Jump to content
Ultimaker Community of 3D Printing Experts

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited) · Ender 5 prints not going well

Hello everyone!

I am in a constant battle with my Ender 5 (I hope I'm not the only one that feels like this at the beginning). Although every issue I have I gain a better understanding so that the fun part.

My latest problem was I could not get a calibration cube to print right and after just letting it finish I realized I had the wrong lead screw enabled in the firmware. I enabled the new lead screw and the cube printed really well. After that I printed a simple toothpaste squeezer and it worked fine, I then tried to print 2 boxes with curved tops and 9 toothpaste squeezers all of which were separate STL's that I put in 1 Cura project. Around layer 20 one of the squeezers was messed up and puking filament everywhere. I tried to salvage the print by removing the trouble part and tried to continue the print but nothing really worked so I cancelled the whole thing.

I then looked at my BL touch data and was trying to make sure it was actually giving accurate mesh data, I spend a good amount of time trying to figure out why is was so inconsistent and realized I need to G28 before G29 for consistent results.

I also tightened the spacer on the Y axis extruder side wheels as there was some play in the X axis when I used my hand to try and rotate the hotend assembly up and down. After doing that I ran G28 & G29 then adjusted my Z offset before attempting the next print.

I wanted to attempt the same print as before just much smaller scale, so I tried the same 2 curved box stl's and 1 squeezer stl and around layer 7 this happened

833755106_Photo2021-03-0881156AM.thumb.jpg.4ea92a58939da05f837ddb3fdfa6cb52.jpg

There isn't supposed to be a line through there so I am not sure what the printer thought it was doing, the same sort of thing caused the big print to fail but I didn't catch it this early. It looks like it just decided to start pouring out filament for some reason and start to draw a line that shouldn't be there

So here is the hardware/software I am using:

  • Creality Ender 5

  • Silent Board V4.2.7 (Upgrade)

  • NEMA 17 stepper damper on Y axis

  • TL Smoother on Z axis

  • BLTouch 3.1

  • .4 Nozzle

  • Printed bed support

  • Glass bed

  • Raspberry Pi 3B+ (Ethernet connection)

  • th3d unified 2.22

  • Cura 4.8.0

  • OctoPrint

  • Mech Solutions PLA 1.75

Cura settings:

  • Layer Height .2

  • Initial Layer Height .3

  • Wall Thickness .8

  • Wall Line Coun 2

  • Top/Bottom Thickness .9

  • Top/Bottom Layers 5

  • Infill Density 2%

  • Infill Line Distance 40mm

  • Pattern Grid

  • Overlap % 20

  • Printing Temp 197

  • Printing Temp Initial Layer 205

  • Bed Temp 60

  • Print Speed 40

  • Top/Bottom Speed 20

  • Travel Speed 120

  • Initial Layer Speed 20

  • Skirt Speed 20

  • Accel control nothing over 1000

  • Jerk control 9 or less except travel is 10

  • Retraction Distance 6mm

  • Retraction Speed 40

  • Combing mode All

  • Avoid printed parts / supports when traveling

  • Z hop height .2

I spin the spool out by hand every once in awhile so the extruder isn't having to pull the weight of the spool as it goes. I read somewhere that when its having to pull the whole spool it could lead to inconsistent spooling.

Here is the Gcode that I used, not sure if that helps at all. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lndgjr289x6mmju/resttestsand1toothpaste.gcode?dl=0

I then calibrated the Extruder stepper, realized it was under extruding 7mm. I made the adjustment so when it is being asked to extrude 100mm it is bang on now.

I attempted a print and this is what happened

2020122466_Photo2021-03-08100033AM.thumb.jpg.aa48a403965b69e9036062eda199b250.jpg

I thought now oh its because the infill cant support the top of the print that's why it failed so I did the exact same print with 15% infill instead of 2%.

It failed almost right away...

639157995_Photo2021-03-08100106AM.thumb.jpg.ed9a504f1e928c852e707d2828946a4b.jpg

 

Edited by jzwicker
  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well

    This looks like hardware issues.  It looks like maybe the X axis just stops moving all together?  I'd check the wiring to the X stepper.  Well I assume it's X as it looks like the head stops moving left nor right and just moves in and out.

     

    Is this correct?  Does it just move in and out but not left and right when it gets to this failure mode?

     

    While it's doing this if you shove it in the X direction (left or right) does it move easily as though stepper is powered off (after moving in X, cut power and try moving in X direction with power off)?

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well
    3 minutes ago, gr5 said:

    This looks like hardware issues.  It looks like maybe the X axis just stops moving all together?  I'd check the wiring to the X stepper.  Well I assume it's X as it looks like the head stops moving left nor right and just moves in and out.

     

    Is this correct?  Does it just move in and out but not left and right when it gets to this failure mode?

     

    While it's doing this if you shove it in the X direction (left or right) does it move easily as though stepper is powered off (after moving in X, cut power and try moving in X direction with power off)?

     

    Yes your exactly right with the no more X axis movements, thing is when I start a new print its works just fine for the first few layers.

