Anyone got any tips for printing when the first layer has lots of tiny part?

[tonycstech 5]

looks like NASA 3d modeling skills as well as rendering suck big time.

I think that some clown created that website and made claims that all of you fell for to be real NASA website or NASA content.

 

[jweaver 2]

Looks like the "Raft" could be the solution to ky woes...

I tried this evening to print the spanner and after the raft was layed, it printed perfectly...

But i thought that there was no way that i would be able to remve the raft.. But i was wrong.. It just snapped off in one piece leaving ZERO evidence that the raft was ever involved...

I am really chuffed with this and will do some more tests tomorrow on some even more detailed prints....

[tonycstech 5]

Raft is just a work around. Why work around when problem can be fixed at its root ?

 

[jweaver 2]

Raft is just a work around. Why work around when problem can be fixed at its root ?

 

Who says its not a workaround? But its the only option i have.. And if it works. Its better han nothing..

I am greateful for anything to be honest...

[tonycstech 5]

Craftware fully implemented vector slicer with its latest release. Try it. Far better then CURA and their developers fix things withing a week or two, even implement features that users request

 

[Labern 774]

looks like NASA 3d modeling skills as well as rendering suck big time.

I think that some clown created that website and made claims that all of you fell for to be real NASA website or NASA content.

 

Yes the design sucks but it wasnt designed by NASA. It was designed by a guy from Made In Space. the company that built the 3d printer that NASA uses.

 

[jweaver 2]

Craftware fully implemented vector slicer with its latest release. Try it. Far better then CURA and their developers fix things withing a week or two, even implement features that users request

 

Tony.. I know that you are happy with CW.. But its not an option for me.. It doesn't support the Printrbot.. Infact, its "terminal" can't even send commands to the Printrbot, so I assume the GCODE that it creates won't work either.

The developer has said that supporting the Printrbot is on their wishlist, but its way down and not likely to happen soon.

Even if I could use CW to simply build the GCode, I would rather have CURA (even with its flaws) printing directly to the printer rather than having to export the file and use another app to print.

I am more than happy with CURA.. I know that it could do some things better.. But I am not simply going to turn my back on it, just because it has a few flaws.. With the 'raft', its helped and this might solve the problems I have with it.

Of course I wish it did some things better.. But taking EVERYTHING into account, its the only option I have.

What does bother my about your replies is that you went from trying to help, to a missing to discredit CURA.. IMHO you went about things badly, and now it hasn't gone your way, you have gone on a campaign to tell everyone how bad CURA Is.

I appreciate your responses.. I really do.. But it becomes tiresome to read your views on CURA over and over and over.

 

[jweaver 2]

Unfortunatly, the "Raft" isn't working out quite as well as I hoped.

Last night I tried this again:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:51806

I used Raft and Support.. The raft went down.. And the individual balls started printing.. But soon, they started to flick off the Raft, just like they did of the bed when I tried before.

So clearly I am no closer to a solution for this one.

 

[tonycstech 5]

WRONG

Cura and craftbot generate exact same gcode flavor.

I confirm this by being able to use both programs on my printer.

When i create profile for CURA, i select marlin rep/rap based printer. For craftware there is no selection.

 

[jweaver 2]

WRONG

Cura and craftbot generate exact same gcode flavor.

I confirm this by being able to use both programs on my printer.

When i create profile for CURA, i select marlin rep/rap based printer. For craftware there is no selection.

 

Well it doesnt' work for me.. The "terminal" won't even send commands to my printer..

So even if the GCODE is compatible (never tested) and I was to use it , I would have to export the GCODE an then print it using another application (Repetier?).. Which is frankly a pain in the a**e.

I do this already for multi-coloured prints where I need "pause" support, and it works.. But its not something I want to do very often!

If/when CW supports my printer and will print directly.. I will relook at it.. For now, I would prefer to live with CURAs flaws, than have to use multiple apps to print.

 

[tottenham12712 1]

Its not a problem with the Wrench.. Its a problem with my printer and the way that CURA lays down the first layer..

