Ultimaker 2 Dual extrusion

[Blizz 53]

If I order an UM2 now, will I be able to upgrade it with a secound nozzles later on?

 

I sure would hope so, it's the whole reason I bought it already... Hoping to have accumulated enough experience with the one by the time the kit would come out It is what they claim on the site after all.

 

[manapdp 0]

Thanks for your evaluation Blizz.

I would like someone from the UM-team to underline your conclusion. I will need the dual extrusion for my projects and I cannot afford a false investment.

Best regards and thanks in advance

Manap

 

[Daid 306]

I would like someone from the UM-team to underline your conclusion. I will need the dual extrusion for my projects and I cannot afford a false investment.

 

In all honesty, we will do our very best. But, if you are 100% sure that you need dual-extrusion in the very near future, you might want to look at other options.

But I have no idea who really has 100% working dual-extrusion. As I've heard and seen bad things from the Rep2X. The Builder from 3dprinter4u.nl has dual-extrusion with 1 nozzle, which is cool, but might be problematic if you want to do 2 materials. Other then that, good people with nice machines. Leapfrog, don't even touch that one. The Orcabot-dual is actually pretty cool. Maybe that's the one you might want to look at. It's using 2 independent moving heads to do dual-extrusion. Cube-X puts you at the mercy of their software and expensive cartridges. The Ultimaker Origonal has a dual-extrusion kit upgrade option. Which also isn't perfect, but does a pretty good job.

(Other then that, there are a whole bunch of Replicator clone machines which are pretty much Rep2X machines without the Makerbot name on it. So they have the same issues)

 

[manapdp 0]

@ Daid

Thanks for your detailed response.

I will check out the options you pointed out right away. Since you are planning to create the dual extrusion kit for UM2, I still consider it an option - even with the possible delay in availability.

Best regards

Manap

 

[rimb05 3]

Daid,

Have you guys looked into using Vespel as a material for the insulator, instead of PTFE? It's what Stratasys uses as an inlet for their FDM heads. It's got excellent insulating properties.

Also, some of the issues you're having might be mitigated by software. What if you automatically cooled one head down before printing with the other one? It wouldn't need to cool down completely, just be at a "standby" temperature, until it needs to be used. This would slow things down when doing dual extrusion prints, but for certain use cases, it would be just fine (for example, printing support).

Since no manufacturer has perfect dual-extrusion working, even this kind of interim solution would be much better than nothing I think.

Rim

 

[marcel-klapwijk 0]

If a problem with the insulator is handled by the firmware or slicer, than it probably would increase the amount of warranty claims by people using custom firmwares and slicers. Which would be not so good publicity, in a place (the internet) where people start complaining after waiting for 6 week and 4 hours on a product with a 6-8 week lead time...

 

[drato 0]

Hey guys I am no chemist or physicist and still dont know enough about 3D Printing Tech so bare with me if the following is a stupid idea:

The lotus effect used in teflon I think could now also be achieved with other more heat resistant materials by using nano 3D Printing. Why not replace the teflon parts by ceramics or any other material with even higher temp resistance.

Dont know whether there are any other reasons to use teflon or this nano printing is financially possible etc.etc.etc,

just a thing that came to my mind.

 

[nallath 1,120]

We came to the same conclusion. I'm not quite sure what the current 'best' fix is, but I do know that ceramics was a total bust. The resistance of the PLA with the ceramics was just too high.

 

[Labern 774]

At work we Teflon coat alloy to use as seal heads to seal plastics. The Teflon prevents the plastic sticking to the seal head and We have Teflon coated steel and bronze etc as well. It's an industrial coating but similar to the coating on frying pans.

The Teflon is sprayed on then baked but it can withstand temps up to 600 degrees.

You could coat ceramic or another suitable material to lower the resistance.

[jean-baptiste 0]

Hi everybody,

I give you some idea... link

 

[drato 0]

You could coat ceramic or another suitable material to lower the resistance.

 

That is what I was talking about and I thought a little too far into future by directly printing ceramics with nano printers, i have seen articles about nano printing and they were able to e.g. reduce the size of electric currents to a scale where your eye would only see a clear plastic sheet, that would produce enough energy for an led. But I don't have that link anymore.

Hopefully soon it may be possible to even print nano ceramics structures to create a lotus effect directly by structuring the material.

But that's just for future dreaming

But coating ceramics with Teflon would be an idea, I guess it would also make the design a bit more expensive though.

[drato 0]

 

Nano printer from 3DSystems

[drato 0]

Maybe this lotus coating for glass and ceramics is interesting

 

 

[drato 0]

This is a pretty cool tech overview on the lotus effect used in technologies

 

[nallath 1,120]

The main problem with these nano prints is that it's not yet scalable. I very much doubt if they are able to produce the quanitites that we need.

We are looking for a coating, but a coating on a ceramic part doesn't really add anything when compared to a metal part with a coating. In all cases we looked at, the metal parts are significantly cheaper (several orders of magnitude cheaper actually).

 

[jean-baptiste 0]

And an isolation with aerogel ?

 

[IRobertI 520]

Isn't aerogel really expensive? And also very brittle.

 

[jean-baptiste 0]

Prices have really dropped!

We can imagine a piece into two parts, an inner and an outer and between the aerogel for example. This in itself is very brittle but if it is enveloped in something no worries!

 

[conz 0]

Isn't aerogel really expensive? And also very brittle.

 

There is Airloy it has nearly the same thermal conductivity, but it's not brittle.

 

And for aerogel, you can DIY.

"Applied Science" did this:

 

 

[jean-baptiste 0]

Maybe that is a good idea ?

 

[tomasrey88 0]

What's with all these high tech, Expen$ive solutions? What about the obvious? Just bolt on the 2nd nozzle off to the side outside the bracket that was meant to hold it. In other words, don't put it next to the 1st extruder. Put some space between the two extruders. You don't need to overengineer it. Just make it work. I REALLY want to buy an Ultimaker with dual extrusion. Thanks :-P

 

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

There is an Ultimaker with dual extrusion: the Ultimaker Original.

I don't think that the guys at Ultimaker are overengineering... they just want to make sure it really works when it leaves their house, which is the right way to deal with problems IMHO.

 

[stevegt 1]

Hi everybody,

I give you some idea... link

 

What Jean-Baptiste is illustrating here is what I have in mind -- adding a second heat sink and a second fan to the front side of the existing head design. It means having to replace all of the existing aluminum parts, but should solve both the dual-extruder overheating as well as the single-extruder teflon cooling issues Kris discusses.

 

[brett-bellmore 1]

Hey, we're currently doing our capital budget for next year. Assuming it becomes available, can I have an approximate number for how much you'll charge for upgrading the current UM 2 to dual printhead? Just a ballpark number for budgeting.

The first one has paid for itself already, in just a couple months. We'll likely be getting a 2nd printer, too. Don't want to start experimenting with mods to the first, until we have a backup.

 

[IRobertI 520]

I don't think anyone actually knows what it will cost since it's still being developed. The dual extrusion kit for the UM1 is €195,00 so expect that at least.