Acetone Finishing on PLA

[cloakfiend 995]

I'd like to see close up photos of the best quality he has achieved.

Personally I am not really interested in prints that are lower rez than 0.06, as with acetone i have become used to never seeing print lines, so suddenly seeing them would be a step back, but I'm sure others, perhaps in the cake industry, might be industry though.

[cloakfiend 995]

@Edel soory to get back so late, but here is a real quick and easy tut for you and anyone else interested! I know you said make one with no talking, but feel free to mute me! lol.

This is how I do things atm, by all means experiment with the durations of the dip and do what works best for you!!!

 

p.s. The acetone is reddish due to amount of red pla ive been dipping in it!

Edited February 23, 2017 by Guest

[Edel 5]

Today after long time of use I decide to change my Aceton

Look how many was inside the liquid

Do you havef this also?

[cloakfiend 995]

No mine is ok even after a few months (the one ive ised for over a year is dark and muddy though but still effective and runny). But ive only been using transparent red lately as i have a lot of it. Maybe thats why. But i also noticed that dipping times seem to vary after a while and the prints either go really bleached or not at all. I thought this was to do with air, but it could just be purity vs contamination.

Ive also been experimenting with primers lately after acetoning trying to get a nice surface coat and have have some interesting results. I also have an airbrush to try out after 10 years in my cupboard but need good advice on how to maintain it and if i can use certain paints. Ill post my favourite primers and explain why i like or dislike them to save others wasting their time.

But looks like your pla pha has more additives in it than mine. Its why i go for transparent. Yellow pla pha was pretty good too though as was dutch orange.

You must remember that you are dissolving a small amount of pha in the acetone hence there has to be something extra in the mix, but if you use white, i hear it has the most additives in it. In a bad way. The purer the pla pha combo the better. I think transparent works best imho.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Guest

[geert_2 557]

Hey cloakfiend,

A good starting point for searching primers might be car paints and primers for plastic parst, like for wheels covers and bumpers: they need to withstand a lot of abuse, sunlight, rain, stones,..., so they need to adhere well to various sorts of plastics (but mostly to ABS, PU, and polyester). For optimal adhesion, they should chemically bite into the plastic and chemically bond, not just cover it.

[Edel 5]

yeah, right, maybe a reason, is cause i used it long time on inofill PLA (i told you)

because it works here too, not so effectiv, but it works, if you bath is 1-3mins...

but i printed so much in this material, that i must work with..

[cloakfiend 995]

Yeah, you are probably right about the inofil, well it doesn't seem to get all thick and globby like that with colorfabb pal/pha, but the melted pla/pha must be going somewhere too! it just doesn't collect in blobs like that.

[cloakfiend 995]

Did a mess around sculpt and print just to see the state of my coupler, but it seems ok still? really nice print result without any hiccups. No post sanding at all with this one just to test the lazy approach. 20-25sec dip, i don't like dipping detailed models for too long as am paranoid that the detail will suffer eventually.

I bought some methyl chloride to test, but have never used it, and its only half full now? poor lid on that container!! It means i've been breathing that in over time as it evaporates! yuk! in the shed it goes....

..pics of my zombified mate.

last one was a bit crappy quality.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Guest

[geert_2 557]

I think they look really great. They look like high quality casts rather than 3D-prints.

Concerning a few occasional imperfections: if you look at bronze statues, they also contain lots of imperfections: scratches due to removing moulding or welding seams, circular defects from the removal of support pins from the moulding, sanding marks, washed-out details because of the polishing, and so on. While it may hurt to the eye because you know they are there, I consider it part of the job.

[cloakfiend 995]

I know but I can't help trying to reach perfection, or at least a clean print. Im still using the old black feeder so Im paranoid about snags and dust on the filament, but to be honest I just kick it off tune the setting as the first two layers print cross my fingers and then leave it to lady luck. Acetone is great because you keep finer detail than vapour by a mile and you get that perfectly smooth layer on spherical surfaces that vapour cannot achieve. My cura is very buggy though and have been noticing random setting getting turned on or off or that they just don't change if i tweak mid print. My main issues are the fan not going to 100% only 20% even though i set it to 100 and the line width randomly changing, but now i know I try to remember to check.

