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nudelmannrichter

UM2 Issues gettin PLA stuck to print bed

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Hey guys,

of course this looks like an often discussed thing here, but think that can't be done often enough to collect and share experiences.

Got a UM2 a week ago, Did several good prints with the silver PLA that came with the printer. Used the preset PLA settings, everthing ok as expected.

Now I wanted to change to PLA 3mm Blue from IGo3D, Batch No. 130901A27020309, purchased in February 2014.

I hope I don't go to far if I describe what I did first and what happened then.

So, first I did behave a bit idiotic cause I did not change the material settings from PLA standard to a custom setting with right diamter of filament.

I did not notice that and started the print which began not so bad apart from some warping of the brim in the edges. Nozzle went up to about 30mm height and then broke off one part of the object.

0001

 

Ok I thought apart from the maybe not optimal construction of the part, I had to improve the sticking to the glass a little bit to make this stronger. I printed exactly this part before using the Silver Ultimaker PLA coming with the printer and it was a success at first try. So I changed bed temperature and nozzle temperature in both directions but as you will notice in next pic, the results got worse and worse. I also releveled the bed, cleaned the glass with alcohol. It was obvoius that the extruded filament wanted to turn 180° upwards right afer leaving the nozzle and sticking to the side of the nozzle. I removed this before nozzle hit the bed but this did not help at all.

0002

Just to make sure, that I did not broke something or messed up some major settings, I changed material back to the silver, used the standard PLA settings and printed the part with the result you will see below:

0003

0004

0005

0006

Even if the part has potential to be optimized in some way I am satisfied for the moment with the silver version but my problem is with the blue stuff.

Ok, so I read quite a bit thru the UM Forum, found several interesting hints and decided to give it the next try this afternoon.

I changed the part, to stay a bit smaller and less complicated to print.

I made the material settings as Custom Material 1 as follows:

Nozzle temp 210, bed temp 64, Diameter 3mm

I printed in 0,1 layers, 50mm/sec

Same happens again. Extruded filament takes a nice turn 180° upwards, sticks nicely to side of the nozzle. I removed this, and right after hitting the bed as soon as extrusion keeps on, the PLA does not stick to the glass, came off, warps, builds funny figures. In next line of doing the brim, nozzle collects the warped stuff until a nice crumblemumble is sticking unter the hot end plate.

1

2

3

4

5

 

During looking at this scenario while printing it looked somehow like kinda underxtrusion to me but what might be the solution? I cannot understand why the first of the bad prints was the best even with wrong diameter setting. I also changed the diameter setting a little bit to see if this might influence but no visible change happened.

I also tried again the settings of standard PLA but even here same result.

Maybe it is interesting to mention that after each trial after removin the rest of the failed print I noticed minimal residues on the glas looking like a fingerprint of the material. Hardly to take a pic of this but looks like sweated out of the material. Easy to remove with pure alcohol.

 

So... what would your ideas be to catch the problem? I will anyway change now material to something other I got with the printer, but with this Blue stuff I have no solution for the moment. Maybe some of you experienced guys could give some hints. One of the main questions is if I am the problem or the material might be the problem....

 

From time to time I also noticed the 180° turn of the worm also with the silver UM PLA. Does this look like a general problem? I think by heating up to really higher temp, this effect might be weaker but do others also notice this?

Here one more pic to illustrate before I leave you alone with my long blabla :mrgreen:

6

 

Just made some tests with same stuff in black.

Nozzle 210, Bed 64, Diameter 3. Result:

0007

Maybe the 3mm are part of the Problem? Will keep on testing...

 

So thanks guys for reading. I appreciate any help and idea. Thanks in advance

so long

Stefan

 

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Next step in testing was to change to a different brand of filament

Test filament for this step is:

PLA 3mm Sky Blue from Formfutura. Batch No. G130605P3SB100

I set the nozzle temp to 190° and bed temp to 64°

Bed was leveled before test.

