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Under extrusion but only on columns


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Posted · Under extrusion but only on columns

Alright so this is an issue that i have been facing for ages and i feel like i have tried everything so now i am here looking for help. I print on an OLD monoprice maker select V2 that i finally pulled out of storage and spent a few days cleaning up, lubricating and recalibrating. Everything on it works great now until i get down to printing any sort of column. Then the under extrusion is so bad that that part of the print completely fails.

 

Ive calibrated e-steps, temperatures, speeds, fiddled around with flow rates, printing outer walls first and several other things that i cant quite remember because ive been fuming over it for so long. The last thing that i tried was calibrating retraction settings which ill admit should have been one of the first things. I used the retraction tower from the "AutoTowers Generator 2.6.0" plugin running from 1mm retraction to 6mm retraction. The whole tower printed flawless up until about 5mm retraction but even that part still looked SIGNIFICANTLY better than any of my own towers.

 

So now i know for sure that it is some sort of slicer setting that is hurting me. the settings that are preloaded on the retraction tower work fantastic but i dont know of any way to pull the print settings straight from that auto generated tower so im still lost. The only setting i was able to get from the retraction tower is the setting that was intended, retraction distance, which seemed to have almost zero effect on my own prints.

 

in the pictures below the retraction tower is on the left and my prints that im struggling with are on the right.  You can see that the under extrusion is so bad on the furthest right tower that it didnt even print the tower there was a tiny tiny little skeleton of a tower there that broke off when i pulled the print off the bed but that was it. the strange part is that the columns in the back on my own part printed just fine.

 

I am running cura 5.7.2, retraction tower is from the "AutoTowers Generator 2.6.0" plugin, filament is black hatchbox pla dried in a filament dryer for 4 hours before both of these prints and stored in a drybox. 

 

image.thumb.jpeg.c520ff214a26b93199116853f03bad21.jpeg

 

Below are my slicer settings. i tried to export them but for some reason that is not working so screenshots will have to do for now

 

image.png.9ce0fe680d7e7ab76f45e60bc83763ad.png

image.png.ed6e3a440441bff5af95401352e2200a.png

20240622_130746.jpg

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    Posted · Under extrusion but only on columns

    Off the top of my head the only thing I can think of is Cooling > Minimum Layer Time, if you've just got a column or two on a layer it could be slowing the print (as well as possibly changing the temperature, but I think it defaults to small layers just using the usual print temperature).

     

    If you could post a Cura project file (.3mf, get it set up in Cura then go to File > Save Project) that would help seeing if there's anything that could be improved in your settings.

     

    3 hours ago, Hasslefish said:

    the settings that are preloaded on the retraction tower work fantastic but i dont know of any way to pull the print settings straight from that auto generated tower so im still lost

    Try looking at the end of the gcode file. Normally Cura puts the slicing settings there but I don't know if it would for towers generated by the plugin.

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    Posted (edited) · Under extrusion but only on columns
    5 hours ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:

    Off the top of my head the only thing I can think of is Cooling > Minimum Layer Time, if you've just got a column or two on a layer it could be slowing the print (as well as possibly changing the temperature, but I think it defaults to small layers just using the usual print temperature).

     

    If you could post a Cura project file (.3mf, get it set up in Cura then go to File > Save Project) that would help seeing if there's anything that could be improved in your settings.

     

    Try looking at the end of the gcode file. Normally Cura puts the slicing settings there but I don't know if it would for towers generated by the plugin.

    Here is a copy of the .3mf file that im currently having problems with. I can also load up any number of other parts that I've modeled that are having the same issue if that helps.

     

    MSMV2E3D_Spool roller.3mf

     

    I will go ahead and fiddle around with the minimum layer time right now to see if i can get anything better.

     

    I've also taken a look at the end of the gcode for the retract tower that printed perfectly and it seems to be using all the settings that I use for all my other prints as well which really confuses me because i NEVER get print quality that good on any parts I model myself. (end of gcode for retract tower pasted below)

     

    ;End of Gcode
    ;SETTING_3 {"global_quality": "[general]\\nversion = 4\\nname = Fine (Black Ulti
    ;SETTING_3 maker PLA)\\ndefinition = monoprice_select_mini_v2\\n\\n[metadata]\\n
    ;SETTING_3 type = quality_changes\\nquality_type = normal\\nsetting_version = 23
    ;SETTING_3 \\n\\n[values]\\nadhesion_z_offset = 0.1\\nmaterial_bed_temperature =
    ;SETTING_3  60\\nsupport_enable = False\\nsupport_structure = tree\\nsupport_typ
    ;SETTING_3 e = everywhere\\n\\n", "extruder_quality": ["[general]\\nversion = 4\
    ;SETTING_3 \nname = Fine (Black Ultimaker PLA)\\ndefinition = monoprice_select_m
    ;SETTING_3 ini_v2\\n\\n[metadata]\\ntype = quality_changes\\nquality_type = norm
    ;SETTING_3 al\\nintent_category = default\\nposition = 0\\nsetting_version = 23\
    ;SETTING_3 \n\\n[values]\\nbottom_layers = 8\\ninfill_sparse_density = 10\\ninse
    ;SETTING_3 t_direction = outside_in\\nmaterial_flow = 109\\nmaterial_print_tempe
    ;SETTING_3 rature = 215\\nretraction_amount = 1\\nretraction_min_travel = 0.3\\n
    ;SETTING_3 retraction_speed = 20\\nskin_material_flow = 105\\nsmall_feature_max_
    ;SETTING_3 length = 20\\nsmall_feature_speed_factor = 30\\nsmall_hole_max_size =
    ;SETTING_3  3\\nspeed_print = 30\\ntop_layers = 8\\nwall_0_material_flow = 112\\
    ;SETTING_3 nwall_line_count = 4\\n\\n"]}

