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Posted · The crossflow fan approach

hey guys,

how have your experiences been after a while of using crossflow? I see that Duesentrieb experienced one side of the print looking worse then the other. Did you use the UBIS style setup, or maybe there's much blocking the airflow?

I'm currently running a giant centrifugal fan hooked up to flexible hoses, delivering the air to the nozzle area, but thinking of switching to crossflow.

What about 2 crossflow fans, installed across the platform?

 

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    I've been using the crossflow fan since I started this topic. I think it's working very well for about 98% of possible geometries. Almost evrything I posted in the gallery was printed with this setup. However, I only print PLA, ABS might be a different story.

    What I really like about it, is that you get rid of all the bulk on the printhead. It even provides enough airflow to use actively cooled hotends without an attached fan.

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    I don't think using two crossflow fans is a very good idea.. The idea of the crossflow fan is to get a laminar airflow across the build area, then downwards at the wall, back across the base and up towards the crossflow fan. If you put in another fan, you could break this circle and generate a non-laminar ( = turbulent) airflow that might do more harm than good. Especially if you need to contain heated air within the printer.

    Just a thought - maybe it works just fine, I never tried it...

    Btw. my crossflow setup is not tested yet (I'm getting used to that sentence...). Still working out the final details of my custom build.

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    i only print PLA, and from my experiences too much air never hurt- unless you think the turbulent airflow will actually introduce turbulances in laid plastic?

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Turbulences can cause the airflow to cease (at least partly) or become unstable. But without doing a simulation this is very difficult to quantify or prove.

    The crossflow solution works well mostly because it generates air circulation inside of the printer, with minimal "heat leakage" through the open top (!). If you interrupt that, you could get worse results even though there's more fans (especially if you only have a 100W heatbed and not a 200W silicone heater). More fans doesn't mean better cooling - it's a good concept that means good cooling.

    I'd rather try adding a shroud to the hotend that directs some of the airflow to the dead spots behind the nozzle (viewed from the crossflow fan). No need to add a fan, just some "blade" to redirect the air.

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Is anyone using a crossflow fan that can be PWM'd? The Silverstone ones I've been using for the past few months are fantastic at constant full blast for PLA and XT, but I would like to be able to turn them down for using materials which have worse layer adhesion like ABS and PET+.

    Suggestions?

     

    Use an RC low pass filter. The PWM is 30kHz, so just make sure 1/RC is less than about 10,000. Also, you probably want to use a small resistor (maybe 1 ohm or smaller, depending on fan current) and larger capacitor ( 100 uC ought to do the trick, but bigger wouldn't hurt.)

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Hi, this post it's awesome. I was looking for the best posible pla fan and this rocks. I'll buy an QG030-198/14 24v and connect it to my UM+. I see JonnyBischof already used this model, any housing stl you could share? Or maybe just a photo or your setup? Pretty please? :D

    Thanks for this post!

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Well ... I'm still building that damn thing :p

    The QG is a very good choice - the size is pretty much exactly the same as the build platform (198mm width vs. 204mm of the UMO), and the build quality is great (Papst...).

    I'm still working on my printer's gantry, but have some ideas about how to integrate the crossflow fan optimally. But none of it has made it into reality just yet.

    As for the housing: My design is still very crude in that aspect - need to get the main features working first before moving on to the details.

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Super thanks. I'll get on the design as soon it arrives. The pdf isn't really good to get a good design until it arrives.

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Carefull with the QG030-198/14 and UMO+. It worked for arround 5mins but when doing tests of positioning suddenly the power stuck on maximun and now my brand new umo+ fan power it's stuck. I have place a ticket to see what are my options but I suppose I will have to start searching for a new mainboard.

    So carefull with pluging non standard fans on an umo+ (um2 board).

    Btw this model blows a lot of hair. Even onthe lowest setting. It was (when it did work) working nicely. I even designed a casing (very crude). If anyone need it just pm (it's like a hanger that allows you move it a bit to make a beta test with it. For my the crossflow planit's dead (I won't be plugging any weird fans on my umo+ if the resoult it's a fast board death).

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Good advice! I completely forgot to mention that...

    The QG30 draws over 600 mA which is WAY too much for the UMO electronics to handle. The standard fan is more like 50mA.

    I'm using custom electronics which are in the making right now.

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Carefull with the QG030-198/14 and UMO+. It worked for arround 5mins but when doing tests of positioning suddenly the power stuck on maximun and now my brand new umo+ fan power it's stuck. I have place a ticket to see what are my options but I suppose I will have to start searching for a new mainboard.

    So carefull with pluging non standard fans on an umo+ (um2 board).

    Btw this model blows a lot of hair. Even onthe lowest setting. It was (when it did work) working nicely. I even designed a casing (very crude). If anyone need it just pm (it's like a hanger that allows you move it a bit to make a beta test with it. For my the crossflow planit's dead (I won't be plugging any weird fans on my umo+ if the resoult it's a fast board death).

