Firmware 8.1.0 - Where did everything go?

[satyshurp 4]

Is there a way to block firmware updates on the S5? For a while, our IT security was inadvertently blocking the updates, but I guess that changed recently. Either the machines automatically updated to 8.x or a 'helpful' user decided to press the buttons to start the upgrade. Either way, I would like to block the update to 8.x until this is sorted out.

[Dustin 129]

Not sure how they would block the updates without breaking other cloud functionality..

However, its not possible for the machine to "auto update" it requires the user to select update from the screen.

[satyshurp 4]

Thanks for the info. I suspect in our case the printers were allowed to access our local network, but blocked from accessing the wider internet. I never enabled any of the cloud functionality on them, so I can't say if that worked or not. The few times I needed to update firmware, I needed to download the file from your website and copy to a USB key to perform the update.

[othermod 4]

I'll just chime in to also say that the ability to reprint or duplicate a print is a feature we require where I work. I just updated a dozen of our S5s before realizing the features were nerfed. I'm glad I didn't update the other 30 yet. Now I'm concerned that the large S7 order we are placing needs to be cancelled because those probably won't work on older firmware.

 

We operate these on a closed network with no internet access, and they will never connect to the internet.

[smNOVT 9]

Hello,

this is my first post, so I hope it gets the approval by one of the moderators.

 

Today, I also had to find out the lack of these functions that are important to us.

I find it outrageous that there was no warning and that a return to a previous firmware version is not possible in a simple way.

De facto the use of the cloud is forced through the back door. And we don't want that.

I tried it but couldn't find any real added value for us.

 

First of all, it is an incredible thing that elementary functions are simply gone, but in addition this basically happened secretly.

Yes, certainly it is in the changelogs, but I don't see them on the device.

What I see on the device is the update request. And this update can be initiated by anyone passing by.

There are actually a lot of handy functions (which even self-made printers offer) which uLTImAKER as a manufacturer that aims at professional users, does not provide.

Basically, this includes exactly that more can be done in the local network. You should work on such things!

 

In addition, I had problems with the update - the printer hung when restarting and in the log data there were many errors listed.

It was a bit nerve-wracking to pull the power plug.

After the relief that the printer is still booting, the disillusionment came.

 

It sounds like mockery when you get as a second web search result for the keywords "Ultimaker Firmware 8 features GONE", a site with the title "Ultimaker firmware: Enhanced Performance With Every Update".

How funny.

 

As a customer, it is very important to me that functions that I bought and that have contributed to my purchase decision are preserved.

And I think this is absolutely understandable, isn't it?

 

Your excuses are ridiculous:

"The reason we want to move away from the management console on the printer is the limited processing power on the printer."

That may explain that some new performance-hungry functions aren't possible, but until now the power was enough for the current features.

[gr5 2,167]

This is why all software updates terrify me.  Not just 3d printer related.  I miss windows XP.  My S5 firmware is, I believe, from before digital factory came out.  Maybe it's newer but it's certainly at least a year old.

[tomnagel 126]

Reprinting will come back in firmware version 8.1.2. I expect it will be released within a week.

[Ottoclav 3]

First off, whats with the limited reactions to posts? Ridiculous. Second, The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Telling me that I have to operate on a network that I have no physical access to is essentially extortion, even if the Digital Factory has a free option, I'm operating on a clean sterile local network at a worksite that has sketchy internet access anyway. My supervisor is the guy that cancels prints and checks on them after hours, since I don't have that kind of clearance. I've lost my reprint commands in the Management Console, which means I essentially have to recompile all my gcode for many of my products, almost each and every time I want to print. If we wanted the Digital Factory, we would have signed up for it. This reeks of the Hasbro and WoTC scandal earlier this year, when they attempted to pull an OGL update that attempted to funnel TTRPG players into their ONED&D architecture.

Why would ANYBODY think it was a good idea to remove a reprint option or a video monitoring system that functioned pretty well on the hardware that these printers have, to save the hardware? It doesn't make any sense, UNLESS you added some crazy features that need additional computational power AT ALL moments of the printing process. Is that what happened? Are there new and totally useful features in the update that we haven't been notified of?

I stand with rachael7 and MaxD and the many others that we used these features regularly and at least for me, this update crippled at least a day of my workload, just from the losing the reprint option in Management Console, and the feastures that came with Local Network Functionalilty. These are pretty great printers, and I've had a lot less problems with them than my supervisor who really hates them and wants to just smash them and buy competitor products. Now I have to spend my time reverting back to the previous firmware so that my supervisor doesn't flip a lid when he finds out that we lost our main functions.

