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3dmakeme

Cura's 14.12 firmware is screwing my UM2

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Hi everyone,

I've tried upgrading to cura 14.12 with the new firmware. Then everytime my nozzle heat reach 160°C i get this error :

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s24/sh/f39fe56b-ade5-499f-8d99-5704031185cc/b10e5d969241456b2edd30789878991e/deep/0/UM2-firmware-pb.jpg

Downgrading to 14.09 > everything returns to normal.

Any idea what may cause this ? As there is upgrades concerning temperature management in the firmware, maybe this is an issue ?

Best,

3DMM

 

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Odd, this error means that the heater was on at full power for 20 seconds, but the hotend did not manage to increase 20 degrees in temperature in that time. Normally it heats about 3x faster then that.

This is a new protection to prevent burned out heaters when the pt100 has moved outside of the hotend.

 

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I've tried to do a normal print > bug at 160°C

Then i tried Maintenance > advanced > heat up nozzle > bug

Then i tried the move material > bug also.

I've only tried to update once. Because we print a lot and honestly i was relieved when everything went back to normal with 14.09.

Do you think i can make another try safely ? Could it be the update of the firmware that went wrong somehow although it said everything was fine ?

 

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I'm using both Cura and the firmware 14.12-RC10 and I don't have problems (... I don't use plugins, so ... I don't know with plugins).

I'm printing now for over 6 hours at 200° (... and I have 10 hours more) ... all is ok and the temperature is much more stable than with previous versions :)

Guglielmo

 

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Check if the heater block is in contact with the fan cap.

That can potentially drain a lot of heat and trigger the monitoring.

I have this issue too by the way. Eventually I modified the firmware to only require 10 degrees in 20 seconds and this more or less fixed it.

I am of course using my custom heater block, which has slightly larger mass and therefore heats slower, but I still think the monitoring function is a bit too sensitive.

As I understood it, it is changes in PID parameters made after 14.09 rather than changes in the monitoring parameters that has increased the sensitivity?

I would kind of prefer if the monitoring was a bit less sensitive.

I think I can trigger it with the original heater block too if I try.

Where it normally goes wrong is when the heater is cooling after a finished print and you select the "move material" function.

The monitoring function then starts counting degrees when the temperature is already falling and with current parameters the heater does not not catch up before 20 seconds has passed.

EDIT:

I made a calculation which suggests my custom heater block has about 40% more mass (sensor, heater and nozzle included) than the original one. So the larger mass of my heater block should not be enough to trigger the monitoring function if the safety margin is three times.

 

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I managed to successfully print a 10 hour print with 14.12 yesterday. This morning a number of small prints, the error happens all the time.

I have this fan duct. https://www.youmagine.com/designs/um2-fan-duct-for-single-extruder

Happens to me at the start of the print, cura 14.12 default settings. When the fan turns on to 100%, I guess 20/30 seconds later the error displays. So I started printing with 50% fan this time the error is not occurring. (I tried too few times to draw conclusions from this experiment, but this might help others on the short term).

 

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I am using a slightly modified version of the 15.01-RC1 firmware now.

This time I reduced the triggering criteria from 20 degrees to 8 degrees in 20 seconds.

That seems to be fool-proof. I can not trigger the monitoring even if I try my best now.

I don´t know if Daid would be open to a similar change in coming firmware, or if there is a very good reason to keep it at 20 degrees?

It is clever to use this kind of monitoring function, even if the main reason to have it seems to be to reduce the risk of disasters caused by the non optimal design of the sensor locking screw.

If the monitoring is too sensitive though, it might cause more support work for Ultimaker that if the monitoring would not have existed at all.

 

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If the monitoring is too sensitive though, it might cause more support work for Ultimaker that if the monitoring would not have existed at all.

