Wow, lucky you. I don't think there are any multirotor meets near where I live (Norfolk/Suffolk border - uk).
My 2nd generation quad (posts #164, #173 above) decided to pick a fight with an innocent unarmed tree the other day.
Tree 1 - Quad 0
Now retired with a broken arm.
Design of generation 3 is well under way though, and will also include FPV this time.
This is not much of a group project. :(
Seeing it's heading into summer here I was hoping there would be a good plan in place so we can all start building some good multirotors.
Thanks for the input of the parts used though. I might just start making my own also.
Does anyone have 3d models of the parts like the motors, apm, gps module etc.. so we can start playing with designs
I'm not sure the apm 2.6 is a good choice. Calibrating it has been a ton of work. I'm starting over and buildign a jig to hold the copter but let it spin on one axis at a time so I can calibrate just that axis carefully.
I just found out about this thread, its not that pretty looking but its very small and flies great.
Motors: Turnigy Multistar 1704-1900Kv
ESCs: Turnigy Plush 12a (stock firmware, will be flashing to blheli)
FC: Acro Naze32
Servo: Turnigy XGD-11MB
Battery: 1000mah 25c
vTX: Immersion RC FPV gear
RX: frsky d4rii
Full album:
Seems as if this thread is loosing some interest..
Well the weather is going to be getting better we hope.... lol summer is here. I think that your going to need that new frame to fly out side. This frame is a copy of a 250 fpv quad frame, and i have modded it to fit inside the um2 build volume. Test printing some parts in XT clear, then add the full parts list after some fitment! Here is a pic of it! 
Grrrr lost my reply due to pressing wrong button... here goes again...
Great to see you still contributing MrWong! As I find myself without a job again, living in a rural area and great weather this project has made it to the top of my list again. What I'll do is update the google sheet with all components listed here after the last update I did, as well as with those picked in Make Magazine's latest drones (http://makezine.com/projects/hovership-3d-printed-racing-drone/).
After that I think I'll take Woofy's approach and just order a bunch of parts and start printing and flying... he seems to have made great progress by just diving in. By the way who else is in the Netherlands... I thought you were MrWong? And Titus too right (if he's still around with the new forum :().
I hope MrWong comes back to this forum! It seems that many people have had trouble logging into the new forum. Anyway, I'd love to see a parts list. My quad is great but I'm thinking of making a FPV next. Those look so fun! And MrWong's design looks just like about what I'm thinking.
I should post more pics of my quad. I flew it this past weekend - no crashes! (rare!). Got some good video!
Here's a recent photo:
Google sheet updated with all the latest components posted by people. Make magazine drones remain to be done.
I just found out about this thread, its not that pretty looking but its very small and flies great.vTX: Immersion RC FPV gear
RX: frsky d4rii
Hi Tottenham, you seem to be one of the few FPV flyers in here... could you comment on the vTX and RX modules? I'm a complete noob in this regard, so I have no idea what these components do or if what you have listed is a complete system or not?
I know, right? Kind of vague. Well
vTX: Immersion RC FPV gear
means video transmitter is made by Immersion - they have 3 different transmitters here:
http://www.immersionrc.com/fpv-products/
The frsky d4rii is both a receiver which sits on the quad and sends at least 4 signals to your controlling computer for the 4 control sticks on the transmitter (the controlling computer helps you keep the quad stable and typically has gyros built in as a minimum). The d4r-ii also can *transmit* telemetry (like say gps settings if you have a gps on your quad) but it sounds like that feature is not used. It's a very tiny light weight radio receiver though and is compatible with many different hand held transmitters (the thing with the joysticks).
I know, right? Kind of vague. Well
vTX: Immersion RC FPV gear
means video transmitter is made by Immersion - they have 3 different transmitters here:
http://www.immersionrc.com/fpv-products/
The frsky d4rii is both a receiver which sits on the quad and sends at least 4 signals to your controlling computer for the 4 control sticks on the transmitter (the controlling computer helps you keep the quad stable and typically has gyros built in as a minimum). The d4r-ii also can *transmit* telemetry (like say gps settings if you have a gps on your quad) but it sounds like that feature is not used. It's a very tiny light weight radio receiver though and is compatible with many different hand held transmitters (the thing with the joysticks).
Normally you would get your transmitter/receiver combination for manual operation right... so does this link come as an extra with the transmitter on the drone and the receiver in your video device near the pilot? And what exactly do you need then? There's no display included is there? Or do you get a special transmitter with a display to which you then hook up these components? Anyway, my main conclusion was that if you just buy these two things you don't have a complete fpv set-up yet... so that's what I'm looking for: what other components would you need then?
