Ultimaker 2 Dual extrusion

[waterspring 0]

The only news I'm intersested in is WHEN the second printhead will be available for the ultimaker 2 !

It was annouced since last year but nothing happens !

The technical problems related on the forums is not of my concern !

It seems that Ultimaker has started to loose distance from his competitors and I begin to regret my acquisition of the Ultimaker 2 !

The thing that is really annoying is that you promise dual head availability everywhere on the net to sale the UM2, and now they explain us how it is so difficult to implement this feature, and this is not correct when you look at the sale price of thi printer!

That's my point of view.

 

 

[nallath 1,120]

A lot of things happend, which we've tried to be clear about (See this topic, and others). So in that regard, the technical problems are your concern; If they are not fixed, you won't have a good product. If you really, really want dual extrusion, buy the original (as the original is way more suited for experimentation & modding anyway).

On the topic of distance; I've yet to see a consumer grade printer that does dual extrusion well.

 

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

Uhhmmm... Nallath... what are your definitions of 'well' for a dual extrusion? :?:

Would you call this well or just still ####ty (dual extrusion on my UM1 with quite some tricks and tweaking)

 

[macua85 52]

Wow that is an excellent print. Care to share your setup so we can aim for the same quality (in dual um1 extruded thread)?

[nallath 1,120]

It's one of the better I've seen, but it still has some flaws. I do think that this model is relatively easy to print with dual extrusion. If there is bridging between two colors, it tends to go quite worse.

 

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

So, you're one of the people never satisfied until it is perfect... just like me...

Bridging between two colors... you mean to printing with one color and then printing the bridge layer with the other color?

 

[DidierKlein 729]

I can understand why people get disappointed of the dual extrusion kit being postponed, but seriously i think that Ultimaker is making a good decision to find something that works really good instead of delivering something that works like crap...

Ok dual extrusion is a very usefull feature but you can continue printing (very good) without it

 

[iconicjamie 0]

I am very frustrated with this... i purchased my machine on the fact that twin extrusion would be coming around the second quarter of the year. Maybe naughty of my re seller to claim such a time scale but even still i am starting to wonder if my money would have been better spent else where an i'm getting severely limited on what i can offer when competing businesses have twin extrusion capability.

if i run my business this way without ever drawing a line in the sand and aim for a completion date i would never win any business.

WE NEED A DATE ULTIMAKER!! or don't tempt us with the dream of twin head printing and wait until it is completed and works before announcing it.

 

[nallath 1,120]

@Dim3nsioneer: Yup.

There are reasons why it was announced (and as far as I can tell, it was only announced in a single youtube comment, but thats besides the point) and why it's not released, but what has happened is in the past. Nothing we do will change that.

Simply put; don't expect it soon. I'm quite against shipping a poor product (do note; I'm ' just' a software engineer, it's not my call) and I don't think it's smart to move resources from other equally or even more important projects to dual extrusion, just because a vague promise was made quite a while ago.

I do understand that this sucks and I agree. This isn't a nice situation for anyone. But as far as drawing lines in the sand; If we changed our priorities every time someone was disappointed with the speed of things, we would not win any business either.

 

[cor3ys 28]

(and as far as I can tell, it was only announced in a single youtube comment, but thats besides the point)

just because a vague promise was made quite a while ago.

Dual extrusion was advertised on the product page when first released, just like the WIFI is as future upgradable, Also sander promoted duel extrusion at the 3d print show (London) last year to me and said it would be here in first quarter 2014 and showed me duel extrusion printed parts..

It is also advertised on the FAQ page for the UM2 that it will be here in late 2014 (estimated)

https://www.ultimaker.com/pages/support/faq/ultimaker-2-faq

Don't seem vague to me

But do agree it has to be a working upgrade and not half baked...

 

[nallath 1,120]

I stand corrected then. But all dual extrusion printed parts you saw were made with an Original. We don't have a working setup with the UM2.

 

[conz 0]

I hope the big announcement is not a new UM3.

The promised dual head was one reason to choose the UM2 for me, too.

If there is no working prototype yet, than it will take a very long time until we have the dual head in our hands. (testing, more testing with beta users, production, shipping),

I have the bad feeling, that the dual head for UM2 will never come. That would be a huge disappointment for me. :(

 

[nallath 1,120]

There are people working on this, it's not like this is a project that isn't getting enough love.

 

[solid-print-3d 30]

As they say here in the States, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." That is, as customers, we complain, and as a business, Ultimaker applies the grease. I really hate to complain... it's just not my style, but in this case I have to. The Ultimaker 2 was clearly designed for dual extruder use. The FAQ page lists the second extruder as coming out July (now Late 2014). I believe it was listed on the actual UM2 product page at one point. All of this points to one thing, customers expect a second extruder available soon. What's to stop Ultimaker from simply changing the "Late 2014" to "Spring "2015"? It's already been done once, "Mid 2014". Don't get me wrong, I just bought my second UM2. I am happy with the machines performance... happy enough to buy a second, and soon, a 3rd UM2. Print quality and speed were major factors in placing another order, but the second extruder is also a determining factor. I realize that it's still early to be complaining about expecting a second extruder when the release date has been moved to "Late 2014", but reading all these comments about problems, delays, "we never said we'd have a second head" -paraphrasing , has concerned me enough to post this.... so, I say to you Ultimaker Squeak ... squeak ...squeak, time for some grease .

