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[geert_2 557]

Here a bit more on intellectual property.

 

Take a look at this classic example: imagine you were the first one ever to invent a chair. And then for the beauty of it, you would decorate it with a lot of fine details and ornaments, as you often see in old chairs in castles from the middle ages.

 

Then no one else can copy and re-use the decorative details and ornaments, even not in another piece of furniture like a table or door. Because they are art and fall under the copyright law. Unless you would explicitly give others permission to copy.

 

However, anyone can copy the seating-function, thus the concept of a chair, although without any decorations. Or he could apply his own decoreations. Because purely technical principles do not fall under copyright law. If you wanted to protect the concept of the chair, as a "Method of seating a human body", you would need a patent. (And the chair-concept would have to be something new and inventive of course.)

 

If you would market your chairs under your own brand, let's say "Buttseat", and you have protected this brand (name, logo), then no one can use your name and logo, and put it on his own seats, or on whatever else.

 

This summarises it a bit.

 

People selling Ultimaker-clones under the name and logo of Ultimaker, is clearly a fraud. However, if they would sell a very similar printer under a different name, they are likely to get away with it, unless everything in the Ultimaker would be patent-protected, and model-protected. Copyright law does not apply to technical principles. (This apart from the fact that Ultimakers are open source, so copying is explicitly allowed, if I understood this well?)

 

But for training purposes, almost all masters started out by copying the works of other masters, just to learn the technical basics. Musicians learn play work of others, all great painters made copies of other works in the beginning. Engineers re-calculate existing bridges. Until they know how to do it. And then they develop their own style. Here the purpose is just to learn the techniques, not to copy and parasite on it. To become a master, you have to learn from the old masters. You can't learn from the idiots who can't do anything.

 

And then there are fans who copy pieces of art, not as plagiarism, but rather as a tribute, because they admire the original art so much. Like on Youtube where people make beautiful clips and animations around their favorite music. Legally this is plagiarism. But emotionally it definitely isn't, it is a tribute. So a lot of artists don't mind and even like it and allow it, as long as the fan does not try to make money out of it. But lawyers of big companies generally don't like it: they have a totally different mindset than we do. This is a typical grey area in 3D-printing too.

 

There are lots of such grey areas in intellectual property regulations. So the best thing is to contact the original author, explain what you would like to do, and kindly ask permission. I have already gotten permission to use photos of art paintings as background images on scientific posters. I just explained the purpose, and I also explained that I would need to crop the images, and to change colors so that text on top of it would remain legible. Some artists may not like such "tampering", but very often you get permission.

 

A new trend are "Creative Commons Licenses", which explicitly allow copying and redistribution under certain conditions, depending on the chosen license. For example under the "CC BY-SA" license (Creative Commons - Attribute - Share-alike license): you can copy, modify and redistribute the work, even for commercial purposes. But only on the condition that you credit the original designer, that you do not claim your derivation as the original, and that you apply the same license to your derivative work (so you can not take the existing freedom away). There do exist more restrictive CC-licenses too, e.g.: no derivations allowed, no commercial purposes allowed,... It is worth having a look at these.

 

For 3D-printing, any of your own original creations is automatically copyright protected. But you can give others some copyrights by applying a Creative Commons License to it.

 

However, any technical thing you develop cannot be protected unless you get a patent. Here the CC-licenses have no legal value, and they only serve as a sort of *gentlemen's agreement*. But even then I would recommend applying a license anyway. Most people are going to follow it, because: (1) they are ethical people and want to honor the original designer, and they are rightfully proud of this, (2) they don't know the law well enough, and (3) they want to stay out of doubt or legal trouble. The license tends to make you known, and to prevent others from stealing the work and from claiming they were the original designers, or from assuming it is in the public domain. This is why I usually apply a CC license to my technical designs too.

 

As said, I am not a lawyer, nor specialised in this area. So take this only as a general guideline. And inform yourself further where required.

 

[kmanstudios 1,120]

1 hour ago, geert_2 said:

Then no one else can copy and re-use the decorative details and ornaments, even not in another piece of furniture like a table or door. Because they are art and fall under the copyright law. Unless you would explicitly give others permission to copy.

 

However, anyone can copy the seating-function,

That is the difference between copyrights and patents.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, patents can be just as convoluted.

Edited November 6, 2018 by kmanstudios

[cloakfiend 995]

I would ideally like someone else to deal with all that. Im making a cat for someone at the moment. Im not really bothered if someone scans and copies it as it will never be as good as the original in terms of quality. But it might irritate me if they do a really poor job of it!? 

I have very little technical stuff but i did come up with some very handy modular equipment for my plating which makes setting things up so much easier, but seeing as no one has seen them yet ill worry about that later if i release them.