As for the sheet:
I've updated the few components mentioned in makezine.. they're quite general, with a link to instructional video's and various options for components. I'll explore these and than order parts :-D.
Here's the link to the sheets:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LF8jzXoFDleyP3YF3eb1JEQPQ8eOfPjmKctFca1AVGg/edit?usp=sharing
And to the makezine hangar:
http://makezine.com/makerhangar/
[update] still no automagic link conversion on this new forum... :( UM makes me sad lately
Edited by GuestAhh Nice to see some activity in here again! I have been posting some of my updates in the RC groups forums, but ill transfer my progress over here!
First off I have been tuning the KK 2.1.5 flight controller to this mini frame. And i must say i like the board as it is super simple to setup and can be tweaked in the field without a computer. For beginners this is the route you will want to go.
Lets start with some of the frame revisions and changes i have made to my frame. Bare in mind this first frame that i wanted, i did not want any FPV equipment on board. I wanted a super fast light weight flyer, but fpv can and will be added later once i get the frame sorted out.
Here is the parts list for the build
4 x Multistart Elite 2300kv CW and CCW motors
4 x 12A blue ice simonK flash ESC's
1 x 36 x 36 mini PDB, next version will have integrated 5v and 12v step downs
1 x mini KK 2.1.5 board with case flashed with Stevis
4 x 5045 props CW and CCW
1 x turnigy 9x receiver
Batteries - 3s 1500mah 35-70c or 3s 1300mah 45-90c
misc hardware, some M3 bolts, nylon nuts and standoffs, stainless lock nuts
Here are some photos that i had taken during the process.
I will add some updated photos when i get a chance later today. Maybe also record some flying. :)Added some LED's for orientation pics coming soon.
p.s Im not located in holland anymore, but i can speak and read dutch!
Edited by Guest
1
Lets start with some of the frame revisions and changes i have made to my frame. Bare in mind this first frame that i wanted, i did not want any FPV equipment on board. I wanted a super fast light weight flyer, but fpv can and will be added later once i get the frame sorted out.
Here is the parts list for the build
4 x Multistart Elite 2300kv CW and CCW motors
4 x 12A blue ice simonK flash ESC's
1 x 36 x 36 mini PDB, next version will have integrated 5v and 12v step downs
1 x mini KK 2.1.5 board with case flashed with Stevis
4 x 5045 props CW and CCW
1 x turnigy 9x receiver
Batteries - 3s 1500mah 35-70c or 3s 1300mah 45-90c
misc hardware, some M3 bolts, nylon nuts and standoffs, stainless lock nuts
Here are some photos that i had taken during the process.
Nice build MrWong! I'm wondering: why did you make a frame out of flat parts instead of using the 3D printers capabilities to produce something fluent and/or integrate spacers and such?
I'm also curious how you selected the parts for the drone: what's your process? What weight is the flyer and what kind of flight time do you reach?
I'm currently trying to find components based on my initial guess flight time of +/- 30min and a 1kg payload... from first exploration these seem quite exotic requirements, only possible in hexa's or octo's? To practice flying I did order a toy drone, so I won't crash the result of all my hard work the 1st time :-S.
Edited by GuestTo practice flying I did order a toy drone, so I won't crash the result of all my hard work the 1st time :-S.
I got the "x1" for $40 as recommended by many expert quad pilots because it is tough as hell and flies well both indoors and outdoors.
When you get your toy, after you feel really good at it, try having it pointing towards you until you can (without thinking) always move away from obstructions in a panic instead of towards them, lol. Also practice sideways where it is facing 90 degrees to the direction you are facing. In fact you should probably do that first from my experience. Get really good at "sideways" orientation (landing taking off, repeatedly, on small targets, thnigs like that).
Later fly it mostly above you. When flying outdoors I have the most trouble with things like when it is right overhead and I need to rotate myself as it is drifting in a direction I can't see anymore. Or forgeting which way is the front of the copter. Or when it gets in the sun - I had a crash due to the sun recently. Fortunatly it was my X1 and it survived fine after a 15 minute search for the battery.
wtf... post was eaten by the forum... luckily I copied & saved.