[gr5 2,167]

1 hour ago, Ottoclav said:

Now I have to spend my time reverting back to the previous firmware so that my supervisor doesn't flip a lid when he finds out that we lost our main functions.

Or wait a bit for 8.1.1?  Sometimes going back a version on the s-line printers is easy but not this time.  You have to remove covers and do a firmware recovery and it also will reset the database and everything (everything?  Maybe?)  stored (old gcode files, possibly network settings, possibly calibration data such as XY calibration values for known print cores).

 

To clarify - it's rare that you have to do a firmware recovery to revert but occasionally the changes can't be undone using firmware installer that was written before the latest firmware version (I hope that makes sense).

 

[ESokkoEVBL 9]

Very disappointed in the latest firmware. As many have said it might just not be a possibility for some of us to run any cloud connections. At best I managed to create a connection to the printer via printer network but it has no connection to the internet. Via VPN I cannot see the video feed either.

 

With the latest firmware we are kind of crippled. Manageable but annoyed compared what is was on the last stable 7.x.x firmware. Biggest drawbacks for our company so far has been the inability to duplicate prints, reprint, see easily the video feed, overall connection speed from computers to management console. Although we did use DF for maintenance scheduling but that's about it as we are unable to send anything via cloud (DF).

 

Our company policies & customer agreements state very clearly that no IP can leave our servers rendering cloud systems as a big no-no. And our company ain't willing to take any agreement risks for a very miniscule part of the company actions. 3D printing isn't our primary field but it supports it but at the end its a very minor topic in the grand scheme of things. With the management console + printer IP-address operating S5 was doable.

 

At this point I'm reconsidering getting further expansions of UM-printers as the management of the printer is nerfed. On top of it I can't create statistically sound business case to expand our printing capabilities as history is now gone. I had relatively good data for the past 12 months with usage time over 70%.

 

Edit: I have to add something positive though. I've noticed more functionalities on the printer itself which a very welcome change. Such as showing how many prints are in queue and what has to be done to print next in a more clear fashion. Also the possibility to override the possible changes. 🙂 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by ESokkoEVBL

[PizzaTijd 12]

While I am still incredibly disappointed in the removal from local features (just like others, due to policy we can't store our files on 3rd party servers), the reintroduction of reprint is already a step in the right direction.

I was wondering tho; does this include the duplicate print option that we could do in the past? Reprint itself would be reprinting from the history; but what about duplicating things still in the queue?

Edited March 7, 2023 by PizzaTijd

[tomnagel 126]

The message is already loud and clear. I have apologized for the poor communication around this change that we made, and apart from that we underestimated the amount of users that would be affected by this.

We are listening, and we're bringing back reprinting to the local management console (and by the way, also the duplicate print job function). We're bringing it back soon, I expect within a week as I said earlier today.

Some things we will not bring back. The functionality where we group printers will not return. 

 

I'm not sure why multiple people are complaining about losing the camera feed. It is still available via the (trimmed) management console. @OttoclavWhat happens when you go to the management console, and press on the blue round camera button?

 

And thank you @ESokkoEVBL for your positive note at the end.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by tomnagel

[rachael7 73]

6 hours ago, tomnagel said:

I'm not sure why multiple people are complaining about losing the camera feed. It is still available via the (trimmed) management console. @OttoclavWhat happens when you go to the management console, and press on the blue round camera button?

 

People are complaining for lots of perfectly valid reasons that have been detailed repeatedly in this thread; I suggest you dial back the umbrage and listen more. The only way to get the crippled management console once you put the printer on Digital Factory is if you also leave the firewall disabled. Even those of us who might consider connecting our printers to an outside server would be crazy to do so without also enabling the firewall. That you would even suggest people connect their printers to your cloud and leave them unprotected from intrusion belies an incredible level of ignorance about your customers needs and how companies work out in the real world.

 

I'm glad UM has deigned to bring back the queue functions, but I remain extremely disappointed that the other functions have been made cloud-only and I find your approach to dealing with justifiably angry customers both arrogant and offensive. Your PR skills need major improvement and UM needs to seriously reevaluate both the decisions they are making right now as well as their process for arriving at such decisions. Make no mistake, this episode will have lasting effects on UM's bottom line. If UM was smart, they'd be undoing this mess as fast as they could and being contrite with their customers instead of condescending.

