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Heated Build Chamber WIP


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Posted · Heated Build Chamber WIP

Hi aviphysics :c)

Some excellent ideas here!

The hair dryer actually goes up to 2000W on the highest setting! So power is not an issue. I have actually bought an AC light dimmer for the very purpose of controlling the hair dryer, but I've just realised it is only rated to 250W. Oops! Rethink in order ;c) I'm sure there will be something on eBay that will do the job though.

I really like the idea of controlling the hot / cold air mixture, a sort of Ultimaker carburettor ;c) I’m already thinking of designing an additional component to do just this, based on your idea. Thanks man!

The window vent has no fan, so I’m putting a 50mm fan at the back of the UM, check the pics, it’s at the back between the chamber and the exhaust fitting. The idea being that it would create a reduced pressure enough to have a small inward flow of air through the gaps in the printer forcing the fumes out. So this is exactly what you are saying, loving the smoke wizard too :c) I was thinking of using an incense stick to do the same job. I found that the fan in the hair dryer (I actually had it inside the printer) did a good job of circulating the heat inside the printer, much like a convection fan oven.

You know since I started this thread the design process has taken quite a few twists and turns, this is what I love about the open source ethos.

Magic.

 

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    Posted · Heated Build Chamber WIP

    Hi!

    I think the point is not just to be hot. Is much more important to be at constant temperature or low variation cause the shrinking rate change with temperature if you have variations of 10-15 degrees your print will not have uniform shape.

    The idea to control with the second extruder option was nice, but you can't change the PID parameters just for one extruder and change Marlin is not easy, i was looking at temperature control files on it and there's a lot of work to do.

    You need a Triac to control AC power (it is like a dimmer) and with a microcontroler like arduino is easy to control.

    I'm using now a relay, but turning on off a 2000w heater many times, relay, heater, and PID control are not compatible, triac is much better.

    Relay should be nice for a 12v 200w heater, like silicone one, i suppose best is one or two of this silicone heater with an aluminium plates in the lateral walls, there is enough space. I think i will go for it when i have 100€ more to spend.

    How do you trigger the hairdryer? Because if you plan to do yourself for a 20 hours print should be really annoying.

    I also started with a hairdryer but have some points to consider, it's too noisy to be trigger every two minutes and the air flow is too high.

    By now, just today i finish my recycled junk/low cost self temoerature regulated heat chamber and i'm doing some prints.

    Here there is how it looks like:

    heat chamber1

     

    The outside walls are hard cardboard from the back side of a canvas i found in the rubbish, the up side is made from some plywood i had in the workshop, the front window is the old bed from the ultimaker and the heater is an old heater i had, that ones we use for the bathroom, here are very common.

    I design the fan ducts for a 40mm fan, double fan and small enough to don't touch the walls:

    heat chamber3

    I will upload to youmagine. (also the clips for the walls)

    , i also put 2 extra fans for the electronics cause it doesn't really like the heat, it becomes 8 degrees down! And also 2 fans on the top to redistribute the heat.

    To trigger i use that old arduino duemilanove with very simple window (60-63)

    And here it is one print on the way:

    heat chamber2

    All this is very cheap (25-30€, in the sensors, leds, relay, cables... plus the arduino board and the hot bed) and easy to do, only i spend a lot of time. I can explain more if some one wish.

    All this just because i need to do a serie of 185x185x130 boxes and i was really fighting with that, warping, delaminating and everything else just went away... I'm happy now.... :-P

    Cheers.

    Rai.

     

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    Posted · Heated Build Chamber WIP

    That setup looks awsome Rai! I'll reply tonight after reading properly, I've got to go back to work now though :c(

    You beat me to it! I'm really glad it's working for you ;c) Well done :c)

    Cheers.

     

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    Posted · Heated Build Chamber WIP

    You can do PID with a solid state relay. They make some solid state AC relays that can take a lot of current. That is what was in a commercial furnace controller I used. It could supply 15 amps @ 120 V. We used it to keep a combustion chamber at 900 C and the temperature at the thermocouple would fluctuate less than 0.1 C.

    I think the trick with the high current solid state relays is that they are AC only, so current doesn't actually flow through them. TBH, I never gave it much thought beyond that.

    At any rate, your setup looks nice. The main changes I would make would be to recirculate the hot air through the heater, instead of drawing room air, and using a cross flow fan instead of fans on the print head.

    I probably wouldn't bother with PID control. It can be tough to actively regulate the temperature inside an oven with great precision because the air just takes so long to heat and cool. Because the load on the system is relatively steady state, it seems like it would be better to just use a fixed set point and plenty of insulation. If I were going to use a micro controller, I think I would just get an Arduino Micro or PIC to do the job. Messing around with Marlin is just asking for trouble and you have to jump through hoops with every update.

    I think Marlin already has something to allow g-code to make it send an on/off signal to a sub controller, so you could still use that to signal the heater controller.