Neo told me that I'm printing on the limits of PLA but unfortunately this is where the high quality is at. Print too hot and the surface is not as uniform. Print too cold and the acetone will find small splits between your layers and crack your model. Its all about finding that sweet spot and you can use those settings to print anything unless there are too many retractions or if the model is too small.

(Lowering the plate to 55 was a help! btw )

Its by far the cheapest and quickest method i've tried, and although I keep trying new things, I keep returning to it. Ethyl Acetate was way too destructive long term. Looked shiny and no whitening for a few days. (maybe good for shows or demos!)

Ill post some long term pics soon to prove acetone will not crack after the initial rest period.

[cloakfiend 995]

I'm going to do a little summary down the line a few years later, showing you the effects of various dunks and brushes on over time and the reasons for each, as well as the galvanising tut, but I've decided to sell my flat so its bit hectic at the mo, but will definitely get round to it soon.

Just finally removed my dirty 2 year old TFM coupler now and replaced it with a brand new shiny new one! yay

I wasn't sure what the other one was and whether it was for the um2 standard nozzle or OB? so decided for a another year or so at least of perfect quality (as I tend to avoid retractions).....

Edited September 9, 2017 by Guest

[Edel 5]

hey i m compledly back to colorfabb for this aceton technique...

yes innofill and ice also works, works great, but if you let it a few secounds to long in aceton, it will later get crack :(

so taht risky...

[cloakfiend 995]

Im doing a very descriptive acetone infomercial (lol), and showing the various effects over the years (seeing as no one else seems to be as active in this method as I am) and showing what filaments i think are better and what cracks more and how and why and how to avoid it at best. Its gonna be a talky one though but i will be showing a lot of models i have done even from 3/4 years ago. And yes I still only use colour fabb now but still have a roll of original UM brand filament I only bring out for special prints! It rarer than hens teeth now that stuff!

BTW Colofabb cracks as well if you leave it too long. Thats why the original UM brand filament was the best! ( no cracking EVER!) on a side note cracking is also a sign that your not printing hot enough or the coupler is on its way out!

Edited November 13, 2017 by Guest

[cloakfiend 995]

Just a little acetone and airbrush comparison video. Both models printed one after the next, in yellow colorfabb filament, at 0.06. These were brush acetoned for a few seconds so the effect could have been stronger, but no splits on any of the prints.

 

I did a video about my older prints but rambled so long I decided to delete it, I think it important to see the amount of prints I've one though and the 99% success rate. Ethyl acetate success rates were far less, maybe 60-80 percent.

...funny thing is they look equally good in the vid, but the acetoned one is far better in real life! next vid will be more informative! details looks clearer on you tube btw!

Edited November 14, 2017 by Guest

[cloakfiend 995]

Ok so you've spent a few minutes acetoning your prints and then done a bit of post work and maybe painted them and whatever, but they still feel cheap! So....

Here's my next vid, and more to come.... but this one is a nice little one and everyone who I've given my prints to agrees with me that it makes them feel a lot better in their hands, aesthetically.

[geert_2 557]

Thanks for the video. Yes you are right: a piece of art needs sufficient weight to feel like art. Otherwise it feels like a cheap plastic toy, even if it looks identical.

A few questions: why not use a 20ml or 50ml syringe? Then you can inject it in one shot. In Belgium such syringes are available from our local pharmacy (way cheaper than from companies that sell laboratory equipment).

Instead of a needle, have you tried drilling a bigger hole, and using thin aquarium PVC tubing? Or no needle at all, just the syringe nozzle? Then you can make the mix thick like cream, and still have it extrude well. This will give a more sturdy and heavier filling, and it does not leak water.

When making dental gypsum models, the laboratories put the model on a vibrating plate: these strong vibrations make even very thick gypsum flow like liquid lava into all corners. It also helps the trapped air bubbles to float to the top and spat open. So if you would have something around that vibrates hard such as a small combustion motor, or a cylinder compressor (mount a flat metal plate on top, so you don't spoil gypsum into the compressor), that might help. I have a dedicated dental vibration plate, but that was not cheap. Or maybe you could try an electric tooth brush without brush, or even a female "massage tool"?

Anyway, keep posting videos and pictures.

