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Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas


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Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

For fine tuning pressure it would work but I'll let you get back home and try it and see what you think about doing it every time you want to change filament, it's pretty cramped back there. But, you could of course remove the spool first though... hmm, maybe I should move my latch to the left after all. (can you tell I'm typing while thinking? :p )

Also, now that I look at the sketch again I might be having a blonde moment as you put it. But, I don't quite understand how the "bow" is able to move? The black circles are the holes on the motor, right? So, with a screw going through there, doesn't that lock the "bow" in place?

 

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Imagine that the black circles are the screws

    On the left side, the oval things with the spring in it are put over those screw blocks and the half-circle part with the second weel is mounted on this oval parts.

    So basically something like the suspension on an very old horsedrawn carriage or train waggon... (leaf spring / plate spring...)

    @ Ian - correct????

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Ian :cool:

     

    I understand your system, but reverse the position of your springs.

     

    In addition, establish a kind of handle-bar on the left that allows you to draw with your fingers.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Imagine that the black circles are the screws

    On the left side, the oval things with the spring in it are put over those screw blocks and the half-circle part with the second weel is mounted on this oval parts.

    So basically something like the suspension on an very old horsedrawn carriage or train waggon... (leaf spring / plate spring...)

    @ Ian - correct????

    correct ! :-)

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Ian :cool:

     

    I understand your system, but reverse the position of your springs.

     

    In addition, establish a kind of handle-bar on the left that allows you to draw with your fingers.

    Thats a very cool idea !!! :-) Thank you.

    Ian :-)

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Glad you like it :)

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Hello, here is something interesing i found. As im looking for various printers (whats coming out new) i noticed a printer called Mingda, cheap, massive build envelope 300x200x360 mm and it also uses a bowden tube. In an early presentation video it can be seen it uses a feeder similiar to Ultimaker:

    2lsjhn6.jpg

    After some time sellers started to sell a V2 version that has a new feeder:

    ncmadv.jpg

    oif1jo.jpg

    Printer looks quite awesome if we take stated 40 micron layer, massive build envelope, ball screw... But maybe this can help to see some improvements for Ultimaker 2 feeder.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Also... Aaron.. I see you down there in the viewes list.... haha... i spot you !! :wink: I know your a bit of a crazy solidorks maniac... any interesting idea concepts to help us ??? :smile:

     

    Trust me, my mind is racing a mile a minute on this one :-P!! I feel so inadequate without my printer yet though; nonetheless I still have some ideas milling around in my head, and have a good sense of the dimensions of this part of the printer from stuff already posted in this the thread. I will definitely will report my more lucid ideas when I can properly draft them up and move them around in SW :mrgreen:.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    If I designed something, it would probably be inspired by forest machine harvester heads:

    The filament feeder is somehow a similar engineering challenge, just on a slightly different scale :grin:

    I made a quick draft with standard gears and bearings from RS Components, just cutting a trace for the filament:

    UM2 New feeder

    UM2 New feeder Cut 2

    UM2 New feeder Cut

    I would personally like this kind of design, where both feeder rollers/gears are powered and there is a large surface area for the filament to rest on and at the same time sharp edges for traction.

    Now, I did not think this through very much, so considerer it as a wild idea, not anything you should go and build before thinking it through extensively.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Anders,

    Your concept is similar to the idea I was trying to convey on prior pages of this discussion. I believe you came to this without knowledge of my postings - which I think adds validity. We both separately and unknowingly were inspired to the same concept. You sir have a great mind!

    Although I like the economy in your concept where your gear teeth have dual functions. I would divorce those functions to separate cogs on common shafts. A more ideal driving surface can be had, and the gear teeth need not be compromised.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    It's my turn to put my ideas.

     

    I was part of the original design. I have a version that functioned not too bad until you have had problems and teflon nozzle.

     

    I shall return it as soon as I received the parts to repair my Ultimaker hot end.

     

    I'm tired of having the engine falls as soon as I disconnect the 4 screws. So I took my design and I transfer part. There are more than two screws are stepper motor and two other holding the upper hoods. So I can leave 2 screws instead.

     

    That in theory that it will.

     

    Extruder V3

    I have not yet tested. But that's what I'll do in the future.

     

    A note in this version:

    - Two screws on the stepping motor.

    - 2 M3 screws to hold the case

    - Deflection arm greatest pressure

    - Requires a powerful and long spring

    - Need a threaded rod for adjusting the pressure arm.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    I setup my reel on a brush laying on the arms of a sofa 1 metere away from my printer last night.

    I only got time to print my small test right frame but it did look better ! no signs of under extrusion.

    I think the handling of the filmanet is still very much goal number one but if there was goal number 2. would be to change the flow of filament between the filament reel and the feeder.. it seems to really just let the filament flow in and not be pushed and twisted around a small area...