[geert_2 557]

On 11/6/2018 at 10:12 PM, cloakfiend said:

I would ideally like someone else to deal with all that. Im making a cat for someone at the moment. Im not really bothered if someone scans and copies it as it will never be as good as the original in terms of quality. But it might irritate me if they do a really poor job of it!? 

I have very little technical stuff but i did come up with some very handy modular equipment for my plating which makes setting things up so much easier, but seeing as no one has seen them yet ill worry about that later if i release them.

 

Yes, I do fully understand. I dislike all this legalese too, and I feel the same.

 

The problem is that shareholders, thieves and lawyers often have a totally opposite viewpoint compared to us, technicians, designers, developers and artists. Often they do not understand the concept of creating and sharing artistic and technical beauty. It is the creation, sharing and admiring of this beauty that makes us happy.

 

So I tend to learn the legalese well enough to keep me out of trouble.

 

Applying a license to your work also helps to prevent others from stealing it, and then going to court and claiming that you stole it from them. And thereby excluding you from using your own work, or even forcing you to pay fines and "damage-repairs" to them. This will be very unlikely in your art, but in big-business it is common practice. Especially small technical developers should be aware of this risk (and apply for patents, registration, licenses or other defense mechanisms where appropriate).

 

Don't let all this discourage you, and don't let it bring your enthousiasm down. On the contrary: keep creating so much beauty that these ugly people can't keep up bringing it down. Sort of "out-creating" them, like outrunning.  :-)

 

[cloakfiend 995]

Agree! For me i just want to create beautiful or functional things or beautiful functional things. If people appreciate them all the better. Ill probably release a lot of my stuff as im not fussed at all about it and id rather people enjoyed it as much as i do rather than remaining as files on my machine until i die....a bit morbid lol.

 

I just finished an old man quick sculpt after a few hours, but it was surreal as i went through the undo history and i had basically come up with the form after like 20mins but spent the next 3 hours essentially redrawing the same thing just at a progressively lower angle? Very weird. Not sure if thats a sign of illness or something??? Ill post the vid later but it looks like i animated him moving his head down.....how strange. Or it just highlights my indecisiveness?

Edited November 8, 2018 by cloakfiend

[kmanstudios 1,120]

So, you have no issues with posting your models and letting others claim it and make money off of it?

[cloakfiend 995]

I have no issues with others printing them, but not making money off them. lol. I'm in it for the beauty and pleasure of coming back to a printer with something nice from my brain forged on it. not someone else making it and then selling it to someone else. I remember the feeling of wanting to print something cool when i first got the um2 but struggled for free stuff. now i dont care. i downloaded a bunch of stuff to print with support, but after looking at the models in cura they are all crappy and not designed for printing, and have weird flipped geometry mixed with non welded verts and all sorts of nonsense. back to making things myself.

Edited November 8, 2018 by cloakfiend

[kmanstudios 1,120]

53 minutes ago, cloakfiend said:

I have no issues with others printing them, but not making money off them.

We are on the same page then. That is why I wanted to make the distinction. What I mentioned was that there are some very unscrupulous people who seek to profit off other's hard work and talent, of which you excel in, in both cases.

 

Look at how @flowalistik's work is pilfered for virtually everything under the sun. I have even seen his cool low poly Pokemon creations used in advertisements and as an image accompanying unrelated information. That ticks me off for him.

[cloakfiend 995]

I agree, I'm sure @flowalistik spent some time on those low ploy models getting them right just to have them used and abused by all. I wonder if he has even profited from them?? I'll just have to assume if I release anything someone out there is going to horde it along with everything else they can get there hands on....can you sue if someone uses your stuff in an ad?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Depends on where you are and where they are.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

On the other hand, think how much joy he has produced for people just starting or looking for something cool to print for their young ones.

 

I mean, everybody needs something bulletproof to start a first print with and I cannot think of finer examples. No supports, well crafted and spot on characterizations.

 

And, really, kids do love them.....even us big kids.

[cloakfiend 995]

true. I bet he made a lot of people very happy without even knowing! 

 

in the meantime i've been repeating my nonsense from yesterday. I was fiddling around with my 'quick' sculpt. and only now i realise im going in circles, and now ive ended up on an old version, because all my new ones looked weird, its annoying. i've filmed me making this from a sphere as usual. but ive lost the history now so cant go back. im just gonna print this rough version and see how it looks....

 

 

....I just remembered the very first thing i printed that i made was a sphere as i couldn't sculpt back then, and it didn't look good, but i felt it was possible....somehow, thats what got me so interested 4 years ago...

Edited November 9, 2018 by cloakfiend

[cloakfiend 995]

For the curious heres how I 'draw' these, was about 5 hours. ping ponged at different angles and an edit between days.

 

 

[Brulti 177]

That's incredible. What are your tools of choice: hardware and software?