When you get your toy, after you feel really good at it, try having it pointing towards you until you can (without thinking) always move away from obstructions in a panic instead of towards them, lol. Also practice sideways where it is facing 90 degrees to the direction you are facing. In fact you should probably do that first from my experience. Get really good at "sideways" orientation (landing taking off, repeatedly, on small targets, thnigs like that).
Haha, those are exactly the kind of things I'm worried about. I've also 'downloaded' an RC flight simulator that should be able to work with a transmitter... haven't tried that out yet though. First part selection and ordering...
So I've spent a day diving into the core components and have come up with the following (sheet also updated). Please comment and question me on them! Also, I'll add the list of components-to-do, so let me know if I miss anything on there.
First off the system purpose:
- large starter quad, but with the possibility to quickly grow to autonomous/camera use: so large payload, full autopilot, long flight duration. For now I've left out camera gimbals and fpv options, but these will probably be ordered in the future.
- Initial guess: preferrably 15-30min flight time, +/- 2kg take-off weight including future payloads.
So translating that into the start components: motor/prop combo:
- You want your quad to be able to lift about double the proposed system weight for comfortable handling, and with a 20% margin due to my guesswork you get approximately 1200gr of thrust per motor/prop combo. That's quite a lot, so we should be looking at large diameter props and low KV motors.
- Iterating between xcoptercalc, HobbyKing's available parts, youtube videos, drone sites, etc. I came up with an 11" diameter 4,7" pitch propellor and a NTM 2830 800KV motor, operating on a 4S voltage.
- This draws a max of 15A according to xcoptercalc, but based on future growth I went for a 30A ESC. Also for long flight duration I chose two 5000 mAh Lipoly packs, the most light weight ones for a reasonable price I could find on HK.
- Flight controller wise I'm still doubting my choice. I really like the APM FC as I've been following their development for the last 6years. However, they're switching over to PixHawk, which is really way above my budget, especially as I expect to crash my first quad... there's some clones available, but no suitable option in the HK EU store. In there is a MultiWii board suitable for the MegaPirate firmware, so I opted for that one in combination with a Neo-6 GPS unit. Other options (on HK) are either way above budget or don't include possibilities for GPS and full auto (waypoint navigation).
All in all this gives the following component list... grrr no way to do tables on this forum... and either fixed spacing or urls :(
Manufacturer Model Version WeightTurnigy NTM 2830 800KV 260HobbyKing NTM accessories 28 series 55,2Hobbyking Slow Fly Electric 1147 SF CCW 20 HobbyKing Slow Fly Electric 1147 SF CW 20Rotorstar 30A 104MultiWii Aio FC v2 Megapirate 14Ublox Neo-6 GPS 10Zippy Compact 5000mAh 4s 1p 25C 976
Links separately then (having to scroll up and down to insert the tags :(, with the stupid top bar interfering...):
HK Slow Fly Electric 1147 prop
Zippy Compact 5000mAh 4s 1p 25C
What's still to do:
Edited by Guest
Nice build MrWong! I'm wondering: why did you make a frame out of flat parts instead of using the 3D printers capabilities to produce something fluent and/or integrate spacers and such?
I'm also curious how you selected the parts for the drone: what's your process? What weight is the flyer and what kind of flight time do you reach?
I'm currently trying to find components based on my initial guess flight time of +/- 30min and a 1kg payload... from first exploration these seem quite exotic requirements, only possible in hexa's or octo's? To practice flying I did order a toy drone, so I won't crash the result of all my hard work the 1st time :-S.
To answer some of your questions, I have made the frame flat and in one plane cuts, because i would later like to cut the frame out of different materials. Injection molding is very expensive and if i need to produce some on a larger scale it will be easier to do so. Think Carbon fiber sheets or G10 fiber glass.
When it comes to selecting motors, esc's, battery, and prop combos. You need to ask yourself what is your budget? What are you doing with the quad, racing, stunting, fpv, stable video capture? I wanted something small i could throw in a bag and fly almost anywhere in Line of sight. For my build no camera or fpv, so light as possible. Small powerful battery packs that wont break the bank if i need to order 4-6. Calculate estimated component weights and start to evaluate the total power to weight. This quad is about 4-1 power to weight. The AUW is about 300-450 grams, with each motor driving 330 - 370grams with 5x45 props @ ~10A.
1
@coen - don't assume you have to get everything at HK. Their prices are amazing until you go to the shipping page where if you are ordering from a HK in a different country the shipping can add 50% to the price! When you include shipping, other sellers are often cheaper than HK.