First try brim tends to warp, I reduced the speed for first layer to 50% of the standard value.

Seemed to stick better.

Print aborted cause I only used a short filament rest to see if threre is a difference between this and the IGo3D, and there it is. So only a reference

test Pla fofu skybl 1

test Pla fofu skybl 2

 

After that, again working with the blue IGo3D stuff.

Leveled bed again just to be sure.

Brim did not want to stick again, after several pause and resume operations incl. removing of the non sticking brim mess, first layer of object tended to stick a little after reducing the first layer speed at 50% and so I let it go. As you can see, we have some warping at the edges. May be due to missing brim.

Here the parameters were:

Nozzle: 225° I noticed that material feed was bad at lower temp and caused underextrusion

Bed: 50°

First layer speed 50% of standard value

Here the result.

7

8

Still not satisfying. A little bit closer to a better part but still sticking issues.

I don't want to override these problems only by using some gueing substances on the bed.

I prefer to find the reasons for the problems and try to fix them. If nothing helps I may try some adhesive stuff. I am more a friend of a clean straight concept with repeatable results.

So I hope for some input from the community.

thanks

stefan

ah, and please don't think that I want to say that the IGo3D stuff is bad. Its to check out best parameters for this. If it is more difficult to use - ok but the results may be helpful for all.

 

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Hi,

I had different problems with the Black iGo3D Innofill Filament - It was somehow underextruding. Even though the spool said: "Printing termperature 200-210°", I set the extruder to 230°C and Material Flow to 110%, bed to 65°.

Print results are coming out quite good.

Still have some warping on the bottoms, but I guess I just need to lower the bed temperature after a while.

Have you releveled the build-plate? I've noticed, that you need to redo this quite offen. Especially if you see problems with a print not sticking.

Netsrac

 

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I don't want to override these problems only by using some gueing substances on the bed.

 

I've found that some filaments simply doesn't want to stick to the bed without a little help. My white PLA in particular seems to not like a clean glass plate. After I put on some glue and then spread it around with a wet cloth to leave a very thin layer of glue (it's almost invisible) the parts stuck like they should.

 

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Hi Carsten,

yep, it also looked like underextruding to me somehow especially during first layer.

Today I tried the blue IGo3D again with same part as last one.

I went a little bit in the direction you recommended and it goes better and better.

My last settings are:

Nozzle: 230°, Bed: 50°. I set the speed for first layer to 10. First I tried flow at 110% but noticed that then I get some overextrusion and changed back to 100% for second layer. Bed has been leveled again before printing and I have to say that the bed leveling method is not as good as it could be. I wonder wha the bed seems to change position from print to print... thermal or mechanical problem? Don't know, I will think about this later.

This time it seemed that I got the bed a little bit too close but the stuff sticked. No glue or other helping products.

This gives the idea that also the relation between speed and bed height apart from the temp settings seem to play an important role. If first layer goes ok, there is a much better chance for a good print anyway.

Actually I am running a test print with same material, same settings, a vertical standing 40x40 item-profile in 60mm height. It will print the next 9 hours or so but I will see if it still sticks if we come higher and higher.

9

11

 

Robert,

yep, behaviour of different types of filament, is quite different. I wonder if it might be possible to determine with other properties of the material with are to check in a way may give a hint to how the stuff will behave. I am thinking about a small filament test device which runs some procedures and gives results that lead to a kind of typization of the tested filament... don't know just an idea at the moment.

regards

stefan

 

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i posted the result of this test to another topic cause here we don't talk about underextrusion but about the sticking

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/5334-interesting-extrusion-development/

regarding the sticking of first layer: the new temp settings and a well leveled bed with a distance a tiny bit closer as usual brings a better sticking result. Will go ahead with the tests. But before I have to fix the axial backlash I posted here:

http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/5286-axial-backlash-in-guiding-shafts/

cheers

stefan

 

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