[cloakfiend 995]

Just an old cintique companion 2, (now called wacom mobile studio) and zbrush, and some imagination....and a lot of playing around. Thats why i bought the cintique companion 2. Its ideal for zbrush. I can just sit on my sofa watching tv and sculpt away for hours without the feeling that ive been sat infront if a computer (its not a perfect machine by any means!!!!)! It was a real game changer for me though. Its has buttons on it which makes it so special. I could not do the same on an ipad pro or surface pro as they dont have phisical buttons. My hand is permanetly on those buttons for instant control, ctrl alt shift space and 2 more programable buttons are essential. Its good enough for me to mess around on thats for sure. My other hand would be on the buttons on the left if it wasnt holding the camera. I pretty much only use this for zbrush and surfing the web. The good thing about doing things myself in zbrush is that i know my mesh will be perfect for 3d printing with no missed welds or any weird geometry like free downloads!!

Edited November 9, 2018 by cloakfiend

[cloakfiend 995]

And...7 hours later printed. The nose wasnt even melted! Thats printing dutch orange at 192, seems to be a sweet spot for me.

Edited November 10, 2018 by cloakfiend

[Smithy 1,144]

Really great!

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Ok, this beastie was one of my first, sorta, successful prints with just the gyroid infill and no walls.

 

What I did to at least get it this far is to tell Cura to use Extruder 2 (PVA) for the walls. This at least gave me some support for the infill. But other than combing, I am not sure what to do to make the edges look better. Still experimenting with other things vis a vis the gyroid. I may still be able to save it.....Heat gunning the crap outta it right now.

 

Spaceshipe design:

 

 

 

Hadda PVA failure in one friggin' spot. grrrrrr, but printed out the part to get replaced when I get around to painting and assembling it.

 

This is the render for what it should look like when assembled.

 

Another spaceship (all bad lines on surface were my fault....found an issue I had incurred a while back while doing something else....so this is not a printer issue):

Rendering for assembled model (and why the funky green things in the earlier pic)

 

And finally, a Fractal Creature. I call it Rockfish, but you can call it Jim....

[Smithy 1,144]

When looking at Jim, you must have used tons of PVA ?

 

Looks great!

[kmanstudios 1,120]

He is not that big, but, it did use a lot. I have learned a few tricks to keep the PVA use down though. Like decrease the support horizontal expansion and decrease the support percentage.

[cloakfiend 995]

I like the look of the giro infill! looks perfect for an aquarium or something!! a house for fishes, Id rinse it in acetone if its pla might help? might not though.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

It is pretty tall. I did think of something along the coral line to disguise the iffyness of the edges. THEN I would tell everybody it was all part of the plan!! ?

[cloakfiend 995]

If you covered it in glue and rolled it in sand im sure it would look like coral. It makes me wanna have a go. That would be a real pain to plate though! Plating and cavities are very tricky! 

 

Im trying to take a step back from worrying about mistakes and small errors and even big ones. Its great im much more relaxed! And as long as i know better for the next time. Paid work is different of course. 

 

I feel I need to do something epic....your spaceships look massive.

Edited November 10, 2018 by cloakfiend

[geert_2 557]

On 11/10/2018 at 7:08 PM, kmanstudios said:

Ok, this beastie was one of my first, sorta, successful prints with just the gyroid infill and no walls.

 

What I did to at least get it this far is to tell Cura to use Extruder 2 (PVA) for the walls. This at least gave me some support for the infill. But other than combing, I am not sure what to do to make the edges look better. Still experimenting with other things vis a vis the gyroid. I may still be able to save it.....Heat gunning the crap outta it right now.

 

 

I was also going to suggest heat gunning the edges, before I read your last line above.  :-)

 

When making dental models 10 years ago, I also used a small but very hot heat gun for smoothing the edges. The trick was to apply *a lot of heat for only a very short time*, so a thin outer layer would melt immediately. But the heat would not be enough to distribute to the inside and melt the whole model. I used a gas burner heat gun with catalytic combustion (=producing just heat but no flame, due to a platinum catalyst), which could easily reach 600°C and more.

 

It took a bit of getting used too: apply the heat for too long from a too big distance, and the whole thing would deform. Apply it from a too short distance, and it would burn and get brown or black, and start to cook and bubble. Apply not enough heat, and then you had to wait too long for any effect, so the heat would get inside, and the whole model would deform too. The balance was critical.

 

[geert_2 557]

On 11/9/2018 at 7:03 PM, cloakfiend said:

 

 

Wow.

I had already been wondering how you got those really fluent hairs and other features modeled. Now I see.

 

I tried Skulptris once (if I remember that name correctly?), but could not make a decent model with it, with my standard mouse and screen. I can imagine this tablet works 100 times better.

 

Is that pen pressure sensitive, and angle sensitive too? And does it accurately skulpt under the pen tip, without offset?