Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

[eldrick 65]

0.5mm surely can't make much of a difference?

 

I think the issue is that it pushes the filament off-center against the intake and bowden tube sidewalls.

 

[solid-print-3d 30]

For what it's worth, I tried most of the feeders out there. And had problems with them all. No offense to you guys and your hard work, I really appreciate the effort! I've been using this one for the past 2000 print hours or more with absolutely no issues. Printing in Ninja Flex, Nylon ABS and PLA.

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/um2feeder-v3-1-1

Keep in mind that I'm more volume/production oriented, so I pound this feeder 24/7. So far, the only sign of wear is at the filament entrance where the filament rubs the opening orifice. Shouldn't have to print another one for another 2000 hours or so, if that.

Update:

Takei Naodar has sent me this feeder with filament change capabilities. We'll see how that goes. Keep ya posted.

 

[eldrick 65]

Today I installed one of the Spirit's belt-driven variants, but saw no advantage on the UM2 extrusion test, and had some issues with changing filament, so I went back to |Robert|s feeder: the convenience for doing a cold-pull atomic method, and not having to fool around with the UM2 Change Filament routine makes it a superior alternative for me.

However, I've got my hopes up for a UM2 Flex3Drive mod...

 

[donmilne 2]

Flex3Drive mod?

 

[Blizz 53]

Guess http://mutley3d.com/Flex3Drive/ is what he meant.

 

[donmilne 2]

I see, thanks. Seems a tad over-complicated to me.

 

[eldrick 65]

It gives a direct-drive extruder, and eliminates all of the issues caused by the Bowden tube. Little complexity involved.

Here is a thread on a UM Original version: http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/6987-flexible-shaft-the-best-of-both-worlds/

 

[foehnsturm 969]

Actually less cumbersome than some UM2 feeders IMHO.

I'd love to try it on an UM2 but I don't own one. And I think it's kind of a question of philosophy. Right now there is the direct extruder approach and the bowden department but not so much outside the box I think.

[leon-knook 4]

I join you guys with this new feeder from Robert. Works fantastic!

Thank you Robert for all the effort and sharing this great stuff.

Kind regards,

Leon.

 

[th3o 0]

Maybe there has already been talking about this before and did I miss it in the 39 pages of this thread, but has someone any experience with this one: https://0x7d.com/2014/07/improved-ultimaker-2-material-extruder/ ?

 

[eldrick 65]

That is Spirit's feeder. I tried the one at the bottom of the page, but was not very impressed.

 

[th3o 0]

So Roberts feeder is the best at the moment?

Doesn't surprise me. I'm using his spool holder and that one is awesome!

[ian 32]

yes !... he is... very good !!!

 

[spirit 0]

Today I installed one of the Spirit's belt-driven variants, but saw no advantage on the UM2 extrusion test, and had some issues with changing filament, so I went back to |Robert|s feeder: the convenience for doing a cold-pull atomic method, and not having to fool around with the UM2 Change Filament routine makes it a superior alternative for me.

However, I've got my hopes up for a UM2 Flex3Drive mod...

 

I just want to clarify a point mentioned here in case others get the wrong impression about the point of my extruder design. The belt system does not improve the result of the UM2 extrusion test. In fact, it should perform worse due to the increased friction from the gearing system. The entire point of the design was to improve extrusion reliability and accuracy. The extra reliability only comes into play when printing retraction-heavy prints which more often ends up stripping the filament partway through a print. Most people seem to be printing fairly simple designs with few to no retractions (especially when combing is turned on) so they won't be seeing any benefits from my extruder. For those who like to print with combing turned off or complicated prints with a large number of retractions, thats where my extruder design shines. For reference, I've been printing retraction heavy prints at 50 micron layer heights for >200 hours now with no underextrusions and no occurrence of filament stripping.

Changing filaments is certainly a hassle, but its not an issue that I'm planning to fix as it would add unnecessary complexity to the extruder design. I'm not advertising this design as a solve-all-problems upgrade. It's really only meant for a small niche set of users who are intent on squeezing every bit of quality out of their prints.

 

[zumfab 3]

It I would want to fit one of Robert's feeders on an UM1 for the sake of printing flexible material, what would be needed? Finding a place for the motor to live is one thing, I guess. Are the other non plastic feeder parts unique to the UM2?

Robert, in what program did you make your files, if I may ask?

 

[ian 32]

i think he did it with solidworks....

 

[ian 32]

sorry for being away so long from this tread guys...

Has anyone tried just taking off the biting wheel from the stepper motor and installed a rubber coated wheel.

I know in our company there are some really fantastic new rubbers with wopping friction....

I really want to be set free in our workshops with my ultimaker and see what we can cook up... there are thousands of tools and every little bit and piece you ever wanted.... the whole thing is there... I just need my bosses YES...

Ian :-)

 

[3poro 9]

Has anyone tried just taking off the biting wheel from the stepper motor and installed a rubber coated wheel.

I know in our company there are some really fantastic new rubbers with wopping friction....

 

I haven't tried, but please allow me to speculate Rubber coated wheel would require quite different feeder design. The wheel itself would need to have quite big diameter - also, there would need to be some guides to keep the filament touching the wheel for more than a millimeter or two.

Even if friction can be excellent between rubber and filament, it gets much worse when either of the surfaces gets dusty or dirty. The only way to overcome this problem is to have a lengthier touching area between the two. With a large diameter wheel - or your belt design - that would be possible. However, I'm not sure whether the original stepper motor would be strong enough to handle a much bigger diameter wheel without some sort of a gear system.

 

[pm_dude 27]

I was thinking about it too but having a rubber part over the bearing not replacing the motor wheel. This way you would still have a good grip.

 

[BasVanDeursen 0]

Hi all,

@ Ian: I've tried with a PU wheel, but that was way too slippery on the PLA. However, I did not try with other rubber wheels (PU wheels were most easy to buy).

I must say that I am really impressed by the flexible shaft solution, seems to work pretty well!

-Bas

 

[flashp0int 0]

It gives a direct-drive extruder, and eliminates all of the issues caused by the Bowden tube. Little complexity involved.

Here is a thread on a UM Original version: http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/6987-flexible-shaft-the-best-of-both-worlds/

 

This looks really great!

And there is a Rostock version in the pipe, that's even better as this is my second printer

 

[ian 32]

Hay Bas ! :-)

I know your doing a lot of valuable research at the moment.. building up a database of gold worth info for now and the future.... GOOD JOB !!! :-)

Has any of the mad scientists in your department played with a small motor housed on the print head with some sort of simple gear that bites and pulls in the filament... I mean feeder and bowden is lovely... but I think most people will start to admit... a simple reliable feeder.. light weight and print head based would be... a golden bullet...

Have a great evening !!

Ian :-)

 

[BasVanDeursen 0]

Hi Ian,

One of us is experimenting with the design made by foehnsturm with the flex shaft.

Cheers!

Bas

 

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

Hi Ian,

One of us is experimenting with the design made by foehnsturm with the flex shaft.

Cheers!

Bas

 

Just don't patent it... Or we will call you Ultitaker... :lol:

 

[foehnsturm 969]

Hi Ian,

One of us is experimenting with the design made by foehnsturm with the flex shaft.

Cheers!

Bas

 

Oh, interesting to hear :wink:

I'm curious how it behaves with the stock UM hotend. I really didn't go for speed so far. But there is ridiculously low stepper torque required so the limiting factor will be the hobbed wheel or the gears.

Even two extruders should be possible within a 45 mm cube. You could reduce the required width to some 60% with shorter Delrin parts. Or turn it 90° so that the worm gear is positioned horizontally.