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"Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1


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Posted · "Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1

Hi, just a heads up to let you know that disabling  the feature "Group outer walls" should result in islands printing their walls sequentially, with no travel moves between inner and outer wall. Although i witness that in all prints I do, even though I disable this feature, SOME layers show that inner and outer walls are not printed sequentially.

 

This is a very important feature to fix to enhance print quality!

 

Has anyone noticed this as well?
 

Best

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    Posted · "Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1

    Haven't had any reports on the forums of this (I don't watch the bug tracker on the GitHub repo though).

     

    If you could post a Cura project file (.3mf, get it set up then go to File > Save Project) of something demonstrating this issue that would really help.

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    Posted · "Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1

    This has shown up on GitHub in bug reports.  Disabling the setting seems to fix the problem.  I added an over-ride to my printer definition file to ensure that it is turned off.  Because it is still listed in the Experimental section some folks don't know it's there or what it does.

     

    My personal take on it is that "Group Outer Walls" works fine for small models, but for large models with vertical holes it introduces a lot of travel because all inner walls must complete before the nozzle comes back a second time and prints the outer walls.  It is also complicated by other settings (like combing mode and Monotonic skins).

     

    FYI:  I also have overrides in place for "Skirt Height = 1", and "Support Horizontal Expansion = 0.0".  I don't care to have them enabled by default either.  That's my personal preference rather than there being something wrong with the settings.

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    Posted · "Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1

    Hey Greg, I love your level of expertise. 

    What I have tried to bring awareness to, is that even if this feature is DISABLED, island walls are NOT ALWAYS printed sequentially.

     I am looking for a way to force this behavior and print ALL inner-outer walls sequentially, with no travel in between.

    The issue is that if I keep "Group other walls" disabled, there are always A FEW layers (especially in large models) where island walls are not printed sequentially!

     

    Is there any other way I can additionally enforce this behavior? 
    Travel in between inner-outer walls usually creates holes along the Z-seam line, and I am trying to avoid this at all costs.

     

    I hope I have interpreted your reply in the correct way.

    Any help is much appreciated.


    All the best

     

     

    4 minutes ago, GregValiant said:

    This has shown up on GitHub in bug reports.  Disabling the setting seems to fix the problem.  I added an over-ride to my printer definition file to ensure that it is turned off.  Because it is still listed in the Experimental section some folks don't know it's there or what it does.

     

    My personal take on it is that "Group Outer Walls" works fine for small models, but for large models with vertical holes it introduces a lot of travel because all inner walls must complete before the nozzle comes back a second time and prints the outer walls.  It is also complicated by other settings (like combing mode and Monotonic skins).

     

    FYI:  I also have overrides in place for "Skirt Height = 1", and "Support Horizontal Expansion = 0.0".  I don't care to have them enabled by default either.  That's my personal preference rather than there being something wrong with the settings.

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    Posted · "Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1

    @giorgiod

    I've designed this model with holes and islands.  The project is with Wall Line Count = 2 and that looks good.  With the 8mm holes being close to the Outer Walls, changing the Wall Line Count to 4 definitely introduces a different toolpath for the Inner Walls, but the Outer Walls seem to print when they should and in the correct order.  With the Wall Count = 4, the exact Outer Wall order is being influenced by the Inner Wall path.

    GroupOuterWalls.3mf

    Post one of the files that is giving you problems and I'll take a look.  There could still be a bug here but none of the models I've checked so far have resulted in a "There you are you @#%@#!!" moment.

     

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    Posted · "Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1

    Dear @GregValiant, hopefully I'm here with a sort of Aha! moment. And first of all, thank you for the help you're kindly giving. 

     

    Please preview this Gcode file:
    layer 986 - outer wall printed after inner walls
    layer 894 - outer wall printed after inner walls

    layer 798 - outer wall prints after inner wall BUT start point is different (not sure how can this be avoided)

     

    I must also point out that - for the same model - other islands and holes are being executed properly.

    So these layers are the only exception.

