Ultimaker 2 Dual extrusion

[nallath 1,120]

Nozzle lift will remove most of the need for a valve as far as I know. The nozzle lift also has the added benefit of the nozzle no longer being able to knock your print over (allowing reliable single nozzle printing).

But yeah, nozzle lifting would mean that you need to be able to move the nozzles reliably. I do not see any software constraints that would cause more problems. The software could (and needs to be) improved, but it's not the bottle neck.

 

[chuck-yanke 10]

I guess if a retro fit is not possible for a U2 then can we expect a new printer with dual extruders?

[nallath 1,120]

You shouldn't expect anything If there is anything to learn from all this, its probably that. We do really see the point of having it, but that doesn't mean that it will be possible.

 

[pws 0]

You shouldn't expect anything If there is anything to learn from all this, its probably that. We do really see the point of having it, but that doesn't mean that it will be possible.

 

Well nallath, at least we might expect ...

...

By the way nallath, which output pin is used for switching the leds?

Cheers,

Peter

 

[fabi580 0]

@nallath

Martin Hillenbrand has build this:

is this the way to go??

 

[nudelmannrichter 14]

nallath,

thank you for your open words. Is it possible to condense what you wrote to the answer of a simple question:

Is a dual extrusion add on/upgrade kit for the UM2 still planned and coming from Ultimaker or not?

I think the community appreciates all the R&D work but it is time for clear yes or no, so everybody knows what up and that's it.

Thank you!

 

[SandervG 1,521]

nallath,

thank you for your open words. Is it possible to condense what you wrote to the answer of a simple question:

Is a dual extrusion add on/upgrade kit for the UM2 still planned and coming from Ultimaker or not?

 

I think I will also be able to give you an official answer on this one:

No.

 

[nudelmannrichter 14]

Sander,

thank you very much. Now we have clearness. Keep up your good work. Still love the printer!

 

[nallath 1,120]

@nallath

 

is this the way to go??

 

Yeah, but you don't see the rest of the head so i'm kinda afraid that it's really heavy. But it does look awesome. If martin wants to work on this more, he should contact us

 

[flubberducky 0]

I came across this "Ultimaker 2 UM2 dual extrusion kit" today, but it appears to simply be the current design with an extruder nozzle/hot end mounted into the factory prepped space.

Here's the link: http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/3-d-printer-parts-ultimaker-2-um2-dual-extrusion/216552327.html

It doesn't appear to address the nozzle-lifting issue, nor perhaps any of the other issues that Team Ultimaker have run into during their R&D. Does anyone out there know anything about this unit, and if it works?? If it does "work", does Cura even support dual extrusion??

Thanks for any info regarding this...

 

[IRobertI 520]

That just looks like China clones slapped together. Looks like they cloned an older design as well judging by the gap between the collets and the head. This is how Ultimaker wanted to be able to do it (just add another identical nozzle to the one it came with originally), but it failed. In short, don't buy.

 

[nudelmannrichter 14]

crappy bullshit... doesn't work. I would also bother to buy for spares as I am not sure if quality is r8

 

[nallath 1,120]

It very much apears not to do it, which is the entire problem. If you don't do it, you knock prints over or ooze into your print.

 

[mutrax 5]

Hey,

Ive been on the phone with um support for an unrelated issue (damn TC's!) and asked about the dual extrusion kit. The very kind lady confirmed to that there will be no dual extrusion kit for the um2. But she gave me a great idea!

How about UM share their R&D findings with us; maybe we can come up with a good concept?

 

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

I don't think this will happen. Mainly out of the reason the key elements of the troubles are well known in the meantime:

 

• thermal troubles at the hotend when both nozzles are fully heated (e.g. for ABS)
  
• print quality not good enough to stick the label 'Ultimaker' on it
  
• second nozzle hits already printed regions
  

There are good concepts for a properly working dual extrusion. See e.g. Foehnsturm's recent work on the dual extrusion and his earlier work on mechanically rectracting hotends.

http://reprap.me/front-page-show/diamond-hotend.html seems to be a promising approach to me as well, at least for materials printed at about the same temperature.

I expect a working dual extrusion for the UM2 within a year. But it wont come from Ultimaker but from the community as e.g. the Olsson heater block for the UM2.

 

[fnorkn 2]

Hey guys, could you help me out?

I try to compile a 2 extruder firmware, using Arduino 1.6.0 ide and the vanilla source tree Ultimaker2Marlin-master.

Then I set #define EXTRUDERS 2 in the configuration.h

Verify button says:

 

Wire\utility\twi.c.o: In function `__vector_39':C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\hardware\arduino\avr\libraries\Wire\utility/twi.c:364: multiple definition of `__vector_39'UltiLCD2_low_lib.cpp.o:C:\Users\jeroen\AppData\Local\Temp\build7017903479252515816.tmp/UltiLCD2_low_lib.cpp:184: first defined here/Arduino/hardware/tools/avr/bin/../lib/gcc/avr/4.8.1/../../../../avr/bin/ld: Disabling relaxation: it will not work with multiple definitionscollect2: error: ld returned 1 exit statusError compiling.