    Maybe even the pressure and stress could be also twisting the filament inside the feeder as it is fed and also screw up the feed process....

    Think of this.. the filament flows in and up. the metal teeth bite in the turn up the filament. at the same time. the material memory stress in the filament forces the whole circle to turn.. now the filament is not being evenly pushed up... it is being pushed up and around in different directions...

    Im going to print the second half of my right arm design tonight and also my first initial test rig with the two even springs and handle release design and see what happens.

    Will keep you guys updated.

    Have a nice day.

    Ian :smile:

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Funny you should say that Ian... I just a had a look at my fat fail from last time a little while ago. At the time of the test print I thought that I had messed up the alignment somewhere along the way when I was making new adjustments to the model. But, it turns out it's exactly what you describe, the filament comes in at an angle and since it's so strong/stiff it's torquing itself out of the little guide wheel I put on the bearing until it aaalmost pops out. So, I've started working on putting in a guide hole in the bottom of the feeder, which is what I wanted to avoid in the first place with this design...

    My current plan is to sacrifice a cm or two of a bowden tube and then put that in the bottom part, trapped inside. That should at least provide a somewhat smoother entrance than the hard plastic.

    I also played around a bit with pushing filament into the bowden, just to confirm what we all already know. It takes A LOT more force when the filament has a "sharp" bend in it from being on the spool. Especially if it comes in so it has to fight its natural curl which is basically impossible to avoid in the current configuration.

    My gut is telling me this design is a waste of time though. A bit of a shame after all the hours I put into it.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    the more i think.... If we are doing a better more reliable feeder system for the future... we have to either integrate a new system of filament flow into our designs.

    It is a waste if we spend hours and hours designing a better gripped feeder and then users still have this crazy filament force and twist....

    Now im just thinking.. should I addon to my existing test rig an arm with a turning wheel at the end, so the flow of the filament gets pulled out weider and then turns on the wheel and back up into the extruder...

    or... should I do this turning arm as as a secondry part.... seperate from the feeder...

    or... should I rethink the location of the filament completly and create a simple clamp.on holder for the filament somewhere else on the printer... or remotely... but remotely doesnt look good... thats whats slowing me down on that idea...

    A thinking Ian.... ;-)

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    I know it can be sometimes like a race.. who will be the hero ? who will discover the perfect solution to this problem.. in my case... I want to share everything with you guys... make our pool of information richer and so get a better result faster.

    So here are the STL files of my test rig.

    https://www.youmagine.com/designs/v1-ultimaker2-new-feeder-housing-test-p1

    It will be a lot sweeter if this time when we crack this nut.. we can call it the UM community feeder ;-) LOL

    Ian ;)

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    I know it can be sometimes like a race.. who will be the hero ? who will discover the perfect solution to this problem..

     

    Come on boys... Theres no individual heroes here!

    The real hero is this forum. The true superpowers are the fact that we have here joined some of the brightest minds in their different areas and fortunately thanks to the new technologies we have available at the tip of our fingers real superpowers. There should be no competition feelings but team spirit feelings.

    In fact there will be no superhero because underextrusion is not only caused by one factor, in my opinion the underextrusion is caused by more than one subject, there in the end after overcome the existing problems, we become all winners because we will be especially proud for having the best printer in the market and the best online community. (we already have) :)

    I understand your feeling Ian, wanting to find the perfect solution and help the entire community to overcome this problem and you are doing a good job in developing the feeder material and sharing the information, so keep up the good work.

    Bearing in mind what I said, I wanted to add that there are no heroes here... but illuminarti is my hero and George is his assistant. ;)

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Hi Ian,

    I really like your idea! You have increased the contact surface of the filament, this will allow for a reduction of the pressure. Perhaps you could increase the diameter of the knurled knob as well. This will pribably cause some problems with the stepper resolution, though.

    Another thing that should absolutely be included is some way of manually advancing the filament. This is the entire reason why I never had many problems with the UM 1. During the heating process, I like to prime the nozzle by turning the feeder wheel by hand. You get a feeling for the mechanism and you can avoid pushing too much material into the nozzle.

    Perhaps you could close the feeder by putting a big manual feed wheel on top that will serve as a cover? If it has some kind of quick release it could come off very quickly to check the insides of the mechanism.

    All the best

    Albert

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Using natural form to create spring tension for a better feeder mechanism ?

     

    Before the hardcore engineer people shoot me for this.. This is a soft test at an idea I had last night.

    I wondered if it was possible to create a super simple feeder system that could be constructed in very few parts and didn't require anything special or tools !

    The idea is to put the turning wheel from the existing feeder roughly .. 0.3mm closer to the turning gear. Then keeping it in that function position, designing the frame around it in such a way that the structure and material itself works as a spring to allow the wheel to push back when it needed to. (ie. when the filament expands a little) Remember the changing dimension of filament is not so massive. So the pressure wheel simply has to hold a firm position and then be able to move back a tiny tiny bit. to allow the larger filament to move through.