[gr5 2,167]

I don't think Tom Nagel isn't being condescending.  I think you are reading emotion from his post that isn't there.  Please, always assume the poster is calm when you read posts that don't have any emojis.  If you see language that implies the poster is angry ask if there is another possiblility.  I have to do this myself all the time.  I think someone is angry - reread the post and realize I was just assuming.

 

He is just asking for more information about the camera feed.  I've read this whole thread and I'm still a bit confused about this camera issue - please explain in more detail.  Is the feature there or not?  Tom says it is.  Are you saying the camera works but only with the firewall off?  And you need the firewall on?  but you also want network connection to the printer which also needs the firewall off?  I don't use any network functions on my s-line printers so I am just trying to understand.

 

By the way, just to clarify, I don't work for Ultimaker and I never have.  I'm a user.

[rachael7 73]

16 minutes ago, gr5 said:

He is just asking for more information about the camera feed.  I've read this whole thread and I'm still a bit confused about this camera issue - please explain in more detail.  Is the feature there or not?  Tom says it is.  Are you saying the camera works but only with the firewall off?  And you need the firewall on?  but you also want network connection to the printer which also needs the firewall off?  I don't use any network functions on my s-line printers so I am just trying to understand.

 

The camera feed can be viewed through either the app or a web browser, using the local network. The Digital Factory has no live camera feed, only a still picture that refreshes every 10 seconds. You can still use the app or web browser on the local net, even if the printer is connected to Digital Factory, so Tom is correct as far as that goes. However, if you turn on the firewall, the app and web browser connections on the local net no longer function - the firewall limits the printer to connecting ONLY to Digital Factory and no other connections are allowed. That is how the firewall makes it "safe"-ish to expose the printer to the internet. Tom's contention that you can still use the camera feed locally even when connected to Digital Factory is true only if you do not enable the firewall, and connecting your printer to the internet with no firewall is just ridiculously risky. No company with any understanding of IT would allow such an arrangement. So while it is theoretically possible to use both Digital Factory and the live camera view, in actual real life, almost no one would use that configuration. It is either DF+firewall and no live camera, or live camera feed through the local network with no DF.

[tomnagel 126]

Indeed, when the firewall on the printer is enabled, you loose all local access, including the camera stream.

 

5 hours ago, rachael7 said:

and connecting your printer to the internet with no firewall is just ridiculously risky

Why are you saying this? Connecting the printer to Digital Factory is not the same as "connecting your printer to the internet". You should never expose your Ultimaker printer to the internet without any router and firewall in between.

There is security documentation on our support pages that you may want to study. 

 

It is perfectly responsible to connect your printer to Digital Factory and not have the firewall on the printer enabled. 

 

 

 

 

 

[tomnagel 126]

I can add to that: the decision to enable the firewall in your printer is independent of using Digital Factory or not. 

Enabling the firewall in the printer protects the printer from threats on you local network. 

[rachael7 73]

2 minutes ago, tomnagel said:

Connecting the printer to Digital Factory is not the same as "connecting your printer to the internet".

Of course it is. Where are the servers for the "Digital Factory"? And how is the connection made to them? The servers our outside the facility and the connection is made to them via the internet. That is literally how the data is transmitted. How could you say otherwise? I am simply not interested in any management scheme for my printer that has data passing in or out of my facility. Several other people have already told your their companies enforce that by policy. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[rachael7 73]

And I will add that repeatedly lecturing us to read the security documentation is exactly the sort of response that comes across as arrogant and condescending. The people in this thread don't all have control of their companies IT policies. Many of them told you that they aren't allowed to connect their printers to the internet at all. And you keep lecturing us to read your security documentation as if that is going to change anything.

[ESokkoEVBL 9]

Regarding the camera functionality:

 

In the previous firmware the response to check the camera feed was a lot better. From Cura or management console. As previously mentioned, I did not have access via DF so the camera there was always black for me. Response time to get image and see the head moving was a lot faster! A second or so the get immediately updating image feed.

 

In the current firmware (8.1.1.0) when clicking on the camera icon, it takes 3-5 seconds to see full image. This is like downloading an image via extremely slow internet and you see chunks appearing top-bottom fashion. After the full image appears another 5-10 seconds before the image starts updating every 4 seconds or so.

 

Although I understand the point that pretty much the only point of the camera is to see one or more of the following issues: spaghetti, shifted print, shifted build plate, no extrusion etc. It is in a way good enough for that.

