Ugly bottom half.

[Armatron 2]

Ive been trying to get this DND d8 to print me a good die. I have a lulzbot mini.... older version.... im using inland 3d Pla+  ... ill be moving to miniatures next..   If you look at the photo the top half looks fairly good. but the bottom is a wreck. Normal supports, touching buildplate. i could some good ole advise on this. thanks for any help.

[GregValiant 1,143]

It will need supports no matter how you do it.  Have you tried with a flat side on the build plate?

To print with a point down you will need to tweak the supports.

[Armatron 2]

Thanks for the advice it really did help out.  Printed well ... my only issue is i hate having to sand all the way down to get to my number.....lol..   ill also have to see if ironing helps on the last pic. thanks Greg

[GregValiant 1,143]

The model won't stick to the support as well if the support has a chance to cool.  That's a problem on a small model like that because the nozzle is coming back while the support interface is still pretty hot.  You get good bonding when none is wanted.

Support on angled surfaces present a bigger problem than when you support a flat ceiling.  Once again it's a cooling thing.

 

The best solution for small models is to print two parts at once.  If stringing between the prints is an issue then you may not want to do that but it's a pretty good option as the prints have more time to cool.

 

Cura has a setting in the Material Settings for "Support" flow and for "Support Interface" flow.  You might try setting them back to 90%.  Weak support is easier to remove.

 

In the end, all of us have to do some bench work to clean models up.

[Armatron 2]

After several bad attempts. Some stabilization of mini. And making sure i had a good x/y level. I got this.   Man it started out so well, then something happened, not sure if some string happened or what... I can still use some help.. Thanks

[Armatron 2]

Here is a closer look at each of them. Not sure why they started to melt.  my temp is set at 200 and bed is 60

[GregValiant 1,143]

I don't think it melted.  It looks more like you have a partial blockage in the hot end.

What printer is that?  On a bowden printer - if the bowden tube backs away from the back end of the nozzle it creates a gap and molten plastic can get pulled into the gap creating a blockage.  Not enough to miss steps, but enough to cause severe under-extrusion.  It's a popular problem with Creality hot ends and a few others.

[Armatron 2]

lulzbot mini

 

[Armatron 2]

Thanks for the help, Greg. i was still unable to get 2 items to print at once. But i was able to start making better singles.  in increased the flow by 5% and it did wonders. Any other tips?

[Armatron 2]

This the profile settings if i did this correctly.  If you have the time and patience, can you help out an old dog to make a better print.  OLD as in over 60+....lol

LM2SE05MM_d6.3mf

[GregValiant 1,143]

You're a puppy.

• You have a .5 nozzle and the 0.3 Initial Layer Height is fine in most cases, but this model has text on the bottom and you want good definition.  Drop the Initial Layer Height to 0.2.
• HA.  I caught you cheating.  You were going to use these to beat the grandkids at their game weren't you?  WEIGHTED DICE!!!!  It will always come up "2" (or maybe 3...I dunno.).
  • Using the lightning infill it's all on one side.  I would change that to grid so it's centered.  It's a small model and will print quick.
• It's too bad they didn't chamfer the edges of the numerals.  It would have totally eliminated the need for any support.  You may be able to print this without support though.  I don't use supports on XYZ calibration cubes and they come out fine.
• In most cases and with a .4 nozzle I consider 3 walls and 4 top/bottoms to be a minimum.  With black filament there shouldn't be an issue but sometimes the infill can be seen or even leave impressions on the outside when you use less than 3 walls.  You have that .5 nozzle though so 2 should be fine.
• I think the numerals will be crisper if you set "Extra Skin Wall Count" to 0.  Again, the model is small.  On a larger model it wouldn't matter.
• Enable "Monotonic Top/Bottom order" for this model.  Monotonic can cause a lot of extra movement but it leaves a nicer finish.
• Infill - Grid at 10% density (cheating your grandchildren...terrible).
• You have a lot of flows set to 105%.  That may indicate you need to calibrate your E-steps.  If you have a magnifying glass inspect a top surface.  The extrusions should be flat and welded together.  Gaps (under-extrusion) or ridges (over-extrusion) can be tuned by adjusting the flow but your base should be with all flows at 100%.  Don't use a "single wall calibration cube".  Just sayin'.
• You really don't want the speed changing all the time.  Good consistent pressure in the nozzle gives more consistent results.  When you speed up and slow down for different features it causes the nozzle pressure to fluctuate and that will transfer to the print.
• I changed the infill to grid and the line directions to [45,90] so the "4" on top will be better supported.

I will post the 3mf file I created but you have to promise not to cheat babies.

 

Back to football.

 

 

 

 

GV__LM2SE05MM_d6.3mf

[Armatron 2]

Wow, that is a lot of I don't know what I'm doing...... that's why i needed help.  And cheating grandkids is the only way grandpa wins. Haha.... i hope i can show you how this turns out... you might have saved me a ton of changes..  Thank you

[Armatron 2]

So both lefts are the old version i did before you looked at it and the right is after. I did make one change, and that was to make the walls from a 2 to a 3.  How you described that it could be seen through just made me cautious.  On another note, i would like to clarify that i have some very young nieces and nephews but no grandkids yet ... my daughter is 17 so i got some time. But dad would love to have some before i hit 80.   Hahaha

[GregValiant 1,143]

Every printer has a "sweet spot" where it just works well.  On some that is a narrow range and when you get outside of it the print quality falls off.  I tried to calibrate and tune my Ender 3 Pro for a wide sweet spot.  That allows small models to be printed with precision and a good finish and large models to be printed with speed and still maintain the good finish.