     

    I just tried a calibration cube with Cura's default standard settings and it failed again, while failing I could easily move the X axis back and forth, I powered off and moved the X axis again hitting a snag. I think my BLtouch was deployed (it does that test every time it powers on or off) and I bent it against the print (FML).

     

    Do you think the BL is getting in the way? Or that may have just been impatience on my part because the second I switched the power off I started moving X.

     

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well

    No idea if the bed leveler is getting in the way.  If it is the steppers would make a HORRIBLE racket.  It takes a lot of energy to stop the steppers from moving and if you succeed they shake and rattle and some people panick because they are positive that the printer is about to explode or something.

     

    If you didn't notice a lot of violent noise and movement, then "no I don't think the BL got in the way".

     

    More likely the X axis driver is overheating.  Is there a fan on the circuit board that cools the 4 stepper drivers (stepper drivers are small chips the size of a small postage stamp but larger than most of the remaining chips).

     

    You can lower the current to the x stepper by say 30% and see if that helps.  I don't know of those steppers can be controlled programmatically through the menu system on the printer?  Or if there is a tiny potentiometer (if the later by VERY careful - turning it 1/8 of a turn in the wrong direction can blow up the stepper driver in about 1/2 second).

     

    Anyway it could be some fan that cools the PCB is broken.  Or some wiring heats up, expands and stops connecting the driver to the stepper.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well
    2 minutes ago, gr5 said:

    No idea if the bed leveler is getting in the way.  If it is the steppers would make a HORRIBLE racket.  It takes a lot of energy to stop the steppers from moving and if you succeed they shake and rattle and some people panick because they are positive that the printer is about to explode or something.

     

    If you didn't notice a lot of violent noise and movement, then "no I don't think the BL got in the way".

     

    More likely the X axis driver is overheating.  Is there a fan on the circuit board that cools the 4 stepper drivers (stepper drivers are small chips the size of a small postage stamp but larger than most of the remaining chips).

     

    You can lower the current to the x stepper by say 30% and see if that helps.  I don't know of those steppers can be controlled programmatically through the menu system on the printer?  Or if there is a tiny potentiometer (if the later by VERY careful - turning it 1/8 of a turn in the wrong direction can blow up the stepper driver in about 1/2 second).

     

    Anyway it could be some fan that cools the PCB is broken.  Or some wiring heats up, expands and stops connecting the driver to the stepper.

    Oh boy, sounds like you hit the nail on the head. Ill look into the fan and what could be going on under there and report back. Thank you so much for your advice so far, brings much clarity.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well

    There is a fan here but its not spinning when the power is on, should it always be running?

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well

    The fan that cools the mainboard on my Ender 3 Pro was wired to the Cooling Blower.  So if you turn the cooling blower on at any % then mainboard fan should come on at 100% (it's not variable speed like the blower).

    I was printing PETG and the blower was pretty much always off so the mainboard fan never came on and the E driver failed.  My fix was to cut the plug off the mainboard fan wires and fasten them to the Hot End fan connection.  The hot end fan always runs, so now my mainboard fan does too.

     

    gr5 was talking about reference voltage.  As he says, there may be a little potentiometer next the driver chip (there may be one next to all 4 drivers).  With a multi-meter positive lead on the screw head, and the negative on any 24v ground, you will get the Vref value.  It is typically around 1 volt with the E driver a bit more.  It is adjustable by turning that little screw a touch at a time.  If the Vref is too high the stepper motor can overheat (I don't know if they thermally protected or not).  If the Vref is too low then the motor doesn't develop enough torque and it will miss steps.  When a stepper is running, you should be able to keep your fingers on on the housing comfortably.  If there isn't a screw next to the driver chips, then you may be able to adjust the "current" with M906 or M907.  When I send M503 to my printer an M906 line is in the response as M906 X650 Y650 Z650 E800.  The values are in milliamps and multiplying by 1.3 and dividing by 1000 gives the Vref to achieve that current flow to the steppers.  So on my particular machine the Vrefs are .85, .85, .85 and 1.04.

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted (edited) · Ender 5 prints not going well

    I found that my fan was not running so I wired it in to always be cooling the board, attempted a print and failed again. When I send M503, I don't get a M906 line back I get the following:

    Send: M503
    Recv: echo:  G21    ; Units in mm (mm)
    Recv: echo:  M149 C ; Units in Celsius
    Recv: 
    Recv: echo:; Steps per unit:
    Recv: echo: M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z800.00 E102.15
    Recv: echo:; Maximum feedrates (units/s):
    Recv: echo:  M203 X500.00 Y500.00 Z10.00 E50.00
    Recv: echo:; Maximum Acceleration (units/s2):
    Recv: echo:  M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z100.00 E5000.00
    Recv: echo:; Acceleration (units/s2): P<print_accel> R<retract_accel> T<travel_accel>
    Recv: echo:  M204 P500.00 R1000.00 T500.00
    Recv: echo:; Advanced: B<min_segment_time_us> S<min_feedrate> T<min_travel_feedrate> X<max_x_jerk> Y<max_y_jerk> Z<max_z_jerk> E<max_e_jerk>
    Recv: echo:  M205 B20000.00 S0.00 T0.00 X8.00 Y8.00 Z0.40 E5.00
    Recv: echo:; Auto Bed Leveling:
    Recv: echo:  M420 S0
    Recv: echo:  G29 W I0 J0 Z0.03875
    Recv: echo:  G29 W I1 J0 Z-0.01325
    Recv: echo:  G29 W I2 J0 Z0.04175
    Recv: echo:  G29 W I0 J1 Z0.04525
    Recv: echo:  G29 W I1 J1 Z-0.01025
    Recv: echo:  G29 W I2 J1 Z0.03450
    Recv: echo:  G29 W I0 J2 Z-0.00675
    Recv: echo:  G29 W I1 J2 Z-0.05575
    Recv: echo:  G29 W I2 J2 Z-0.04050
    Recv: echo:; Material heatup parameters:
    Recv: echo:  M145 S0 H200 B60 F0
    Recv: echo:  M145 S1 H240 B100 F0
    Recv: echo:; PID settings:
    Recv: echo:  M301 P28.72 I2.62 D78.81
    Recv: echo:; Z-Probe Offset (mm):
    Recv: echo:  M851 X-44.00 Y-16.00 Z-2.72
    Recv: echo:; Filament load/unload lengths:
    Recv: echo:  M603 L0.00 U100.00
    

    I am running the TMC2225's. 

    Edited by jzwicker
  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well

    I don't see anything in the response either so maybe the Vref is adjustable on the board.

    "Could I just and slowdown the Jerk/Accel/Speed of the X axis?"  I don't think it's the starts and stops that are the problem.  If the diagnosis that the "X" quits working mid-print is correct (and it sounds like it is) then it's going to fail.

     

    The stepper will quit if it doesn't receive the signals from the mainboard, or if it has an internal problem.  Either the motor is cooling down and coming back to life, or the driver is over-heating, or gr5 was right when he mentioned a bad solder joint or something on the mainboard that is opening up when it warms up.  I can't recall ever hearing of a stepper failing on a Creality printer.  On the other hand Crealty mainboards are a well documented failure point.  I have one sitting on a shelf.

    If you take the X connector on the mainboard and plug it into the Y socket, and then plug the Y wire into the X socket, and run a print then the failure will point to your problem child.  If the X still quits working it's the motor.  If the problem moves to the Y it's the mainboard.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted (edited) · Ender 5 prints not going well

    X failed again, so it is an overheating of the motor problem? Next I should lower the current going to the X axis?

    Edited by jzwicker
  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well

    The stepper motors are almost indestructable.  As long as the air temp stays below 60C (I should hope so!) those steppers last forever.  There's no chips in the stepper.  No transistors.  Just the motor coils - nothing else.  it's almost impossible for a stepper to "stop working" briefly.  It's either the wiring or the stepper driver.

     

    Newer stepper drivers are very fancy and can shut off if too hot but usually only for a fraction of a second.  But every stepper driver is different so I don't know.  There are so many new types of stepper drivers that I am not familiar with.

     

    If it is pretty reliable on the first layer then heat seems likely.  If it's much more intermittent then electrical connection seems likely.  Although as Greg says it could be a trace or solder connection on the board and the board heats up as you print causing things to expand and some connection to open up.

     

    For example one leg on the driver chip might not be soldered and just barely touching.  When the chip heats up it no longer makes connection.

     

    If this is a brand new printer I'd ask the place where you bought the printer for a new circuit board.  Or just pay for one.

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well

    Right,

     

    I did upgrade the board to 2.4.7 silent board already. So if I switch the X and Y cables completely rather than just switching them at the board I should have Y axis fail rather than X if it is infact the cables. The fact that even when I plug X into Y and Y into X at the board, X still failing tells me its not the board, its something between the board and the motor. Am I on the right track here?

  • Link to post
    Share on other sites
    Posted · Ender 5 prints not going well

    Yes but if you swap the cables usually you want to swap the limit switches also such that it will home properly?

     

    And when you go to print a part it will be mirror image backwards.  I think.  It will be flipped along a diagonal "mirror line" from the front left to the right rear of the printer.

     

    • Like 1
    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now
    • Our picks

      • Ultimaker Transformation Summit

        On April 20 - April 23 we will host the Ultimaker Transformation Summit. Come talk to us via Live chat and get inspired by any of our relevant presentations!
        • 6 replies
      • New here? Register your Ultimaker for free 3D printer onboarding course
        Hi,
         
        Often getting started is the most difficult part of any process. A good start sets you up for success and saves you time and energy that could be spent elsewhere. That is why we have a onboarding course ready for
        Ultimaker S5 Pro Bundle, Ultimaker S5, Ultimaker S3 Ultimaker 2+ Connect.   
        They're ready for you on the Ultimaker Academy platform. All you need to do to gain access is to register your product to gain free access. 
        Ready? Register your product here in just 60 seconds.
        • 0 replies
    ×
    ×
    • Create New...