You don't need a power controller board but your flight controller needs 5V so I ended up buying a little module that solders into the power line and in addition to creating the 5V it also supplies my APM with current draw information which isn't critical but nice.
Did you check that the ublox is compatible with your flight controller?
@coen - don't assume you have to get everything at HK. Their prices are amazing until you go to the shipping page where if you are ordering from a HK in a different country the shipping can add 50% to the price! When you include shipping, other sellers are often cheaper than HK.You don't need a power controller board but your flight controller needs 5V so I ended up buying a little module that solders into the power line and in addition to creating the 5V it also supplies my APM with current draw information which isn't critical but nice.
Did you check that the ublox is compatible with your flight controller?
Check out this mini 36x36 PDB with 12v and 5v step downs.
Careful when looking at PDB's with step downs, the adjustable ones are not that good of quality from what i have been reading and are not the correct size for mini quads....
@coen - don't assume you have to get everything at HK. Their prices are amazing until you go to the shipping page where if you are ordering from a HK in a different country the shipping can add 50% to the price! When you include shipping, other sellers are often cheaper than HK.
I've selected everything at EU warehouse, so this should be OK right? Do you know of better suppliers in Holland? I'll do a separate scan of price when all the components are clear, but I'd prefer to get everything in one place in one go...
Did you check that the ublox is compatible with your flight controller?
Did a quick google and found some people using it, but I'll have to investigate in more detail to also order the correct cables and connectors.
You don't need a power controller board but your flight controller needs 5V so I ended up buying a little module that solders into the power line and in addition to creating the 5V it also supplies my APM with current draw information which isn't critical but nice.
Check out this mini 36x36 PDB with 12v and 5v step downs.
Careful when looking at PDB's with step downs, the adjustable ones are not that good of quality from what i have been reading and are not the correct size for mini quads....
My ESC's have a switched BEC on them... so no special 5V connection necessary (instead I'll have to remove 3 from the signal cables). However, looking at the PDB MrWong has posted this might be a more interesting option: go for non-BEC ESC's and use this PDB, also making it more future proof with 12V for FPV. The only worry would be the cooling, as this board would be place centrally in the housing, instead of the BEC's on the ESCS which are on the arms and closer to airflow. What's your experience with this MrWong?
Further updates:
I received my toy drone today and had a first fling of indoor flying with it... I can totally understand getting disoriented. There's also very little maneuvring space indoor, however, once trimmed correctly the thing is surprisingly stable! Outdoor practicing time when the bloody rain stops :-S.
TX/RX wise I was leaning towards a Turnigy 9XRPro with a FrSky DF tx/rx combo pack. However, after reading the reviews I think it might be better to immediately go for the Taranis. Any advice?
My ESC's have a switched BEC on them... so no special 5V connection necessary (instead I'll have to remove 3 from the signal cables). However, looking at the PDB MrWong has posted this might be a more interesting option: go for non-BEC ESC's and use this PDB, also making it more future proof with 12V for FPV. The only worry would be the cooling, as this board would be place centrally in the housing, instead of the BEC's on the ESCS which are on the arms and closer to airflow. What's your experience with this MrWong?
Further updates:
I received my toy drone today and had a first fling of indoor flying with it... I can totally understand getting disoriented. There's also very little maneuvring space indoor, however, once trimmed correctly the thing is surprisingly stable! Outdoor practicing time when the bloody rain stops :-S.
TX/RX wise I was leaning towards a Turnigy 9XRPro with a FrSky DF tx/rx combo pack. However, after reading the reviews I think it might be better to immediately go for the Taranis. Any advice?
This is also the first time i am using the PDB with regulators. There shouldn't be that much load on the 5v rail, as it is only powering the FC and the receiver. I would estimate that it would be somewhere in the range of <1A. I'll let you know if i have any issues. The spacing between the frame bottom plate and the middle deck i have at 11mm in my design, This still allows for air to pass over all components, so im guessing heat wont be a problem. The next test will be with fpv gear to see how it handles the extra load.
I'm still rocking the turnigy 9x, and the 9xr pro is the 2nd iteration of that PLUS HK sells the correct lipo for it as well. That is a decent radio to start with and will have most if not all the features you may need, if not, its also hackable/flashable.
For the TX or RX, get one that has a good balance of quality and price that you can afford, Also check out how much the receivers are as a single unit, to evaluate the cost to have multiple models. Remember that for this small scale, long range and more powerful radios might cause interference to other components. 250 quads don't really have much room to space components out. 2.4ghz for control and 5.8ghz for video will be sufficient for close fpv flying.