     


     

    Edited by Hasslefish
    adding more text
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    Posted · Under extrusion but only on columns
    1 hour ago, Hasslefish said:

    I've also taken a look at the end of the gcode for the retract tower that printed perfectly and it seems to be using all the settings that I use for all my other prints as well which really confuses me because i NEVER get print quality that good on any parts I model myself. (end of gcode for retract tower pasted below)

    Could just be that the plugin makes Cura ignore those values and uses ones from the plugin.

     

    Looks like it adds some comments at the start (this a retraction tower):

    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Post-processing a Distance RetractTower
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Base height = 1.0 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Section height = 8.4 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Initial printed layer height = 0.3 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Printed layer height = 0.2 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Relative extrusion = False
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Starting retraction distance = 0.2
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Retraction distance change = 0.2
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Enable LCD messages = False

    Though those layer heights are just what's part of my normal print profile.

     

    Your layer height could potentially be an issue - there's no hard rule on the minimum layer height for a particular nozzle, it's basically up to the printer (the Z and E steppers mostly) how easily you can pull it off. You could try an easier height like 0.2mm and see if it makes a difference.

     

    Travel > Retraction Distance seems awfully short - I'm guessing an "OLD" printer like that doesn't have a direct drive extruder meaning for PLA you'd probably want to retract around 5mm.

     

    Mesh Fixes > Maximum Resolution is an interesting one in this case. It's the minimum size a feature needs to be in order to be printed, but it's there to help older printers which can't process gcode commands fast enough from having to pause momentarily while they're doing stuff, so I don't know if it would affect your printer. But at 0.5mm you can see it's not even doing enough resolution to do round cylinders (you can see the steps):

    image.thumb.png.141a72ef92f8f7c04e12b74dac729cf2.png

    Setting it to 0.1mm makes it much more circular, but you may have to test to see if your printer chokes on it:

    image.thumb.png.de853272144333a9d2bcaf16012f26dd.png

    These cylinders are incomplete because you have Experimental > Enable Coasting on:

    image.thumb.png.35fc07d1e8af804be7b396a7c782a1a1.png

    Given the size, you'd be having to overextrude a lot in order to need that much coasting. It'd be one of the first things I looked at.

     

    Another problem is that you're making a lot of travel moves between the cylinders:

    image.thumb.png.6c8043222554406e15ba6b1aefd89779.png

    Especially if you're not retracting properly, that certainly doesn't help the situation. It would help if you print the two halves separately, either individually or both on the same plate (but you'd still need to split them into separate files) by setting Special Modes > Print Sequence > One at a Time.

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    Posted · Under extrusion but only on columns
    On 6/23/2024 at 1:20 AM, Slashee_the_Cow said:

    Could just be that the plugin makes Cura ignore those values and uses ones from the plugin.

     

    Looks like it adds some comments at the start (this a retraction tower):

    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Post-processing a Distance RetractTower
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Base height = 1.0 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Section height = 8.4 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Initial printed layer height = 0.3 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Printed layer height = 0.2 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Relative extrusion = False
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Starting retraction distance = 0.2
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Retraction distance change = 0.2
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Enable LCD messages = False

    Though those layer heights are just what's part of my normal print profile.

     

    Your layer height could potentially be an issue - there's no hard rule on the minimum layer height for a particular nozzle, it's basically up to the printer (the Z and E steppers mostly) how easily you can pull it off. You could try an easier height like 0.2mm and see if it makes a difference.

     

    Travel > Retraction Distance seems awfully short - I'm guessing an "OLD" printer like that doesn't have a direct drive extruder meaning for PLA you'd probably want to retract around 5mm.

     

    Mesh Fixes > Maximum Resolution is an interesting one in this case. It's the minimum size a feature needs to be in order to be printed, but it's there to help older printers which can't process gcode commands fast enough from having to pause momentarily while they're doing stuff, so I don't know if it would affect your printer. But at 0.5mm you can see it's not even doing enough resolution to do round cylinders (you can see the steps):

    image.thumb.png.141a72ef92f8f7c04e12b74dac729cf2.png

    Setting it to 0.1mm makes it much more circular, but you may have to test to see if your printer chokes on it:

    image.thumb.png.de853272144333a9d2bcaf16012f26dd.png

    These cylinders are incomplete because you have Experimental > Enable Coasting on:

    image.thumb.png.35fc07d1e8af804be7b396a7c782a1a1.png

    Given the size, you'd be having to overextrude a lot in order to need that much coasting. It'd be one of the first things I looked at.