 

Yes, I'm well aware. Currently trying to asses the impact and looking into what better parameters are. Most likely will do an hotfix this week (14.12.1)

 

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Just did some measurements. And the printer on my desk is getting 100C in 20 seconds when it's going from 50 to 150. And if I let it cool down from 260C to 200C and turn it back on to 260C at the 200C mark, it's back to 260C in 20 seconds.

This was with the fans on, but the bed lowered. So if you're not getting 20C in 20 seconds, that's quite a difference from what I'm seeing...

 

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Strange, it should not differ that much, I will do some more tests on my machine this evening.

I am pretty sure I have never seen 100 C increase in 20 seconds on my machine, not even when it was brand new.

My machine probably does like 40-50 degrees in 20 seconds at low temperatures.

However, the issue is mostly the delay when the temperature is dropping and you start heating again.

If doing that at 200 C, the triggering function starts counting from 200 C.

The temperature then drops to 195 C before it starts increasing again. On my machine that means it now has to do 25 degrees in about 15 seconds, which is about what it can do at that temperature.

I am a bit suspicious if thermal contact between sensor/heater/heaterblock can influence this somehow.

 

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Just did some more measurements. The heater of the slow heating machine is 21W. While the heater of the fast heating machine is 27W. Does not explain all differences, but does explain quite a bit of it.

The "start" dip that you see causes about 5 seconds of delay in the heating on both machines. (Compared to straight heating). So that has less actual effect then the difference in power. But it's what causing your machine to go "over the limit" easier then the machine I have here.

I'm doing a hotfix right now, to prevent any more people from having this same issue.

 

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I've released 14.12.1

http://software.ultimaker.com/

If you're having problems where this "heater error" shows up. Then please update to 14.12.1. If the problem still persists after that, check if the heater cartridge is properly inserted into the heater block (it should not stick out beyond the metal fanduct below the heater)

 

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I did some further tests on the properties of the heating.

My custom heater block, which has about 40% more mass than the original block, gets from 50 to 150 C in 41 seconds.

To investigate if thermal conductivity between sensor/heater and heater block affects the heating speed I greased both sensor and heater with copper grease.

After heating the nozzle to dry the grease, I repeated the experiment.

I get exactly the same heating speed with copper grease applied.

However, without copper grease, 10 degrees of temperature increase (18-28 C) takes 10 seconds.

With copper grease the first ten seconds takes 7 seconds.

So, it might be that insufficient thermal contact between sensor/heater and heater block is partly to blame for causing a delay that can trigger the monitoring function. (Even if the sensor/heater are still in place)

 

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I've also had this issue with 14.12, - in my case everything appears to be OK, but shortly after printing starts and the fan goes on, the temp drops so fast that the heater can't catch up, and it gives a low temp error. To avoid the issue, I have to immediately turn the fans off, and then gradually increase the speed manually.

The same gcode file did not have this issue before 14.12

 

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and then gradually increase the speed manually.

 

What settings are you using for the fan coming on? I believe the new defaults are 100% at .5mm maybe? meaning if you have .2mm layers it comes on rather quickly (40%,80%,100%). where the old default I think was 100% at 5mm. (4% increase per layer at .2mm, 2% at .1mm). Personally I typically use 100% at 1mm.

Of course for smaller parts it's even worse because if it can print a layer in 10 seconds it may be increasing fan speed faster than the heater can catch up.

 

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I have now had the Error - Stopped Heater error, twice. once on 14.12 then I saw this topic so downloaded 14.12.1 and have had it again. I have the fans set to come on 100% at 2mm for gradual increase as I didn't want to trigger the error. Now I have waisted 4m of BronzeFill :(

 

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I can confirm that I am facing the same problem "ERROR STOPPED - Heater Error" using both 14.12 as well as 14.12.1

This is on a machine that was working fine on older version and in which no physical changes were made other than firmware.

I rolled back to 14.07 but now, when I give a print command, the Nozzle moves to initial position, primes the material, and then stops without showing any error. I'll be trying out 14.09 to see if that works.

 

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