I just did my first ever firmware install, however it did not help, i just ordered a cr touch, ill install that tomorrow and see how it goes
thanks for your help
30 minutes ago, th31nfamous said:I just did my first ever firmware install, however it did not help
If you just did your first ever firmware install but it did not hurt, you're doing better than I did 🙂
My next suggestion would be "do a factory reset of the settings" - I'm guessing it's somewhere in the menus, I just couldn't tell you where.
Oh, and I only just realised I should mention, at least on the Ender-3 V2 Neo (which comes with a CR-Touch preinstalled) but probably any Ender-3 v1 or v2 that the CR-Touch does not do auto Z offset. It exclusively does ABL. I don't know about a BL-Touch, I've never used one.
The Ender-3 V3 series does do auto Z offset, but that's because it has force gauges under the bed which measure the pressure from the levelling probe.
7 hours ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:If you just did your first ever firmware install but it did not hurt, you're doing better than I did 🙂
My next suggestion would be "do a factory reset of the settings" - I'm guessing it's somewhere in the menus, I just couldn't tell you where.
Oh, and I only just realised I should mention, at least on the Ender-3 V2 Neo (which comes with a CR-Touch preinstalled) but probably any Ender-3 v1 or v2 that the CR-Touch does not do auto Z offset. It exclusively does ABL. I don't know about a BL-Touch, I've never used one.
The Ender-3 V3 series does do auto Z offset, but that's because it has force gauges under the bed which measure the pressure from the levelling probe.
So since the CR Touch does not do auto Z offset and won't use the Z limit switch, hopefully that will solve my problem. Was that your point ?
no. If you are seeing the z offset value changing on the display between manually setting it and running the gcode, you have something very wrong in the printer or in the gode. It is possible that you have a busted mainboard that is corrupting the register (there are a pile of ways this can happen) for z offset or the code has a line it in that setting it (that should be harder to do with marlin which I'm guessing you are using).
does this happen with ALL your gcode or only one file?
12 minutes ago, jaysenodell said:no. If you are seeing the z offset value changing on the display between manually setting it and running the gcode, you have something very wrong in the printer or in the gode. It is possible that you have a busted mainboard that is corrupting the register (there are a pile of ways this can happen) for z offset or the code has a line it in that setting it (that should be harder to do with marlin which I'm guessing you are using).
does this happen with ALL your gcode or only one file?
The Z offset doesn't change on the screen, it is at 0.00 when the print start, i have to manually change the z offset to correct the height after the print start, here's a picture of a mark i made on the threaded rod correctly aligned in the home position, when i start the print, notice how the position of the mark change. (See the black little line next to the opening of the collar on the threaded rod)
It does happen to all the g codes.
I think that's a hardware problem. Somthing is loose or slipping. go over everything again from top to bottom. Make sure your gantry Z is secure. On my duel screw ender 3, there is some play in the gantry Z, but the screws are dead to nuts every time.
Wait for @Slashee_the_Cow to comment on exactly what hardware points to check. My E3S1P gantry may be signifcantly different and maybe slop is ok for the E3 Neo?
So before all this let me say: if you could please post a couple of gcode files you've printed on it that have had this problem, then we can have a look at them and double check to make sure nothing screwy is going on in there.
1 hour ago, th31nfamous said:So since the CR Touch does not do auto Z offset and won't use the Z limit switch, hopefully that will solve my problem. Was that your point ?
Is there even a Z limit switch at the bottom? If there is... you shouldn't want to be using it because you don't want to have the plate as low as it can possibly go. On an Ender-3 v2, the CR-Touch only does auto bed levelling (bad name for it), it measures the difference in height between a bunch of locations so it can then be accounted for in the firmware (like making the first layer a teensy bit taller at one point because that part of the bed is a fraction of a millimetre lower than the reference point, usually splits the difference between the first 10 or so layers so that it's not obvious at any particular point).
It can't measure Z offset because it can't know exactly when the nozzle is touching the bed, and it can't measure it using its probe because the sensor isn't guaranteed to be at the exact same height on every printer, especially when added after the fact, so the height differential between the nozzle and the probe can't be relied upon.
The V3 series has a force sensor embedded under the home position so that when it levels, it can know how close the nozzle is getting to the bed based on the pressure applied (because the probe, when extended, can only be moved back by a very short distance and then when it can't get any shorter and if the Z axis is still going down, it will apply more pressure instead of that pressure being absorbed by shortening the probe), and as the ABL sensor is built into the print head its position can be used much more reliably than an external sensor.
I'm not saying you haven't levelled your bed properly, it's just that the surface, while flat to the naked eye, does vary in height a teensy bit across its whole area because it's very hard to manufacture something like it dead flat, no variations whatsoever... and then it goes through wear and tear anyway.