[domwhitete 1]

7 hours ago, gr5 said:

I don't think Tom Nagel isn't being condescending.  I think you are reading emotion from his post that isn't there.  Please, always assume the poster is calm when you read posts that don't have any emojis.  If you see language that implies the poster is angry ask if there is another possiblility.  I have to do this myself all the time.  I think someone is angry - reread the post and realize I was just assuming.

I think Tom had got a tad hostile I'm afraid, but he then later edited that part out.

 

Anyway, hopefully the end result of this situation will be that next time UltiMaker make a significant change they might undertake some VOC feedback BEFORE removing features that large, loyal customers happen to rely on for their workflows.

 

[smNOVT 9]

2 hours ago, tomnagel said:

I can add to that: the decision to enable the firewall in your printer is independent of using Digital Factory or not. 

Enabling the firewall in the printer protects the printer from threats on you local network. 

What kind of threat from my local network should that be? If there's a threat from there, then I guess access to my 3D printer is the smallest problem I have.

And we all agree that attacks from the Internet are much more likely than those from the LAN, right?

 

Well, I'm no software developer, so my question is: What is the reason to remove such relatively simple but useful functions from a firmware?
I would guess that the things like the "reprint", the job history, the maintenance reminder and the statistics are not features that would mean a lot of future development effort.
They are already there. Period.

 

Another question:
Is Ultimaker a company that puts its own sensitive CAD files, electronics or software data on a cloud server that is controlled by another (relatively small) company?
After all, you also have IP that you do not want to give outside where it's not in your hands to protect the data.

 

Concerning my first post:
Yes, that one was definetly quite emotional.

I think it's not uncommon to get emotional when things you need for good reasons are taken away from you without telling you before.

[tomnagel 126]

1 hour ago, smNOVT said:

What kind of threat from my local network should that be? If there's a threat from there, then I guess access to my 3D printer is the smallest problem I have.

I don't know. That is up to you. Maybe someone has gained access to your WiFi, and is snooping around. Then the firewall in the printer would still be an extra layer of security. But I agree with your analysis that access to your 3D printer is then not your biggest problem.

 

1 hour ago, smNOVT said:

And we all agree that attacks from the Internet are much more likely than those from the LAN, right?

Correct. And the infrastructure in your company protects everything inside your LAN from attacks from the internet. 

When your printer is connected to Digital Factory, this does not make your internal network more vulnerable, that is simply a misperception. 

Communication with the cloud happens only on initiative of the printer, and all communication with our DF servers is encrypted.

 

1 hour ago, smNOVT said:

Well, I'm no software developer, so my question is: What is the reason to remove such relatively simple but useful functions from a firmware?
I would guess that the things like the "reprint", the job history, the maintenance reminder and the statistics are not features that would mean a lot of future development effort.
They are already there. Period.

I'm afraid it's not that simple.

 

1 hour ago, smNOVT said:

Another question:
Is Ultimaker a company that puts its own sensitive CAD files, electronics or software data on a cloud server that is controlled by another (relatively small) company?
After all, you also have IP that you do not want to give outside where it's not in your hands to protect the data.

Actually: Yes. Everything is stored in the cloud. We used to store things on Microsoft cloud services, and recently we switched to Google cloud services. Also company sensitive stuff. Personally, I think it's a bit old fashioned to say that the cloud is a risk to your critical business. 

 

 

[tomnagel 126]

Not meant to be condescending, but you may want to read this article: https://support.makerbot.com/s/article/1667411337398

 

[smNOVT 9]

20 minutes ago, tomnagel said:

I'm afraid it's not that simple.

Could you explain that just a little bit more? Not extremely detailed, but just a little bit to make me understand the scope of something like that. As I mentioned, I'm a layman concerning that.

 

22 minutes ago, tomnagel said:

Actually: Yes. Everything is stored in the cloud. We used to store things on Microsoft cloud services, and recently we switched to Google cloud services. Also company sensitive stuff. Personally, I think it's a bit old fashioned to say that the cloud is a risk to your critical business. 

The difference is that you are giving your data voluntarily to a cloud provider.
We don't. To get the functionality we had a few days ago, we have to provide data to you. I think, that this is a huge difference.

 

And coming back to the reduction of local fuctions and thinking crazily further:
In case there's no Ultimaker B.V. anymore, then there also won't be a DF anymore, right?