     

    Another problem is that you're making a lot of travel moves between the cylinders:

    image.thumb.png.6c8043222554406e15ba6b1aefd89779.png

    Especially if you're not retracting properly, that certainly doesn't help the situation. It would help if you print the two halves separately, either individually or both on the same plate (but you'd still need to split them into separate files) by setting Special Modes > Print Sequence > One at a Time.

     This is an absolute ton of information that i am infinitely grateful for. its going to take me a few days to run through it all so im going to go silent for a bit but just know that i am extremely grateful for your help

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    Posted (edited) · Under extrusion but only on columns
    On 6/23/2024 at 1:20 AM, Slashee_the_Cow said:

    Could just be that the plugin makes Cura ignore those values and uses ones from the plugin.

     

    Looks like it adds some comments at the start (this a retraction tower):

    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Post-processing a Distance RetractTower
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Base height = 1.0 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Section height = 8.4 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Initial printed layer height = 0.3 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Printed layer height = 0.2 mm
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Relative extrusion = False
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Starting retraction distance = 0.2
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Retraction distance change = 0.2
    ;AutoTowersGenerator: Enable LCD messages = False

    Though those layer heights are just what's part of my normal print profile.

     

    Your layer height could potentially be an issue - there's no hard rule on the minimum layer height for a particular nozzle, it's basically up to the printer (the Z and E steppers mostly) how easily you can pull it off. You could try an easier height like 0.2mm and see if it makes a difference.

     

    Travel > Retraction Distance seems awfully short - I'm guessing an "OLD" printer like that doesn't have a direct drive extruder meaning for PLA you'd probably want to retract around 5mm.

     

    Mesh Fixes > Maximum Resolution is an interesting one in this case. It's the minimum size a feature needs to be in order to be printed, but it's there to help older printers which can't process gcode commands fast enough from having to pause momentarily while they're doing stuff, so I don't know if it would affect your printer. But at 0.5mm you can see it's not even doing enough resolution to do round cylinders (you can see the steps):

    image.thumb.png.141a72ef92f8f7c04e12b74dac729cf2.png

    Setting it to 0.1mm makes it much more circular, but you may have to test to see if your printer chokes on it:

    image.thumb.png.de853272144333a9d2bcaf16012f26dd.png

    These cylinders are incomplete because you have Experimental > Enable Coasting on:

    image.thumb.png.35fc07d1e8af804be7b396a7c782a1a1.png

    Given the size, you'd be having to overextrude a lot in order to need that much coasting. It'd be one of the first things I looked at.

     

    Another problem is that you're making a lot of travel moves between the cylinders:

    image.thumb.png.6c8043222554406e15ba6b1aefd89779.png

    Especially if you're not retracting properly, that certainly doesn't help the situation. It would help if you print the two halves separately, either individually or both on the same plate (but you'd still need to split them into separate files) by setting Special Modes > Print Sequence > One at a Time.

     

    Ok so I have done a ton of fiddling around with all these settings as well as finding a profile in cura for my exact printer just under a different manufacturer name and I was able to get it printing the columns at a somewhat acceptable quality. 

     

    Now although the columns are printing okay ish, the issue still persists and is making different geometries very difficult to print but I found a model that makes it a lot easier to see what is going wrong. I now have coasting entirely disabled but whenever it makes a travel move it takes too long to start extruding filament again meaning if it makes a travel move to an area with a small feature then its not extruding filament soon enough to print that whole feature. I've included another project file in this post. on the first layer it prints the hexagons but when it moves from a hexagon to start printing one of the circles between the hexagons it doesnt start extruding the filament until its already started moving around the circle so it only prints half the circle AND there is a bit of stringing that starts to cause issues for the rest of the print. 

     

    WDI3_6x6 Multiboard Core Tile.3mf

     

    image.thumb.jpeg.203aa84bd905ab8e72df723309bffac1.jpeg

    image.thumb.jpeg.d25a64768b903d5d091570a3bce43898.jpeg

     

     

    This told me there was an issue with retraction and priming so I started watching the filament when it goes to make a travel move and on this entire first layer it didn't make one single retraction. Id also like to note that I did try another run of this same file with the retraction extra prime amount set to 0.064mm^3 and that didn't make any difference which I would assume is because its not actually making a retraction at all between travels so its also not priming and extra filament. 

     

    Update: I ran the retraction extra prime amount all the way up to 0.256 in 0.064 increments and it still made no changes. I also upped the retraction return speed but again this did nothing as it's not actually retracting between moves. 

    Edited by Hasslefish
    uploaded the wrong .3mf file/ added more info
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