1 hour ago, th31nfamous said:
The Z offset doesn't change on the screen, it is at 0.00 when the print start, i have to manually change the z offset to correct the height after the print start, here's a picture of a mark i made on the threaded rod correctly aligned in the home position, when i start the print, notice how the position of the mark change.
It does happen to all the g codes.
How far into the printing process is the second photo taken? A lot of the time, startup gcode will move the Z axis a bit. And if the Z axis is always the same on screen (like for example you set it to -0.5mm and every time you print it's still showing -0.5mm) then it's almost certainly a hardware problem.
Creality cheaped out on the... sorry, one of the ways Creality cheaped out on the the Ender-3 V1 and V2 is that on most printers (including the V3) the Z axis gantry is held up on two screwed rods (and they cheaped out on that by using a belt to drive one side instead of having a motor on both), but it's just one on the V1 and V2 so it's possible for the gantry to get off-level, one side higher or lower than the other.
If the problem started during a print and the nozzle accidentally hit the print, it could just be that it's lost track of it in the firmware because IIRC it doesn't regularly home the Z axis (it's hella slow, and is expected not to change). You can try running this gcode file to see if it helps, it won't actually print anything, just make it home all the axes so it hits the Z axis switch at the top so it knows for sure where it is on the Z axis, then move it back down to 5cm from the bed. It's possible it might grind a little when it hits the top, that's normal: home_all_axes.gcode
If that doesn't fix it, then you have to look at hardware stuff. There are two common fixes to Z gantry problems an an E3 V2:
1: Make sure the wheels on both ends of the gantry are at the proper tension: if you stick a finger on them you should be able to wiggle it to move them up and down a little bit, but only like 2-3 millimetres or so, max (if you want more precise guidance than that, find someone who has depth perception 🙂). If you can't move it at all when you do that, it's too tight and needs to be loosened. If you can move it too far when you do that, it needs to be tightened. They use helical nuts so it's not always a "one way loosens, one way tightens" thing, just play with it until you get it right. And make sure it's as close as possible to the same on both sides.
2: In case it's not level, unscrew the top of the frame and turn the Z axis screw to move the gantry up and then off of the thing entirely. Then put the gantry back on making sure to keep it as level as possible. Use the Z axis screw to move it down a little bit. Screw the top of the frame back on and turn the Z axis screw to run the gantry up to the top of its movement and see if it's level.
3D printers are somewhat fickle beasts and tend to always go wrong in ways you'd be surprised how it could go wrong. As @jaysenodell said, it could potentially be a motherboard issue. Creality, while a lot better than some manufacturers, still don't have really great quality control checks. There's also the fun fact that (IIRC) due to the number of Ender-3s they were pumping out, they couldn't always get enough of their normal motherboards and sometimes used different ones which varied in quality.
Please let me know how you go on all of that.
32 minutes ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:So before all this let me say: if you could please post a couple of gcode files you've printed on it that have had this problem, then we can have a look at them and double check to make sure nothing screwy is going on in there.
Is there even a Z limit switch at the bottom? If there is... you shouldn't want to be using it because you don't want to have the plate as low as it can possibly go. On an Ender-3 v2, the CR-Touch only does auto bed levelling (bad name for it), it measures the difference in height between a bunch of locations so it can then be accounted for in the firmware (like making the first layer a teensy bit taller at one point because that part of the bed is a fraction of a millimetre lower than the reference point, usually splits the difference between the first 10 or so layers so that it's not obvious at any particular point).
It can't measure Z offset because it can't know exactly when the nozzle is touching the bed, and it can't measure it using its probe because the sensor isn't guaranteed to be at the exact same height on every printer, especially when added after the fact, so the height differential between the nozzle and the probe can't be relied upon.
The V3 series has a force sensor embedded under the home position so that when it levels, it can know how close the nozzle is getting to the bed based on the pressure applied (because the probe, when extended, can only be moved back by a very short distance and then when it can't get any shorter and if the Z axis is still going down, it will apply more pressure instead of that pressure being absorbed by shortening the probe), and as the ABL sensor is built into the print head its position can be used much more reliably than an external sensor.
I'm not saying you haven't levelled your bed properly, it's just that the surface, while flat to the naked eye, does vary in height a teensy bit across its whole area because it's very hard to manufacture something like it dead flat, no variations whatsoever... and then it goes through wear and tear anyway.
How far into the printing process is the second photo taken? A lot of the time, startup gcode will move the Z axis a bit. And if the Z axis is always the same on screen (like for example you set it to -0.5mm and every time you print it's still showing -0.5mm) then it's almost certainly a hardware problem.
Creality cheaped out on the... sorry, one of the ways Creality cheaped out on the the Ender-3 V1 and V2 is that on most printers (including the V3) the Z axis gantry is held up on two screwed rods (and they cheaped out on that by using a belt to drive one side instead of having a motor on both), but it's just one on the V1 and V2 so it's possible for the gantry to get off-level, one side higher or lower than the other.