     

    Please also find attached the 3mf file with the exact settings that are being used for this gcode.
    (I could not attach the entire 3d model as I do not hold the rights to this particular shape. I hope that my care about this does not seem an overkill. I hope you are able to make your judgment from the slicing settings).

    Looking forward to receiving your thoughts. (i do think this is a bug!)
    Have a great day

     

    On 6/24/2024 at 11:08 PM, GregValiant said:

    @giorgiod

    I've designed this model with holes and islands.  The project is with Wall Line Count = 2 and that looks good.  With the 8mm holes being close to the Outer Walls, changing the Wall Line Count to 4 definitely introduces a different toolpath for the Inner Walls, but the Outer Walls seem to print when they should and in the correct order.  With the Wall Count = 4, the exact Outer Wall order is being influenced by the Inner Wall path.

     

    Post one of the files that is giving you problems and I'll take a look.  There could still be a bug here but none of the models I've checked so far have resulted in a "There you are you @#%@#!!" moment.

     

     

    Untitled.3mf layer 986-894.gcode

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    • Solution
    Posted · "Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1

    In regards to layer 894 (893 in the preview of the gcode):

    I see that the outer wall of the small island that developed is printed before the inner walls start.  There is no room at that point for a second wall.  I think it is a question of semantics.  It is red in color, but because it is a single walled feature on that layer, it is both an Outer Wall and an Inner Wall at the same time and could just as easily be colored green.

    Because it is an island there is going to be a travel move.  The only way to get rid of the travel move would be to stop the inner wall extrusion next to the island, travel to the island and print the wall, then continue the inner wall of the main body.  An alternative would be to print the single wall of the island and then start the inner wall of the main body immediately adjacent to the island.  That would go against the settings for both "Layer Start X" and "Layer Start Y" which is left front, and "Z-seam location" which is "back".

     

    Looking at the feature on layer 986 things are murkier.  The Inner Wall is part of a loop that encompasses the entire model.  Only the Outer Wall is an island.  Here the nozzle has just traveled from the back to print the only island which is the Outer Wall of the feature.

    image.thumb.png.c3ea76c3672af85c67f7b344fb42e637.png

     

    You have an organically shaped model with very few corners to hide the Z-seam in, but you have chosen "Seam Corner Preference" as "Hide Seam" on a model with very few corners.  I think that is telling Cura to pick the closest place that resembles a corner.  Select "None" might be a better choice.  That might allow the seam to simply remain in the back of the head.

     

    You can submit a bug report if you like.  They go on the GitHub page.  I believe the Cura team is getting ready to release 5.8 so it will be a while before someone looks at it.

     

    I don't know what can be done.  This is a niche problem and at least somewhat model dependent.  This could also be viewed as a situation that simply isn't covered by the current code of the Cura Engine, or it could be viewed as a settings issue.  Neither of those would be considered as bugs.

     

    For myself, it still doesn't look like a bug but rather is a result of things that are happening in very specific areas of the model.

     

    It's a big printer so I can kind of understand the slow speeds, but printing PLA at 28mm/sec is really slow, and the travel speed of 60mm/sec is maybe the slowest travel I've seen.  The slow travel means it will take a long time to move across the print, put down a little extrusion, and then return.  That will also contribute to stringing.

    The "ear lobe" feature on layer 894 is unsupported and it's going to fail.

     

     

     

     

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    Posted · "Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1

    Hey Greg. Thanks to your careful analysis I've been able to find the parameters that apparently solved all the issues - of course until a test print runs, one can't say for sure.

     

    Enabling "Optimize Wall Order" has fixed the 894/893 issue (small island treated as inner wall)

    Setting Travel start point equal to Layer start point has fixed the issue I found for layer 986. 

     

    Thank you so much for your effort and time, I really appreciate it. I hope I can have a chance to give back to the community.

    Kind regards

     

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    Posted · "Group outer walls" feature not working properly in 5.7.1

    Glad to have helped.  That "...the outer wall is an island but the inner wall isn't..." was a head scratcher.

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