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keukpa

Not had a successful print :(

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Hi all,

I've been printing with my Up! printer for about 2 years, and it is simply AMAZING, by FAR the BEST printer I've ever had..... however the build plate isn't too large.

So I thought I'd get an Ultimaker 2 after reading all the good reviews, but I'm having serious problems trying to print, so I hope someone can help me. When printing the first layer, sometimes 'most' of it prints perfect and then just fails, and sometimes none of it prints.....

I'm using PLA at 210C and 60C bed temp...I've attached two pictures of what's happening....

Any tips / points / ideas would be GREATLY appreciated.

Regards,

Keukpa

IMG 20150227 WA0000

IMG 20150226 WA0003

 

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What is the filament exactly? More than PLA, who makes it, what color/type?

Print speed? Layer thickness?

The pictures are rather small, even when full size, but I seem to be seeing a thicker bottom layer towards the front right than towards the back left? - implying a levelling problem. If the bed is too close then this can sometimes block the nozzle.

 

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Hi DonMilne,

Thanks for the reply, the filament is the PLA that comes with the printer direct from Ultimaker.

The pics should be 14Mpix, maybe the gallery is reducing them, I'll check....

As for other stuff,

I'm printing at 0.1mm, at 50mm/s

Thanks for your help,

Keukpa

 

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Try to clean the bed, maybe there is some grease/fat on it.

Which speed are you printing? Set this to 50 mm/s

Which layer height? Set this to 0,3 mm for the first layer

210C and 60C should be ok.

If the bed is leveled, there should be everything okay to get a successful print.

 

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I've cleaned the bed using isopropyl and all the dirt and grease is cleaned off....

I've tried levelling the bed about 10 times and always get this problem

I've also tried the gluestick that comes with the printer but this makes the problem about 100 times worse as the filament just slides over the places where I've put glue....

 

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The bed looks pretty close. Stop doing the bed level procedure and simply adjust the 3 screws as necessary. You want the filament squished flat but not too flat, lol. Most of the print looks properly levelled - not sure about the failing area.

Now on to your problem - I'm not certain (video would help) but I think those failure spots are the filament feeder skipping backwards. This happens when there is too much pressure for it to push on - typically 10 pounds (that's for you imperial unit british people).

You didn't answer key questions earlier - what is your print speed and layer height - I assume bottom layer is .3mm but maybe you did thinner? You need even better leveling for thinner layers. I'm guessing your only problem is printing too cold and too fast. Here are max speeds versus temperature I recommend for quality printing on UM2 or UMO. This is valid only for .3MM LAYERS. For .2mm layers go 50% faster for .1mm layers max speed is 3X these values:

14mm/sec at 200C

20mm/sec at 210C

27mm/sec at 225C

33mm/sec at 240C

Note that Cura does a special speed for the bottom layer only. I think it defaults to 40mm/sec? Or maybe 20mm/sec?

Another thing that can cause skipping on the bottom layer is leveling - if the nozzle is too close. But usually you will see that the layer is so thin it's transparent before that's a problem. But still - it can happen. The bottom layer is very tricky and if you want it to look perfect you need extra perfect leveling but don't use the procedure - that just gets you close (within about .1mm). Instead do final adjustments by looking at the bottom layer and turning only 1/4 turn at a time or even a little less (1/8 turn).

 

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By the way you really should print with glue. You need very little so you can mix in a little water and spread it around with a tissue. It should be so thin it's invisible once it dries again but you can test it by peeling/scratching some with your fingernail - it's still there.

 

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Thanks for the info gr5, something you've said was going to be my next question....

Now on to your problem - I'm not certain (video would help) but I think those failure spots are the filament feeder skipping backwards. This happens when there is too much pressure for it to push on - typically 10 pounds (that's for you imperial unit british people).

Indeed, the extruder (or filament feeder) stepper motor DOES indeed click and when I look at it, seem to 'skip' backwards during print....

So you think this could be my problem? So do I heat up and print at a higher temperature or only print at the slower speeds?

As for the other questions:

For 1st layer the settings are:

1) Layer height: 0.3

2) Speed: 20mm/s

Thanks so much for your help, I hope I can solve the skipping feeder motor and fix these problems :)

Keukpa

 

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If it is skipping on the bottom layer it is almost ALWAYS because you are too close. Rotate the screw clockwise (tighten) such that you have more space on that side of your print bed by 1/8 turn.