If the problem started during a print and the nozzle accidentally hit the print, it could just be that it's lost track of it in the firmware because IIRC it doesn't regularly home the Z axis (it's hella slow, and is expected not to change). You can try running this gcode file to see if it helps, it won't actually print anything, just make it home all the axes so it hits the Z axis switch at the top so it knows for sure where it is on the Z axis, then move it back down to 5cm from the bed. It's possible it might grind a little when it hits the top, that's normal: home_all_axes.gcode
If that doesn't fix it, then you have to look at hardware stuff. There are two common fixes to Z gantry problems an an E3 V2:
1: Make sure the wheels on both ends of the gantry are at the proper tension: if you stick a finger on them you should be able to wiggle it to move them up and down a little bit, but only like 2-3 millimetres or so, max (if you want more precise guidance than that, find someone who has depth perception 🙂). If you can't move it at all when you do that, it's too tight and needs to be loosened. If you can move it too far when you do that, it needs to be tightened. They use helical nuts so it's not always a "one way loosens, one way tightens" thing, just play with it until you get it right. And make sure it's as close as possible to the same on both sides.
2: In case it's not level, unscrew the top of the frame and turn the Z axis screw to move the gantry up and then off of the thing entirely. Then put the gantry back on making sure to keep it as level as possible. Use the Z axis screw to move it down a little bit. Screw the top of the frame back on and turn the Z axis screw to run the gantry up to the top of its movement and see if it's level.
3D printers are somewhat fickle beasts and tend to always go wrong in ways you'd be surprised how it could go wrong. As @jaysenodell said, it could potentially be a motherboard issue. Creality, while a lot better than some manufacturers, still don't have really great quality control checks. There's also the fun fact that (IIRC) due to the number of Ender-3s they were pumping out, they couldn't always get enough of their normal motherboards and sometimes used different ones which varied in quality.
Please let me know how you go on all of that.
Wow that's great info right there, let me start with the GCode from cura
Start G Code
; Ender 3 Custom Start G-code
G92 E0 ; Reset Extruder
G28 ; Home all axes
G1 Z2.0 F3000 ; Move Z Axis up little to prevent scratching of Heat Bed
G1 X0.1 Y20 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move to start position
G1 X0.1 Y200.0 Z0.3 F1500.0 E15 ; Draw the first line
G1 X0.4 Y200.0 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move to side a little
G1 X0.4 Y20 Z0.3 F1500.0 E30 ; Draw the second line
G92 E0 ; Reset Extruder
G1 Z2.0 F3000 ; Move Z Axis up little to prevent scratching of Heat Bed
G1 X5 Y20 Z0.3 F5000.0 ; Move over to prevent blob squish
Actually I just realised something that might help so use this version: home_all_axes.gcode
After homing it disables the endstops and the software endstops (although Creality printers don't always follow these commands), then tries to move the print head above the maximum height, which if disabling the endstops worked, means there will be a bit of grinding from Z motor as it tries to move it above where it can go, but now we can be sure that it's as high as it can go so it tells the printer it's currently at its maximum height then re-enables the endstops and goes back down.
Also while I need to go and git blame whoever wrote that startup gcode, it's the default (so even though it's not great, it's definitely not your fault) but if you can post a couple of the gcode files you've printed that you've had this problem with, there's a lot more to look at to see if it goes awry anywhere.
On 3/29/2024 at 8:26 PM, Slashee_the_Cow said:Actually I just realised something that might help so use this version: home_all_axes.gcode
After homing it disables the endstops and the software endstops (although Creality printers don't always follow these commands), then tries to move the print head above the maximum height, which if disabling the endstops worked, means there will be a bit of grinding from Z motor as it tries to move it above where it can go, but now we can be sure that it's as high as it can go so it tells the printer it's currently at its maximum height then re-enables the endstops and goes back down.
Also while I need to go and git blame whoever wrote that startup gcode, it's the default (so even though it's not great, it's definitely not your fault) but if you can post a couple of the gcode files you've printed that you've had this problem with, there's a lot more to look at to see if it goes awry anywhere.
I tried with that g.code.. however it did not help with the prints i made after this.. 😞 However.. i recevied the CR touch i ordered.. after the install i loaded the correct firmware for it and guess what.. problem is gone.. i ajusted the Z offset for the first time and for all the print i made after that i didn't touch anything and the first layer is always perfect.
Just wanted to say thanks for your help.. i learned lots of things from you and your good explications !!
Have a good day.
Edited by th31nfamous-
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Slashee_the_Cow 436
Have you tried flashing/reflashing the latest firmware? If there's a firmware file on the SD card that has a filename different to the last one you installed, it considers it new and installs that.
BTW: "Improve your 3D prints" is not "Ender-3 Support Forum" so I'm moving this to "third party products & modifications"
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