You need to go back to the start to understand if you are interested.. Basically, after retraction, my Printrbot lays down a tiny bit of air when doing new perimeters leaving them open.. And they get snagged and ripped off.

I struggle with the first layer when there are very small parts... So in the case of the wrench.. That tiny little rectangle on the first layer, gets ripped up..

 

You guys have some serious attitude issues in this thread...Because its impossible for files to get corrupted or people to screw with things on the internet, right?

Trying using a brim, it will close it the gap on the rectangle. I had the same issue initially.

 

Craftware fully implemented vector slicer with its latest release. Try it. Far better then CURA and their developers fix things withing a week or two, even implement features that users request

 

Craftware's UI is a total disaster. It looks like someones high school project.

 

[jweaver 2]

You guys have some serious attitude issues in this thread...Because its impossible for files to get corrupted or people to screw with things on the internet, right?

 

Attitude problem? Really? Is that the way my comment came across.. I am not concerned about the wrench, I am more concerned about the ongoing issue I have with the way that my Printer lays down its first layer, causing small objects (As found in the Wrench) to get ripped off .

I don't want to focus on the Wrench, or how this design is a problem, or how my version might be "corrupted" or "modified".. I have a general problem with my printer, which isn't helped by the way that CURA works.. And I am genuinely happy to try ANY suggestions as I am simply unable to print something which has small parts on the first layer.

I have looked at Brim and it didn't help.. Raft looks like it could be been useful, but whilst it helped with the Wrench, it didn't with other small jobs I tested with.

I really don't have an attitude.. I am here looking for help and am greatful to everyone...

 

[Daid 306]

Attitude problem? Really? Is that the way my comment came across.. I am not concerned about the wrench, I am more concerned about the ongoing issue I have with the way that my Printer lays down its first layer, causing small objects (As found in the Wrench) to get ripped off .

I don't want to focus on the Wrench, or how this design is a problem, or how my version might be "corrupted" or "modified".. I have a general problem with my printer, which isn't helped by the way that CURA works.. And I am genuinely happy to try ANY suggestions as I am simply unable to print something which has small parts on the first layer.

I have looked at Brim and it didn't help.. Raft looks like it could be been useful, but whilst it helped with the Wrench, it didn't with other small jobs I tested with.

I really don't have an attitude.. I am here looking for help and am greatful to everyone...

 

You might want to try lowering travel speed, just to see if that helps. (Ultimaker printers generally have less problems on this area then PrintrBots, causing some of the confusion and aggression here)

 

[jweaver 2]

You might want to try lowering travel speed, just to see if that helps. (Ultimaker printers generally have less problems on this area then PrintrBots, causing some of the confusion and aggression here)

 

Cheers Daid.. I have already slowed it right down.. And simply can't stop the small shapes from being laid incomplete.

It seems that as my extruder motor starts to turn, nothing comes out for a few mms... This leaves the shapes open and they snag at the next pass...

 

[jweaver 2]

Sorry to bring this up again, but I am still not closer.

At the weekend i was trying to print something that had a series of small holes in it. And I could not get the first layer down.. As always, I find that the small details arn't fully printed and they snag as the head goes over.

I built a test STL which is basically a block, with a load of 1mm - 6mm holes in it.. And captured a video:

 

I still can't help thinking that this is because the printer doesn't fully print all of the shapes.. Look at the circle drawn at 14-15s.. I can't see the head travelling the full perimeter.

I do want to point out that this video is especailly bad.. A lot of the problems here are down to "adhesion" and I have some oozing as the temperature is high.. But this is quite typical of what I am seeing.

My problem isnt' really getting the layer to stick.. its trying to get the shapes to be fully closed....

Does anyone have any more thoughts on this subject?

Jon

 

[dirkdirk 5]

I think you have to level the bed closer to the nozzle and

you can try the Plugin RetractWhileCombing. Activate first and last layer only checkbox. Insert 0.075 or 0.1mm in z hop for retract.

[tonycstech 5]

Don't waste time. I wasted years.