 

Edited May 20, 2015 by chin

[ultiarjan 1,223]

first off all use arduino 1.03 or 1.06, here's an explanation on the modifications you have to make, delete some lines from the twi.c file and some other stuff. I'm not expert but I followed Tinkergnome's info and was able to compile UM2 firmware.

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/6436-more-information-during-print/?p=96906

Maybe I'm totally wrong here but is the UM2 firmware not already default ok for dual extruders? what do you want to change?

 

[ultiarjan 1,223]

and @ fnorkn; it can be helpfull if you update your profile with the type of printer(s) you have and your location ...

 

[fnorkn 2]

Cheers thanks.

Its an UM2, and I am 75% done building a custom watercooled dual printhead.

I thought the code was ready for a second extruder.

 

[fnorkn 2]

I used the 1.0.6 version, and is seems that you need to delete some code from

C:\Program Files (x86)\Arduino\libraries\Wire\utility\twi.c

to make it all work.

However, the function SIGNAL(TWI_vect) seems to be renamed to  ISR(TWI_vect). TinkerGnome found that out already.

After deleting the function (Administrator mode in Windows) I end up with a hex file:

Marlin.cpp.hex

I will report back if there are any interesting developments... (could take weeks ;-)

Edited May 14, 2015 by Guest
removed HTML tags which made comment unreadable

[nigel-johnson 1]

At the risk of getting flamed I thought I'd add my oar.

I have read most of the previous 14 pages and it has been stated that the larger population of users print PLA, and want support material or a second colour. Most of the problems around this seem to be with the energy you pump in to each hot end and can effectively suck away from the support material, so keeping cooler is preferable - PLA and PVA both print cool? PLA and PLA both run at the same temperature. So it seems that a fair portion of the user base could be appeased quite easily?

I can understand people wanting a blindingly fast machine, that prints the finest detail in every material with no need for support and in multiple colours, oh and all for under £100 but that is never going to happen. The UM2 printer is awesomely awesome at what it does, so it come as no surprise that there will be a compromise if you want to push one of the boundaries something else will have to give a little.

As I mentioned, the UM2 is awesomely printing with one print head pretty much across the board.

Why couldn't you adjust the mount and put 2 print heads on separated by a heat guard?

 

• Immediately you loose print volume, but the UM2 has oodles of volume. Knocking off 40mm in any/all directions is not ideal, but there is still loads, and I don't recall ever really taxing the volume - I know some do - compromise though.
  
• Oooooze - printing cooler addresses this to a great extent, yes this will probably mean slower as well. I don't know much about PVA but I seem to be able to keep PLA in the nozzle for a good 30 minutes at 190C when retracted. (found out by accident)
  
• Quality? I've seen this mentioned but no pics. I get lumps on a print because the combing didn't kick in and the printhead chose to run over my print, but I don't understand how much worse this would be since PLA on PLA is what happens now, PLA on PVA is irrelevant and PVA on PLA will dissolve off.
  

Instead of using a generic adjustable wrench, why not use the spanner that fits specifically. Yeah, it'll be expensive to have all the options or the limited option choice may not suit, but people are crying out for something.

Is there truly no scenario that you can put something together for, stick your name on it, and have Cura support it out of the box?

Anyway it seems like PVA is a pain to use so why bother

 

[valentt 0]

I do understand the frustration, but as i've said many times before; Show me a printer that can do the dual material well. I've not seen one. There is a reason for this. People have unrealistic expectations of dual extrusion. This is maybe caused by what Ultimaker has been saying about it and maybe by a lot of other people trying to sell more printers. But none of this changes the fact that it just doesn't work.

 

Hi,

thank you for your reply and insight.

Have you seen/tested Stratasys Mojo and Wanhao's Duplicator 4S printers? I can only judge by few youtube videos that show them in action, but from those videos these two 3D printers look like can handle dual extruder prints.

 

[nallath 1,120]

I havent seen them in action, but in those cases, their solutions are probably patented. They also have the option of spending much more on precision components (due to the overal higher cost of the machine).

 

[bob-hepple 59]

For what its worth The Mojo is a £7,000 pound printer and you have to use there Filaments its expensive.

I have seen the wanhao duplicator 4 in action on a bench front of me at the London 3d Print Show in 2014, and it Works??? BUT not sure if it is Chinese if it is how long will it work for and whats the support like???

I also heard the PVA is a pain and Leapfrog Creator HS had been using HIPS (I think thats the term) but not seen any results.

 

[david-ganon 2]

hi everyone.

i want to buy this:

 

i think i can print my own mounting bracket so it will fit to the my um2

i am allredy printed one so my stepper motor can be placed above the nozze and i print with it a lot !!!

i prints all kind of materials.

i think that i can print with that nozzle 2 materials, the um2 are ready for that, right ??!!!

and, do you think i can print even with 3 ???? if not...

maybe i can buy the rumba motherboard and place it on the um2?

thanks, want to hear what you have to say