     

    When something like that happened on my UMO board, all I had to do was replace the transistor; though that doesn't do anything about how much current the fan draws.

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Yeah I'll try to do the same but the UMO+/UM2 board it's more complex and it needs a propper soldering station. So far or that works or I'll have to crawl on the chineseshops

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    You should be able to get most SMD parts off the board using solder wick (that's the flat copper wire used to suck up excess solder from the joints).

    I usually just put the soldering iron to the joint, then first add some more solder (!) before wicking it off again.

    Try getting the parts off one leg after another.

    It's possible to rip away the pad with the component, but it's worth a try before you just throw it away...

    If you're good with the Dremel, you can also cut the part off the board. Just don't hit the part too hard or you'll rip it away along with the pads. Instead take it apart like if you were sanding it away. Make sure never to hit the board itself.

    The component's remains can easily be wicked off.

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Well the think it's that I can print, with the fans on ofc. The problem it's that they stay on all the time. Since right now I really need to keep printing I need to find less deadly alternatives XD. What you say seems like a nice idea, I even saw some videos on youtube that show that procedure. Now I need to find the exact same component and see if my friend it's up to the task :S I wonder since I will have to change the component if it would be worth a try to place a better BC817 that could hold more mA, but for now the plan it's to see if I can find someone with experience with soldering so I don't loose this pricy board. Anyway for me the crossflow it's dead until I get an external power for it, theres no way jose that I will plug that to the main board again :D

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Btw. Can I connect the crossflow fan to the umo+ 24v (not the fans, I don't want to break my new thermistors). And maybe place a voltage regulator (external) so that I could manually set the fan speed? Sorry to ask but I almost break my board and I don't want to break other area of the board :D. The connector don't seems to have thermistor so It should be just full power all the time right?

    Other Idea I have it's to use some design like the design that IRobertI proposed and get x4 40x40x10 24v fans connect them in parallel to the fan connection. Each fan it's 54milliamps so it should be fine?? I mean the bc817 it's 500 so going to 200 should be technically ok?

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    I don't understand your first part...

    What connector do you want to use?

    You could use a 24V to 12V DC/DC converter (1A rating minimum!) and hook up the crossflow fan through this. But that would give you a fixed 12VDC voltage on the crossflow fan, which will probably be waaaay too much cooling.

    If you use an adjustable switching regulator from 24V down to whatever the fan will take, then I can guarantee you that the regulator will overheat. (Except if it's a switching regulator, not a linear regulator).

    The best solution would be to use a MosFET instead of a bipolar transistor on that fan output. I have no idea why anyone is still using bipolar transistors these days... Why not take vacuum tube amps if we're at it? :D

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Why not take vacuum tube amps if we're at it? :D

     

    Yeah! Steampunk ultimaker!

    (and I think Neotko made a typo and meant 'transistor' instead of 'thermistor')

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    The 24v I mean it's the connector that the umo+/um2 board has for a board fan. I'll talk to my friend to see if he can build me something. I have like 1% knowledge about electronics :D. Anyway with this weekend new design for second fan and with the new aluminium cap tht ultimaker sent me and the x2 24v fans I'm starting to get near perfect overhangs. I just want them to be perfect :D

    Thanks for your input

    Edit. Yeah I did a typo :D

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Aaah, ok that would make sense. It's too early in a monday morning for that :p

    The question is, "what is that connector meant for, and made for?". If there isn't supposed to be a high current (650 mA is a high current!) going out of that connector, then you shouldn't use it. Better to tap the power supply directly because from there you can draw high currents.

    /edit: board fan connector..

    It's a question of board trace width. Usually, a fan doesn't draw more than 70 mA which is about 10 times less than our crossflow fan. So it's quite possible that this connection isn't suitable for drawing 650 mA.

    /edit:

    Took a quick look at that connector. You mean J19, located on the top left, very close to the supply input connector?

    This connector would work. Very short connection to the supply input. But it's 24V constant so you'd need to regulate the fan somehow.

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    On the UM2 board the transistor (BC817) on the fan output can maximally deliver 500mA. So if you draw more your transistor will dye and likely it might dye on you sooner since 500mA is the absolute maximum rating.

     

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Yeah been there, done that :D

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    Posted · The crossflow fan approach

    Good advice! I completely forgot to mention that...

    The QG30 draws over 600 mA which is WAY too much for the UMO electronics to handle. The standard fan is more like 50mA.

    I'm using custom electronics which are in the making right now.

     

    Guys I didn't even did check this, I just though this was my amps but yesterday I was about to cut the cable of the crossflow fan to pack everything and then I saw the sticker.

    wth...

     

    How come a 335mA 24V device, can kill the transistors of my Umo+ 2.1.1 board? Its very very well underspecs, so what does that means, that the error wasn't mine but of the umo electronics? And also, if the V/mA are more than 'underspecs' why did the transistor died?

     

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