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A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer


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Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

Yea that would be the best approach for sure, but would require a more complex arrangement of the main carriage. Any which way the print area is going to be reduced quite a bit though..

 

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I use Moi3D.

     

    The plan is for it to be able to pick up a print head from either corner, correct? Seems like that would make the most efficient use of space.

     

    Yes, a simple, single-sided gripper would be easier but I can only think of designs here which occupy a considerable part of the print area.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Hmm, can it export or convert to .ipt files? I use autodesk inventor. I can start from scratch too though if needed.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    sorry, no .ipt.

    IGES, 3DS?

    Just read somewhere that autodesk inventor may be able to open .3dm (openNURBS) directly?

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Uploaded sample files for a 30x35mm mount (30x30mm cartridge, 35mm high).

    Cut out the magnets of you choice (2 x approx 1.5 kg holding force is fine) and incorporate the mounting plates into your design.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I was thinking that from the top the design would look like a capital "T". The top of the "T" would be just wide enough for the bearing and the vertical part would carry the magnets with alignments points for the cartridge on both sides. Ideally it would be just thick enough to accommodate the y axis bearing. The print head would be oriented to keep the hit end as close to the x axis center of the holder.

    My assumption, based on the current design, is that the print area lost due to the offset between the hot end tips would be less than the area lost due to the unusuable gap between the hot end docks (when they are placed on the same side.) But that is just a guess and might not be true, if the are required for accessing the dock is made small enough.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Also thinking that the direct drive extruder mechanics could be mounted high enough that their bulk might fit over the xy carriage. Then the hot end would fit down through the corner, so that the cartridge would have a profile of a block on top with a rectangular block coming down from one corner.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I was thinking that from the top the design would look like a capital "T". The top of the "T" would be just wide enough for the bearing and the vertical part would carry the magnets with alignments points for the cartridge on both sides. Ideally it would be just thick enough to accommodate the y axis bearing. The print head would be oriented to keep the hit end as close to the x axis center of the holder.

    My assumption, based on the current design, is that the print area lost due to the offset between the hot end tips would be less than the area lost due to the unusuable gap between the hot end docks (when they are placed on the same side.) But that is just a guess and might not be true, if the are required for accessing the dock is made small enough.

     

    Almost exactly my thoughts... The "T" with mirrored cartridges is my first choice for a dual setup.

    If standard electronics would allow for more a quad setup with "X" shaped gripper and identical cartridges and holders in each corner but rotated by 90/180/270° would be interesting.

    And yes, you can put the bulk above the gripper. The only thing to bear in mind is that there is not too much inert mass or a long lever where a force can attack to break the holding force of the magnets. But the 80 gr of the NEMA8 were no problem at all.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I've just ordered a couple of E3D v6 hot ends for this project. I like my dual extrusion, so considering the dual carriage setup straight off the bat. I also ordered the bowden version to try first, as I think this will allow for an extra small carriage. Also waiting to hear from Mutley3D. Ultimate aim is definitely flex drive.

    Am am able to load the Stp files into inventor. Do you happen to have the 'phmod v5 head' file in the same format?

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Apologies, didn't realise you had already sorted the dual carriage part with the 'module'which appears to allow carriages on both the left and right side of it (looking from top down from the front). I've managed to modify the file to suit the magnets I have got, hopefully they are not too strong being the 3mm ones. Printing now in clear XT.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    50% more holding force should be ok because the split/unlock move doesn't require much force.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Did you print the corner split tool in two parts of one? In the STL its one part, but when I open the stp, I can see its designed in two parts.

    Btw, printed the other parts, and its a great printing design, so easy. The XT came out really well. I read you have been having problems with it, and I have also. However with 100% infill, 247 nozzle, 70 bed and 0.1 layer height with 50% fan it worked well. Oh and 40mm/s speed.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    I'm also going to have a go at other designs, try and make it more compact with less space loss. It seems the left hand side of the build area is out of use, might limit printer function considerably, especially for larger prints.

    So, this may be an idea. I know it means you may lose build height, but maybe the lesser of two evils. Especially with machines like the UM2 extended coming out. Also, the E3d is only 60 something mm tall, so don't think it will end up far off the standard UMO height. Tool storage and collection may render the some of the build plate unusable on the right hand side though, not thought too much about that yet.

    https://www.youmagine.com/designs/module-underslung-tool-carriage

    PS its only a very crude model of it to see what it would look like. A E3D bowden setup I think would be possible with this design, but the direct drive carriage maybe not without compromising too much height.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Also just realised with a design like this, only single sided is required, and both tool carriages could be stored at the back left and right of the machine, where the least space is wasted as the heated bed doesn't go back that far. This would be a kind of Asymmetric design. Just have to design the carriages for the bowden and wires to miss the gantry. Apologies for the rambling, just getting my thoughts down.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Very crude remodel based on above thoughts:

    gallery_36287_1637_79033.png

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Magnets arrived today, so will start the redesign in ernest. Ive started to design the tool carriage home for the back left of the UM, with a view to mirroring it in Cura for the back right side. I'm hoping for no more than a 30x30 carriage with the E3d V6 and bowden setup.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    If anyone wants to try it: https://www.youmagine.com/designs/e3d-v6-modular-print-carriage-system

    Edit: just printed, but not quite right yet. Youmagine description has details.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Any way this could be done with a tool head revolver? It seems a shame to loose more print area with each added head.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    As long as its only 2 heads, print area is not reduced by much. But its a good idea, anything is possible given the time and inclination!

    Including commands to control the head revolver into the gcode may also be problematic, not sure how that would be done.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Including commands to control the head revolver into the gcode may also be problematic, not sure how that would be done.

     

    Well, CNC machines do tool changes with ATC revolvers all the time, but I figure that the simplest way to control a revolver from the gcode in Marlin would be to treat the revolver as the first extruder, and the true extruders as extruder 2, 3, 4, .... Then, you could issue a M302 P1 (allow cold extrudes, necessary since the revolver is "cold"), then a T0 (select the revolver), then rotate the revolver to drop the old head and pick up the new head, then issue a M302 P0 (deny cold extrudes), and a T(?) to activate the newly selected head. This all presupposes replacement electronics that support multiple extruders, but you would need that past dual extrusion anyway.

     

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Interesting idea. I'll try to get this working with the current proposed setup first I think. The main aim for me is clean dual extrusion prints. After that direct extrusion by flex drive so I can print ninjaflex etc.

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    Posted · A different multi-extrusion approach - UM tool / printhead changer

    Well, CNC machines do tool changes with ATC revolvers all the time, but I figure that the simplest way to control a revolver from the gcode in Marlin would be to treat the revolver as the first extruder, and the true extruders as extruder 2, 3, 4, .... Then, you could issue a M302 P1 (allow cold extrudes, necessary since the revolver is "cold"), then a T0 (select the revolver), then rotate the revolver to drop the old head and pick up the new head, then issue a M302 P0 (deny cold extrudes), and a T(?) to activate the newly selected head. This all presupposes replacement electronics that support multiple extruders, but you would need that past dual extrusion anyway.

     

    One difficulty I see is keeping all the filament tubes from getting tangled.

     

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