

If users of 3rd party printers aren't willing to try the beta releases, they should expect trouble when the releases arrive as UM do not have the resources to test on anything but their own products. Yes, Cura is supplied FOC but maybe people need to be willing to pay a price for it, the price is that they play an active role in the testing of new releases.