1
This is also the first time i am using the PDB with regulators. [...] I'll let you know if i have any issues.
I'm still rocking the turnigy 9x, and the 9xr pro is the 2nd iteration of that PLUS HK sells the correct lipo for it as well. That is a decent radio to start with and will have most if not all the features you may need, if not, its also hackable/flashable.
For the TX or RX, get one that has a good balance of quality and price that you can afford, Also check out how much the receivers are as a single unit, to evaluate the cost to have multiple models. Remember that for this small scale, long range and more powerful radios might cause interference to other components. 250 quads don't really have much room to space components out. 2.4ghz for control and 5.8ghz for video will be sufficient for close fpv flying.
Good to hear from you again MrWong, and nice pictures! Where's the inflight vid? ;-)
Thanks for the advice... it looks like I won't be able to order all parts from one HK warehouse anyway, so I'll probably get a Taranis or 9XR... the nice thing of the Taranis is that I"ll have built-in telemetry immediately... will investigate a little further, but good to hear that you're happy with 9XR. People on fora were saying that the Taranis gives a lot more bang for a little more buck compared to 9XR. Did you consider Taranis at all?
As I'm moving towards finalizing the orders I'm getting close to the smaller bits and bytes: wiring and connectors. Could you comment on what you are using?
I'm looking at approximately 22A max current draw from the motors. So I'm thinking I should be fine using EC3 (3,5mm bullet) connectors for the part from ESC to motor, using AWG14(?) wiring?. The average draw should be much smaller than 22A.
For the wiring to the battery it should be much heavier: even AWG6, using XT90 connectors... is this too heavy? What guidelines do you use? If I look at the official AWG tables it results in wiring that to my inexperienced mind looks very heavy!
What do your wiring/connector schematics look like?
If I look at the official AWG tables it results in wiring that to my inexperienced mind looks very heavy
So when I designed my wiring I looked up the specs of all the parts and used the recommended wiring. What a mistake. I got very thick, very heavy wiring. It all works but EVERYONE who looks at my wiring is like WTF? Why such heavy wires? It made for efficient wiring but inneficient extra weight. I don't remember any of the specifics but this is something I may revisit some day (it's tough to be motivated when I have 5 other changes I want and it works as is). I don't know the actual values (current/wire size) anymore. I just know I tried to follow recommendations and it was silly. I think the recommendations were for current through 20 foot wires maybe and irrelevant for my short cabling? I don't know. Or maybe my actual current draw was about 1/3 of expected? Not sure.
Edited by GuestGood to hear from you again MrWong, and nice pictures! Where's the inflight vid? ;-)
Thanks for the advice... it looks like I won't be able to order all parts from one HK warehouse anyway, so I'll probably get a Taranis or 9XR... the nice thing of the Taranis is that I"ll have built-in telemetry immediately... will investigate a little further, but good to hear that you're happy with 9XR. People on fora were saying that the Taranis gives a lot more bang for a little more buck compared to 9XR. Did you consider Taranis at all?
As I'm moving towards finalizing the orders I'm getting close to the smaller bits and bytes: wiring and connectors. Could you comment on what you are using?
I'm looking at approximately 22A max current draw from the motors. So I'm thinking I should be fine using EC3 (3,5mm bullet) connectors for the part from ESC to motor, using AWG14(?) wiring?. The average draw should be much smaller than 22A.
For the wiring to the battery it should be much heavier: even AWG6, using XT90 connectors... is this too heavy? What guidelines do you use? If I look at the official AWG tables it results in wiring that to my inexperienced mind looks very heavy!
What do your wiring/connector schematics look like?
Now that you are talking about this telemetry and other things about the taranis, ill have to also investigate this radio some more. I have two of the turnigy 9x radios, one that is running on the turnigy 2.4ghz v2 radios, and the other on a dragonlink. The dragon link system is hacked into my phantom v2+ system. <- different thread for that one.
As for the size of the wiring that i used is as follows. The battery terminals are on the XT90 connectors with 14AWG wire, that should be sufficient for 32 Amps. That is the same size wiring that is used on my packs. Use this table for reference HERE
For my speed controller wire size i'm using 20awg for power and 22 awg for motor wires coupled with 2mm bullets. For my 250 setup this is perfect, use that link that i posted to figure out what you need. Bare in mind that you dont want to over kill too much as it will add weight!
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I know someone who has an amazing rig, too! (What's wrong with me today?? o.O)
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