Problem is in the core of cura.

It does not retract when jumping from one perimeter to another.

Print with craftware.

[jweaver 2]

Don't waste time. I wasted years.

Problem is in the core of cura.

It does not retract when jumping from one perimeter to another.

Print with craftware.

 

I know.. And we have already talked about this at length.. But CW doesn't support my printer and there is no way I am going to a model where I have to save the GCODE and print with another App all the time... I love CURA for its simplicity and I don't want to change.

Of course I guess one option is to use CW for the few jobs which act like this.. And perhaps I should give it a ago.. But my first attempt using it failed dismally.

 

[jweaver 2]

I think you have to level the bed closer to the nozzle and

you can try the Plugin RetractWhileCombing. Activate first and last layer only checkbox. Insert 0.075 or 0.1mm in z hop for retract.

 

Can't go any closer as It starts to rub the bed.. I went as close as I could and then backed out 0.05mm.. and I am pretty sure its setup perfectly now and have perfect quality prints.

But I might go back and wind it in by 0.01mm at a time to see if that helps.

 

[tonycstech 5]

Helps does not equal solve.

Don't waste time and filament.

Cura was designed to work with ultimaker and this problem is not obvious for ultimaker nozzle unless u have different printer like u and me.

Completing entire perimeter before jumping to the next and retracting before jump is your ONLY solution.

Cura simply can't do it. Its retraction is distance based.

Dude. I could write a book on this issue, just do what I told u.

Everyone else will give u workarounds such as clue or abs juice and clearance temp ets,all of those help but not fix anything.

[jweaver 2]

Helps does not equal solve.

Don't waste time and filament.

Cura was designed to work with ultimaker and this problem is not obvious for ultimaker nozzle unless u have different printer like u and me.

Completing entire perimeter before jumping to the next and retracting before jump is your ONLY solution.

Cura simply can't do it. Its retraction is distance based.

Dude. I could write a book on this issue, just do what I told u.

Everyone else will give u workarounds such as clue or abs juice and clearance temp ets,all of those help but not fix anything.

 

I hear you.. I believe you.. But I would rather not print these complex parts than use multiple app to slice and print.

But I will re-visit CW.. Perhaps I could use it in 1% of cases where I run into this problem..

 

[jweaver 2]

I have done some tests with CW and I can confirm that its better, as it does the perimeters first... BUT.. It hasn't helped.. I still end up with small shapes which are not fully closed and they get ripped up.

So come circles look like "C"s.. and watching it print, I am now more convinced than ever that there is something go on here which is not the slicers fault!

I am not sure if I can explain this, but its almost like the head doesnt actually the full circle, instead it starts at say 1 o'clock and ends at 12.. And I see this with both CURA and CW..

I am not sure what to do now.. I simply can't lay down a first layer when its made up of small detailed parts....

 

[tonycstech 5]

U print small parts on blue tape ? Tape #2090 inside the roll ?

It needs to be cold bed.

Try increasing nozzle temp by 5

[jweaver 2]

U print small parts on blue tape ? Tape #2090 inside the roll ?

It needs to be cold bed.

Try increasing nozzle temp by 5

 

Yep.. Blue tape... Sanded.. Cleaned with alcohol.. I generally have no problems woth adhesion.. But small parts tend not to be closed.. And i have said since say one that i am convinced the head doesnt travel the entire permimeter.

Now with CW i can see how it does the 1st layer differently than Cura and that it does several perimeters.. But i get an "opening" at the same point of each perimeter.. So its mot like its random...

Its driving me nuts... I can print everything else and the wuality is amaziing. But its just when there ae small "parts" on the first layer that i get this problem.

[tonycstech 5]

WOW thats allot of work.

I just print straight on the tape no sandind no alcohol.

That way i can print on it many many times over without need to replace.

Sounds like you suffer with adhesion problems so much that you needed to do sandind and alcohol.

If i apply alcohol to my tape, i wont be able to remove part without tearing off the tape.

Increase temperature of the nozzle.

I assume u print PLA