P.S. I don't agree with most other people here when they say they'll basically wait indefinitely for the 2nd extruder as long as it works when it's shipped. But that's just me Keep up the great work Ultimaker

 

[Titus 170]

The team, you, me, everyone wants it, wants it to function like it should, and wants it as soon as possible. This isn't going to happen faster then it will, and you have to be patient. It's a shame you bought an UM2 expecting dual extruder now, but it will come.

I want it to be out of beta for UM1 *did someone say 2 announcements 18th of Sept?*

 

[Daid 306]

The technical problems related on the forums is not of my concern !

 

The in all honesty, don't look in the forums. As this is where we (including the R&D team) talk about stuff that is actually happening. The good and the bad, we're honest here, we tell when we screw up. We tell when new things are happening. We show off beta things from time to time.

 

[nallath 1,120]

There is room in the head for another extruder. That doesn't mean it works if you simply slap another one in. That's exactly the (naive) mistake we made.

 

[3poro 9]

I think the comments about Dim3nsioneer's print are descriptive. One sees flaws, another goes "wow". The visions for dual extrusion vary quite a bit, as it can be used for so many different things. As Ultimaker has encountered some surprising problems, I think it would make sense to start from the very basics - as it would also help to understand what the primary expectations by Ultimaker users actually are.

I, for instance, would be happy to use 2 extruders even one at the time. I'm not the only one who would like to use different nozzle sizes (see for instance http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/7150-extra-ultimaker%C2%B2-nozzle/), but the UM2 nozzle is pretty tricky to change. Already having the possibility to define which extruder is used would be a good improvement for me.

If Ultimaker wants to keep on developing dual extrusion to the point where everybody says it's brilliant - it will be a very long way... As some say, perfect is THE enemy of good.

 

[nallath 1,120]

We know; but the point is that it must be able to heat both heads at the same time (or at least; have one at 210 and one at it's standby temp of ~180) and still be able to print. As most of our users print with PLA, this must work with PLA. Due to a whole slew of problems; we've not been able to get this to work reliably.

Getting one hot-end to work and the other being stand by is reasonably easy.

 

[3poro 9]

We know; but the point is that it must be able to heat both heads at the same time (or at least; have one at 210 and one at it's standby temp of ~180) and still be able to print. As most of our users print with PLA, this must work with PLA. Due to a whole slew of problems; we've not been able to get this to work reliably.

Getting one hot-end to work and the other being stand by is reasonably easy.

 

Your statement "...it must be able to..." is not accurate. It would be nice - or even important - yes, but already the "reasonably easy" would serve many people. I spent less than a minute on Google:

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/6548-how-to-modify-machine-a-um2-nozzle-to-08mm/

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/6268-tweaking-the-um2-nozzle-for-better-extrusion/

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/6557-help-with-drilling-out-nozzle/

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/3458-how-to-switch-nozzles-for-the-um2/

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/5643-does-this-nozzle-fits-the-um2/

I know there are dozens of other posts on the topic as well. You just need to open the can of worms

 

[nallath 1,120]

It is accurate, as that's the target we aim for. What some people here want is the ability to use multiple nozzle sizes, for which two hot ends is a solution. Swappable hot-ends could also be a solution for this.

We are not developing the dual extrusion with multiple nozzle sizes as main goal. We're developing it so you can print multiple colors at the same time, use it for solvable support material, etc.

 

[3poro 9]

It is accurate, as that's the target we aim for.

 

It is naturally your decision whether the compromise is made on schedule, functionality - or both. Now at least the schedule is compromised.

Don't get me wrong - I'm also eager to get some of the more advanced possibilities of dual extrusion into use. Solvable support material would be fantastic. Two-color prints, meh...

 

[gr5 2,172]

Solvable support material would be fantastic. Two-color prints, meh...

 

Yes!!! That's the most important feature of dual head for me - dissolvable support materials.

 

[IRobertI 520]

Let's reason about this logically for a second. Do we think that Ultimaker want to release a dual extrusion upgrade and sell it? I would think, yes, absolutely. Now, do we think that they want to deal with the shit storm that will likely ensue if the upgrade is just "good enough for some people" on release? I'd say, probably not...

Should the design have been correct from the start? Of course it should have, but shit happens and here we are. It sucks, but trust me, they are working on this.

 

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

I absolutely agree with Robert. Some of you might expect Ultimaker to put everything they have for engineering manpower into the dual extrusion issue. Despite the fact that doubling the people does not split the necessary time for a solution in half it would be a very bad strategy for a company in a fast changing field of technology.