If it is skipping on HIGHER layers it has nothing to do with leveling and the most common issue is printing too fast or too cold (unlike the UP the Ultimaker has extremely high acceleration such that if you ask for 50mm/sec you actually get 50mm/sec whereas you are lucky to get 25mm/sec out of the up).

 

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Hi gr5,

Thanks for the tips, so I'm getting sooooooo much better prints now, this is what I've done (some photos attached)....

1) I started the print, and adjusted the screws on the bed for parts where the feeder motor would skip, this reduced the skipping but didn't stop it....

2) So it got to the part of the print where it kept failing, so I went into the Tune menu and upped the temperature, I changed it from 210 to 240 and now it doesn't skip at all and the prints are looking sooo much better!!

Some pics attached!

Cheers,

Keukpa

20150227 174441

 

Showing distance of head from bed

 

20150227 174156

 

Failing the print, this is all done at 210C

 

20150227 174522

20150227 174517

 

These prints are now much better at I changed the temp to 240C

 

20150227 180810

This is now printing the 2nd layer and looks great!

 

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Excellent. Now you should know that at 240C your teflon isolator may die sooner - maybe after 500 hours of printing? I'm not sure. And if you can keep it at 230C that would help extend it's lifetime. But the part is cheap (free since you can get one from UM for free) and there are isolator washer's coming out soon I think from third parties (they isolate the isolator).

 

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This happens when there is too much pressure for it to push on - typically 10 pounds (that's for you imperial unit british people).

 

Um, George... we Brits gave up imperial units decades ago! The only people who still use them will be old retired engineers on woodworking forums and the like. As the saying goes, "a pint is a pound, the world around, provided the world consists of USA and Liberia..." :)

Regarding the OPs problem - it crossed my mind to wonder about filament tension. Too much tension could increase the load on the feeder motor and cause skipping. If the filament has very heavy track marks from the knurled drive wheel then the tension is too high.

 

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LOL not strictly true - I know how many miles per gallon my car does but no idea how many kilometres per litre it does! The Americans are hedging their bets, my American car uses imperial and metric fasteners. The French as usual are very diplomatic, you order a large or small beer. And my new tyre pressure monitor is PSI.

 

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But doesn't ABS print at about 260C anyway? So I'm not overly fussed, I might buy a stock of spare parts anyways just so I have them....so long as it's printing, I'm happy :D

Keukpa

I would not recommend printing ABS at 260 C, at least not for long prints anyways. If you want to see what happens check it out. Always check the recommended temperature settings for your filament from the manufacturer, also measure the filament when you get it, and use an average of several measurements for filament diameter in the "Material Settings" menu on the printer. I've heard that ABS can be printed ~245 C and you should be fine.

For bed leveling you can use something like this.

You can also keep your eye on these threads regarding upgrades for the heater block.

Oh, one last thing, this thread has a list of several printable parts (designed mostly by geniuses from this forum) that can improve the UM2.

 

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I usually print ABS at 245C but I don't get great layer adhesion - even with the fan off. It's strong but not nearly as strong as PLA. It breaks along layer lines if you push hard enough. I should probably print closer to 260C to get strong parts but I don't want to wreck my isolator so I'm waiting on a nice solution from Anders Olsson. We'll see. Until then I print at 245C. It's a good safe starting temp for ABS newbies like me (only printed about 20 parts in ABS ever).

 

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Maybe it's worth pointing out that if you really need to go up to 240 to get over the underextrusion issue, something is to be adjusted anyway, as, as gr5 pointed out, your teflon coupler will not last long. I had to change mine after 300 hours of PLA printing at 210-220°C, so 500 hours at 240 is a very optimistic estimate imho.

It could be that you need a good atomic cleaning (nozzle partly clogged)? Or that the teflon isolator is already gone (but the printer is new correct?) Or that this specific filament has problems? That despite all, the bed is still not perfectly leveled?

Not sure what it is, but I hope the solution will not be to print PLA at 240°C. This has many issues beyond the teflon coupler thing, such as bad overhangs, oozing, surface problems etc.. Ideally you should be able to print well from 200°C up to 230° (my very max for PLA) with no problems, if you select the correct speeds in cura.

 

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This hat to be related to the Matrial.

I ordered my Printer with several colors from Ultimaker with which i did many successfull prints. Then i tried the silver one.

Never got anything usefull out of it. With glue, without glue.

Nothing works with this stuff. Changing back to a different PLA Color everything started working again.

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