    I wanted to try this same internal suspension system with two turning wheels on the pully setup but the turning wheels that come with the ultimaker feeder don't fit.. a little to big.. so I need to source two smaller metal turning wheels.. then I can create on the left side, a rubber pully system rolling against the filament and giving grip. at the same time, using the tension of the housing to create tension.

    The research continues....

    Ian :-)

    unnamed.jpg

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    It's great to see everyone collaborating on this!

    A little input from me regarding material selection for the feeder components/housing: I have an all metal feeder that is about the same design as the UM1 feeder in that it's clamped but with a small entrance hole.

    I have problems with filament dust getting scraped off the sharp metal edges of that entrance hole and also when pulling the filament manually when the extruder motor is off. Metal is hard and sharp! I tried smoothing the edges with a Dremel rotary tool but only helps for part of the problem.

    I'd like to see other durable material for the parts. PolyCarbonate? PP? And maybe rubber-costed wheels for the contact with the filament where it is gripped.

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Anders,

    Your concept is similar to the idea I was trying to convey on prior pages of this discussion. I believe you came to this without knowledge of my postings - which I think adds validity. We both separately and unknowingly were inspired to the same concept. You sir have a great mind!

    Although I like the economy in your concept where your gear teeth have dual functions. I would divorce those functions to separate cogs on common shafts. A more ideal driving surface can be had, and the gear teeth need not be compromised.

     

    I agree.

    My thought is that there is an ideal spacing for gears that is something like a paper's width (i.e. you should be able to run a piece of paper between the gears). That doesn't leave a lot of room for variation in filament diameter between manufacturers, if you want to have the gears mesh well.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Using natural form to create spring tension for a better feeder mechanism ?

     

    Before the hardcore engineer people shoot me for this.. This is a soft test at an idea I had last night.

    I wondered if it was possible to create a super simple feeder system that could be constructed in very few parts and didn't require anything special or tools !

    The idea is to put the turning wheel from the existing feeder roughly .. 0.3mm closer to the turning gear. Then keeping it in that function position, designing the frame around it in such a way that the structure and material itself works as a spring to allow the wheel to push back when it needed to. (ie. when the filament expands a little) Remember the changing dimension of filament is not so massive. So the pressure wheel simply has to hold a firm position and then be able to move back a tiny tiny bit. to allow the larger filament to move through.

    I wanted to try this same internal suspension system with two turning wheels on the pully setup but the turning wheels that come with the ultimaker feeder don't fit.. a little to big.. so I need to source two smaller metal turning wheels.. then I can create on the left side, a rubber pully system rolling against the filament and giving grip. at the same time, using the tension of the housing to create tension.

    The research continues....

    Ian :smile:

     

    I think the primary concern for this would be the elasticity of the plastic changing as it wears and ages.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    I would also be concerned that the force would be different based on the type of filament used, maybe even down to the supplier. Printer settings such as heat and speed and how much underextrusion would also affect the spring force. Since this is a fix to avoid underextrusion I think that is too big of a risk requiring a really consistent print quality for a part like this.

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    Sorry guys iv been away testing my designs.

    After a few big fails... I am printing non stop tonight with my design.. over speed 100 with temp 220 and zero under extrusion.

    I think this design is a big learning step for me... removing some big problems... but it is not the final design.

    One massive thing I have learned now is that if you can line up the filament going from the filament holder to the feeder with almost zero friction. that amazingly helps flow rates and smoothness.

    What im going to do next is. try swapping out the left section for a new piece with two smaller metal wheels that fit int perfectly into the internal working area and will allow me to test my fanbelt concept... Now I need to address two things... changing prssure from diameter change of filament,,, the plastic is a cute idea but not a permanent solutuion and also the traction from a belt drive....

    But guys... combining ideas from this tread.. printing. clicking together so easily and then clicking print... AND IT PRINTS AMAZING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    YEHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    :smile:

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    and photos !! :smile:

    rider1.jpg

    rider2.jpg

    rider3.jpg

    rider4.jpg

     

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    Posted · Ultimaker2 Feeder System - Improvements and Ideas

    two big PLUSES iv just noticed... when you change material. the old material is rolled out and then as always you get along thin tread of left over PLA coming behind it. the thin cable of PLA comes out into the opening and you can just pick it out with your finger and the whole thing slides out of the bowden in one piece :.. :smile:

    Second big plus.. when you load new filament. because the angle of approach of the filement coming into the feeder is now better. there is less stress on the filament and the reel and so you dont get any sqeaking anymore when loading filament !!!

    OK.. yes I am super happy tonight if no one has noticed.... :wink:

    Ian :smile:

     

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