[cloakfiend 995]

The vibrating plate is a great idea! but i don't have one, so i just need to bang it a lot. The needle is handy for the hard to reach places quickly as if its too thick it may not naturally go there... and yes! i have now already bought larger syringe!!, its just that my chemist didn't have any at the time! I have 20 syringes now of all different sizes! I was thinking of getting glass ones but they all get ruined eventually so theres no point in the extra cost. As for the hole, you don't want to make it too big as its just gonna need more filling and sanding and thats something Im trying to avoid or minimise at all costs. The less work the better! Some of my models don't have a flat bottom.

......maybe when I'm doing the washing i can put a few models on the washing machine? might work?

Edited November 16, 2017 by Guest

[geert_2 557]

The vibrating plate is a great idea! but i don't have one, so i just need to bang it a lot.

...

......maybe when I'm doing the washing i can put a few models on the washing machine? might work?

It really needs to vibrate hard to get a thick gypsum paste to flow well. Like a small combustion motor, a one or two cylinder engine. Putting the models on top of a washing machine will not work.

[cloakfiend 995]

Luckily I don't use really thick gypsum though so I don't think I'll run into that problem. If you do it when the paster is runny then you should be fine.

The main problem I have now is that i have done a multipart glued dog but stupidly drilled holes in the most discreet places, not realising they are not the highest point and will have to drill further holes to remove the air inside. :( more postwork, but its a test subject so I don't mind, this is all a learning curve anyways.

[nzo 16]

I modded a cheap Ryobi vibration sander to serve as a massager for aching muscles. It has variable vibration speed and plenty of power. These are the sanders that have a triangular head. That might do what you need for around $40 to $50.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Guest

[cloakfiend 995]

I don't think Ill need the vibration thing... i just made a real mess in my garage!!!!

The only problem I have now is the unpredictable hardening times of the plaster (blocking needles) and squirting of the plaster out of the hole that goes all over the place when the pressure gets too high and I take the needle out. A blunt needle is definitely not better than a sharp one. the blunt one hits a wall flat on rather than the point and you can get crazy plaster spewing out of the hole as there is no gap like there would be from a sharp needle with the point giving you a few mil from where it touches the wall....had to change my clothes twice today! very annoyed!

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Here is a question that harkens to the old days when I would develop my own B/W film and prints.

Is there something that would act as a 'stop bath' for the acetone to prevent it from continuing to work on  the plastic after you finish?

My chemistry is sucky, so I have to ask.....

Edited November 17, 2017 by Guest

[nzo 16]

Acetone is described as a very weak acid.

Alcohol in the sense of Ethanol is good for removing acetone, acetone mixes with alcohol, and these H-bonds are much stronger than plastic-acetone adhesive bonds, so acetone flows away with the Alcohol. That's it. Just wash the surface again with soap and water once you're done with alcohol cleansing to do away with the odour of the alcohol. And yes, alcohol is almost pH neutral, so nothing to get corroded using the alcohol, BUT ONLY ETHANOL.

Dish-washing liquid is suggested as another acetone stopper.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Guest

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Acetone is described as a very weak acid.

Alcohol in the sense of Ethanol is good for removing acetone, acetone mixes with alcohol, and these H-bonds are much stronger than plastic-acetone adhesive bonds, so acetone flows away with the Alcohol. That's it. Just wash the surface again with soap and water once you're done with alcohol cleansing to do away with the odour of the alcohol. And yes, alcohol is almost pH neutral, so nothing to get corroded using the alcohol, BUT ONLY ETHANOL.

Dish-washing liquid is suggested as another acetone stopper.

Thanks man!! Wow...search engines are your friends, but some reason I brain farted that one and it did not register to do that.......

Thank you for doing the leg work me wee pointy head could not accomplish....

[cloakfiend 995]

Lol,

I can't believe I didn't think of that either! I will assume the same goes for ethyl Acetate?

I shall be giving it a go, but I have a feeling what has been absorbed has been absorbed, but if it stops if from cracks a month or two down the line then I will let you know!!

On a side note, Dishwasher liquid removes ABS from the build plate like butter from a plate, so I assumed it might have the same effect as acetone on PLA but will definitely try washing my print after smoothing has been applied.

My latest plate test failed btw