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bjorn

First layer not closed with Simplify3D

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Hi all!

[uPDATE/ EDIT]: This seems mainly a Simplify3D issue. Edited the below message accordingly.

I hope someone can help me out..

I've tried many settings for the first layer in Simplify3D but I get very poor results anyhow. I always have a gap between the lines and if I increase first layer width the gap becomes larger and the infill lines don't touch the outlines anymore.

I'm printing PLA, bed is leveled (multiple times) at 1 paper thickness. I'm using buildtak as adhesive layer.

Here are some examples I tried with Simplify3D (iphone case @ 50% scale):

szk7x4.jpg

qzq88x.jpg

nqo3zq.jpg

I really hope someone can tell me what is wrong here and how to fix this..

Thanks

Björn

 

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H Bjorn, Ok your problem really is trying to print the 1st layer at 0.1. To do this successfully everything else needs to absolutely right, i.e. bed levelling, nozzle to bed distance and temps. Far better to use 0.3 for the first layer. You do this under the Advanced tab\ Quality\ initial layer thickness. Reset your layer thickness %s and line widths %s back to 100%.

There is no right or wrong answer to the following but with PLA where necessary you can improve your 1st layer adhesion by adding say 5 degrees to your bed temp and extruder temp for the 1st layer. I print my 1st layer at a minimum of 210c; if the extruder temp I want to use is higher than 210c then I set the 1st layer temp the same as all the other layers. I set my bed temp to 65c and then for 2nd and subsequent layers I change it to 60c. If I remember rightly you can do this in Slic3r but with Cura you will need to change the bed and extruder temps after the 1st layer manually.

Use 20mm/s for your 1st layer print speed. If you have a glass plate on your print bed then your printer bed temp. monitor is almost certainly measuring the bed temp. NOT the temp. of the glass plate (they will be different). On my printer I add 8 or 9 degrees to the bed temp. settings to get the glass up to the required temp. And if you are printing something with a large base, say 50% + of the build plate, remember that it takes time with most printers t get the entire bed up to the required temp. On my printer when the centre of the bed reaches the desired temp. the perimeters of the bed can be 10-15c cooler. So you need to wait and use a digital thermometer to measure the bed before starting the print.

 

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Hi Yellowshark,

Thanks for your answer. I think though that what you describe in your first paragraph is about cura? I have Cura at 0.3mm first layer. It's better but still not closed.

My examples are about slicing in Simplify3D.

In simplify3D you set the 'Primary Layer Thickness' as the overall layer thickness (the layer thickness for the primary extruder, yes it's confusing) and there is a separate box to set thickness and width of the first layer in percentage of the primary layer thickness.

2vcjnuw.jpg

In my last example photo above I was printing at 0.1mm, with first layer thickness at 200%, so 0.2mm.

In the Simplify3D manual it states that the first layer height doesn't change the amount of material being extruded, so if you print at 0.1 and you set the first layer height 90%, you print 100% of the material on a 0.09 layer, so it should become wider. It also says you can use this to make the first layer thicker as I am trying, but it would still extrude the same amount of material. Changing the first layer width doesn't seem to change that, but it does change the distance between the lines, so if you make the first layer wider it just prints the lines further apart ánd it stops further from the outline (see the most right image on my 3rd photo above).

So in conclusion:

In Cura I'm getting reasonable results with a .3 layer thickness, although the lines still don't connect entirely.

In Simplify3D I am unable to create a .3 first layer with a .1 overal resolution. I must oversee something really basic I think..

 

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Hi Bjorn, sorry for my misinterpretation of “Primary”, it was late when I saw your post! I do not know Simply3D so cannot comment really. All I will say is that it has always been my understanding that if you set the first layer to a thicker resolution you will get more material extruded. In Cura if you set a 1st layer of 0.3 the print bed is lowered 0.3 before starting the print so my view would be that there HAS to be more material extruded – but I did not write the code so who knows!

1st layer width is a fairly recent option added to Cura but I have never used it as I rarely get a problems with the 1st layer – for me normally a sign that bed levelling and /or nozzle bed distance need tuning. Lol I will probably get flamed now but for me these type of settings are just used to hide the fact that you have a problem with your printer setup and I would rather fix the setup than mask it.

If I look at you pics I would say that all of them are quite poor, possibly in the last pic the print on the left is almost there in the extreme top left corner. I would suggest you use those settings in Cura and then adjust the nozzle width distance with the screws whilst it is printing to get it right. Personally I would use something with a larger base – just take a cube and modify the x/y dimensions and set z to 0.3. I have only done this once but it is a quick way of getting it correct and is quite a nice method. I normally use the z-offset to achieve the same thing. It takes considerably longer but is potentially a more accurate approach and there is no danger of disturbing the bed level.

 

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I already sent you this link personally, but here is it for anyone else having the same issues, i made some screenshots with the right settings for the UM2, it seems that some standard settings aren't right at all, filament diameter for example was set at 3mm instead 2.85

so the following screenshots should help:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ogt7h6gdqsprzt9/AABA58TG_oslHlTjqXijV0Oia?dl=0

 

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Thanks for the screenshots.

In my version of Simplify3D the filament diameter is correct at 2.85mm. However, in your screenshots I see an extrusion multiplier of 2, where I have 1.1 as the default setting. Off course that would be a big difference, but I am a bit cautious to put this value in because it's pretty extreme I think.

Are you sure you are actually printing with this multiplier?

What are your settings for .06mm layers?

I am running S3D 2.2.2 by the way.

 

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Factor 2.0 wasn't working well. Lot's of mess around the print. Trying @ 1.5 now and seems to print fine without mess, but it can also be the retraction setting. Default is 4.5mm and in your screens it's 2.5mm. I changed it back to 4.5 now.

For the first layer I now have 200% height, 90% width. Combined with Extrusion multiplier of 1.5 this seems to give me a closed first layer.

I'll post a picture of the result when it's done.

 

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