 

I have three Ender 3 Pros installed in Cura and I have 3 settings profiles.  1 each for PLA, for PETG, and for TPU.  The reason for three printers is that I wanted different startup gcodes for each material.  Ex:  Putting down purge lines with TPU at 40mm/sec wasn't going to work.

 

The three settings profiles give me a good starting point for each material.  After that it's all about the model.  Do I want Normal or Tree supports.  Do I want to go slow and have nice precise corner features or can I just smoke through it at 120mm/sec because it doesn't matter.  I found that giving each model it's own love works best.  Getting 3 hours into a 6 hour print and having to abort because it's coming out unacceptable is in and of itself unacceptable.

[Armatron 2]

Finally able to print 2 without stringing and just plain ugly... now i just need a few tweaks and presto Chango magic happens and i sand and paint..... Once again, Thank you to all that may have looked and helped.

[Armatron 2]

Oh and that last note you sent... G code it seems i have to move the filament down each time before it prints.  it retracts way to much and i can sometimes only get a few rounds down before the print starts. ideas?

[Armatron 2]

look at this one... ive tried to print it just once at that size and it was 18hr... i am hoping that with this new setup i can get it more manageable and looking nice.

pieta.stl

[GregValiant 1,143]

 

First the Print Start problem:

I think it's in your Ending Gcode and considering that it is well written I have to believe it's intentional.

A print ends like this:

G1 X83.029 Y95.364 E1176.83319 ;Last extrusion of the print.
;TIME_ELAPSED:52974.955103
G1 F1500 E1170.33319 ;Retract 6.5mm (per your retraction settings in Cura)

 

Following that the ending Gcode has these extruder commands:
G92 E5 ; set extruder to 5mm for retract on print end
M117 Cooling please wait ; progress indicator message on LCD
G1 X5 Y5 Z183 E0 F3000 ; This is an additional retraction of 5.0 so the filament is now 11.5 back from the nozzle.
G1 E5 ; re-prime extruder ;This leaves the filament 6.5 back from the nozzle.

 

After this existing line:

G1 E5 ; re-prime extruder

Add these three lines:

G92 E0 

G1 E{retraction_amount}

G92 E0

 

That will take up the 6.5mm slack that is occurring now and your prints should start better.  The {retraction_amount} is a Cura replacement word and Cura will insert a number when the gcode is created.  The curly brackets are required.

 

The Pieta:

That is a very nice model.

I'm more of an industrial guy @kmanstudios hasn't been around much lately but he's more of the artsy type and would be a better choice to give advice here.

I did take a shot at slicing it.  I don't know how appropriate it would be for your printer.

If you open the 3mf file Cura will ask you if you want to "Update Current" printer and profile.  I would strongly suggest that you change both to "Create New".  That way your current printer and profile won't be overridden by my setup.

 

This came out at 9:11 and that is mostly due to increasing some of the speeds.  Remember that these are suggestions as you know your printer best.

GV_pieta.3mf

 

 

 

 

[Armatron 2]

Thanks for the help on the retraction..... I imported the model, and it was only 11.5 hrs... which means in mini speak 20hrs.... i can always 1.5 the given time on splicing to get the real time.

[Armatron 2]

ACK,, it seems i forgot to turn on supports for everywhere and that was quite pricey in time. 14.4 hrs now. Oh well, surely the wife won't mind the noise all night long.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

16 hours ago, GregValiant said:

@kmanstudios hasn't been around much lately

Believe it or not, I am here every day. I just do not have much to say. But, I am here every day. 🙂 It is part of my 'morning rounds.' And, I would be happy to take a look at models and such.

 

Going through the thread, it seems to not be a model issue, but a time issue. I am known for my two week prints. Seriously.....

 

So, for time, I may not be the guy to ask as my priority has been the quality of how it looks, not time.

Edited November 14, 2022 by kmanstudios

[GregValiant 1,143]

@kmanstudios long time no hear from nonetheless.

 

How about if you pretend time is not an issue and give it a slice?  I'm good at printing "angle iron brackets" so this is a bit out of my comfort zone.  Mr. Buonarroti would be horrified if he saw what I would do to it.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

22 minutes ago, GregValiant said:

@kmanstudios long time no hear from nonetheless.

 

How about if you pretend time is not an issue and give it a slice?  I'm good at printing "angle iron brackets" so this is a bit out of my comfort zone.  Mr. Buonarroti would be horrified if he saw what I would do to it.

Sure,

 

Edit: I am looking at the 3mf file....duhhhhh

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by kmanstudios

[kmanstudios 1,120]

And this is where my limitations since the stroke.....I got 9 hours, but cannot see any support structure in the slice. I am completely unfamiliar with anything but a UM S5 on the hardware end and know what to expect when it comes to supports and things like that.

 

Will continue to investigate. Supports are on but seems to not be generated. Will see what I can figure out, but.....

 

[kmanstudios 1,120]

OK...this is what I got. I left the tree supports on, turned on supports everywhere and printing time shows as just over 10 hours.

 

LM2SE05MM_GV_pieta.3mf