     

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    Posted · Heated Build Chamber WIP

    Hi guys,

    I had an exhausting day at work today, but would like to thank everyone for the continued interest in this project and I'm really keen to push forward with finalising the design so I can get the parts ordered and build the thing.

    Rai, I am more than convinced that the enclosing of the printer is the way forward, from being able to control the temperature and airflow to extracting the nasty fumes, it has so many benefits. It's a shame that the 2nd extruder temperature control looks like a non starter, but on the plus side, using a Triac seems to be a much better aproach, after a very quick Wikipidia read, they seem to alow a variable alternating current, but my poor tired brain cannot handle electronics at the moment :c) I like the sound of the Triac solution.

    You know I haven't really decided on the exact setup for the heating yet so the hair dyer is just a stopgap.

    Here is a summary of the project:-

    Only air heating, no heated bed

    Crossflow air circulation

    externally mounted, direct drive steppers

    A small fan at the rear for fume extraction

    An adjustable hot / cold vent to vary the recirculation of air

    All of the electrical componentes to be under computer control

    I have decided to break down the project into phases:-

    Phase 1

    Mechanical Design.

    This is 90% complete now and I will have a bill of materials in the next few days and I will also upload the digital files to youmagine

    Phase 2

    Mechanical Fabrication

    Ordering the parts, commisioning a laser cutting beuro for the chamber, printing the exhust fitting, tricle vent fitting and other bits. Assembly.

    Phase 3

    Heating and Temperature Control

    This is where all this good information will really be helpful. Thanks again :c)

    Phase 4

    Software Interation

    What would be really nice would be to have a full production control system, like plant control for factory equipment. So you load the model to print and define the material and some quality / speed paramenter and hit GO. The software would begin heating the chamber and the print head, start the circulation fan, start the extraction fan etc. At the end of the print would be the slow cool down process to minimise shrinkage problems.

    At the beginning of this project I hadn't realised all the work involved, but now that I have started this thread I no longer feel like I am doing it alone.

    Cheers :c)

     

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    Posted · Heated Build Chamber WIP

    Hi!

    Lot of things here!

     

    You can do PID with a solid state relay. They make some solid state AC relays that can take a lot of current. That is what was in a commercial furnace controller I used. It could supply 15 amps @ 120 V. We used it to keep a combustion chamber at 900 C and the temperature at the thermocouple would fluctuate less than 0.1 C.

     

    Good point! In fact a solid state relay have inside same circuit with triac an optocupler we need for this purporse (to sincronize PID with AC frequency) but could be quiet expensive (20-30€).

     

    I probably wouldn't bother with PID control. It can be tough to actively regulate the temperature inside an oven with great precision because the air just takes so long to heat and cool. Because the load on the system is relatively steady state, it seems like it would be better to just use a fixed set point and plenty of insulation. If I were going to use a micro controller, I think I would just get an Arduino Micro or PIC to do the job. Messing around with Marlin is just asking for trouble and you have to jump through hoops with every update.

     

    You are right, but to control temperature like an oven you need an isolated chamber and, by now, mine is just close, but not isolated so i have to be giving heat constantly. Even this i will try with my configuration now, no PID, nothing else just microcontroler on-off, if it works like this is not necesary to change it, i really need now to work on prints and results and stop to be working with the printer, finally i almost invert more time trying to improve the printer that printing... Modify Marlin for this is a hell, i've look at the temperature control files and is a long and hard work and you are right, later with the updates and so on will be a trouble.

     

    I think Marlin already has something to allow g-code to make it send an on/off signal to a sub controller, so you could still use that to signal the heater controller.

     

    I've been looking for this but i found nothing... now i'm triggering the heat chamber with a sensor in the bed when the print finish and the bed gets cold the chamber turn off, it's working.

    Thanks for all this points!

     

    Rai, I am more than convinced that the enclosing of the printer is the way forward, from being able to control the temperature and airflow to extracting the nasty fumes, it has so many benefits. It's a shame that the 2nd extruder temperature control looks like a non starter, but on the plus side, using a Triac seems to be a much better aproach, after a very quick Wikipidia read, they seem to alow a variable alternating current, but my poor tired brain cannot handle electronics at the moment :c) I like the sound of the Triac solution.

     

    As Aviphysics said is better option a solid state relay, it has inside the triac and the configuration is very easy. Don't worry about electronics, there's many people in the forum (included my myself) can help you on that, i can write the circuits and code i use for control temperature. It's not a complicated circuit!!!

    About your project it looks great!!! I would like to get this organization with some of mine but finally i'm just a little mess.

    Are you going to print ABS? Heated bed is one good update for the printer and get zero warping, i would consider that option i get mine in a chinesse store for less than 50€ included the pcb aluminium plate for a base, relay and power supply (and now i also used it for leds, and the 4 extra fans i use for air flow and electronics) and is really easy to install.

    There's a lot of info in the web and we can also help you here.

    Cheers.

    Rai.

     

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