Calling All UM2 Users - Can You Match or Beat These Prints?

[mitchfx 0]

I'm in the market for a 2nd printer and would like something with a larger build volume and slightly better quality than what I'm getting from my current model (Flashforge Dreamer). The Ultimaker 2 is at the top of my list after weeks of research, but I want to make sure any new printer it can match or exceed the surface quality and detail at 100 microns or better resolution.

My main issue with my current printer is some excessive ringing and ghosting in areas of high detail. Here are some photos of my prints...

3.5" 100 micron PLA.

30mm tall 100 micron PLA

5" tall 100 micron PLA

4" tall 100 micron PLA.

Thanks!

Mitch

 

[Anders Olsson 136]

One thing to do would be to upload one of your models and wait for Ultimaker owners here to accept the challenge :smile:

To start with, it is not completely obvious that the UM2 beats the Flashforge, you can check this topic: http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/6293-comparison-of-ultimaker-2-to-mankati-xt/?p=91993

I never got any reply in that thread on the how the Flashforge handles fast accelerations though, something that there is most likely a lot of in your models. I imagine this can cause the problems with ringing and that the UM2 has an advantage there.

According to my latest tests it also seems like the nozzle design on the Flashforge is a bit better than the UM2 original nozzle, and that that might be the main reason for the quality difference. Some rumors claim new UM2 now ship with a slightly improved nozzle.

You will never get away from the fact that having the feeder close to the nozzle will give you slightly better flow control though, but it has most impact on really tiny objects.

I designed an upgrade for the UM2 by the way which makes it possible to fit E3D-nozzles and similar, which means you can select from nozzles between 0.25-0.8 mm, and thereby go for finer details or higher printing speed: http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/7689-custom-heater-block-to-fit-e3d-nozzle-on-ultimaker-2/

The Ultimaker can print down to 0.02 mm layers, which tends to take forever but of course also improves the surface quality a lot. I recently printed a solid thing the size of a matchbox at 0.04 mm and 40 mm/s with a 0.3 mm nozzle it took 18 hours. So if you have the patience, you can get really nice prints.

In your case, I would also consider testing other filaments. Some of the filled ones for example, like the Laybrick, can give a really smooth, stone-like surface that is almost impossible to get with unfilled plastics.

They can be a bit tricky to print though, I would advice to use as little retraction as possible for Laybrick for instance.

 

[mitchfx 0]

I'm not seeing where to add attachments on this forum. There is an "attachments" area under the "my media" link, but nowhere I could find to actually upload. Maybe because my account is so new?

If anyone wants to give this STL a test run I'd appreciate it. Rapide 3d, MakerGear and Maker's Toolworks have all kicked one out for me, so that only leaves the Ultimaker 2.

 

One thing to do would be to upload one of your models and wait for Ultimaker owners here to accept the challenge :smile:

To start with, it is not completely obvious that the UM2 beats the Flashforge, you can check this topic: http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/6293-comparison-of-ultimaker-2-to-mankati-xt/?p=91993

I never got any reply in that thread on the how the Flashforge handles fast accelerations though, something that there is most likely a lot of in your models. I imagine this can cause the problems with ringing and that the UM2 has an advantage there.

According to my latest tests it also seems like the nozzle design on the Flashforge is a bit better than the UM2 original nozzle, and that that might be the main reason for the quality difference. Some rumors claim new UM2 now ship with a slightly improved nozzle.

You will never get away from the fact that having the feeder close to the nozzle will give you slightly better flow control though, but it has most impact on really tiny objects.

I designed an upgrade for the UM2 by the way which makes it possible to fit E3D-nozzles and similar, which means you can select from nozzles between 0.25-0.8 mm, and thereby go for finer details or higher printing speed: http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/7689-custom-heater-block-to-fit-e3d-nozzle-on-ultimaker-2/

The Ultimaker can print down to 0.02 mm layers, which tends to take forever but of course also improves the surface quality a lot. I recently printed a solid thing the size of a matchbox at 0.04 mm and 40 mm/s with a 0.3 mm nozzle it took 18 hours. So if you have the patience, you can get really nice prints.

In your case, I would also consider testing other filaments. Some of the filled ones for example, like the Laybrick, can give a really smooth, stone-like surface that is almost impossible to get with unfilled plastics.

They can be a bit tricky to print though, I would advice to use as little retraction as possible for Laybrick for instance.

 

[DidierKlein 729]

There's no way to add an STL to the forum, you can use some file sharing website like dropbox or something like that?

 

[skint 61]

Upload it to YouMagine

 

[swordriff 119]

Id like to print it, the 30mm one...using 025 nozzle

 

[mitchfx 0]

https://www.youmagine.com/design_ideas/old-man-head-section#!design-idea-documents

 

[tinkergnome 927]

Mmmmhhh....

 

You are not authorized to access this page.

Any chance to make it public...?

 

[mitchfx 0]

Try this...

https://www.youmagine.com/designs/old-man-head-section-test

 

Mmmmhhh....

 

You are not authorized to access this page.

Any chance to make it public...?

 

[cloakfiend 995]

Nice models, did you sculpt them? love the they live one! a true classic!

the ultimaker would do a nice job on these at 0.06. if you post up the they live one, id be happy to give you a test result that id even do an acetone dip with my pla method to make it as perfect as i could achieve just to compare.

 

[mitchfx 0]

Cloakfiend,

Yes, these are from my own zbrush sculpts. I'd be happy to post a partial section of the They Live bust but not able to upload the entire model for a variety of reasons. I'm still curious to see that old man head that I uploaded test printed on the U2.

Thanks.

 

[oppass 0]

0.1mm, PLA. MBR2, one of my kids (but I love my UMO more).

 

[mitchfx 0]

Looks pretty good, but it would be really nice to see a print from the UM2. Here's a newer test print with speed and extrusion adjusted to further reduce the lines on my current printer. I'm still trying to get an example of a FFF print that meets or beats it before I decide on the next purchase. So far test prints from the M2, MendelMax3 and Rapide Lite have yet to sway me.

 

[mitchfx 0]

Going to try a fully calibrated test tonight at 80 microns and slower speed to see just how clean I can get this to look.

 

[oppass 0]

I agree there's not much in it. Although I still think MBR2 has your Flashforge beat here . And I built mine with 1 shell and 0 infill (looks like you did 20%, why?). Maybe someone else can judge. Yeah, let's see how much UM2 can out do us both.

I think some of the banding we're both experiencing could also be due to filament diameter variation. If you really want good resolution, take a look at what the Envisiontec machines can do. Although I personally think the B9 Creator is pretty much at the same level -- and not that much more $$$ now than UM2.

Any reason you're sticking with FFF?

 

[mitchfx 0]

I'm not 100% clear by what you mean by "not much in it". Your print does look good but it would be nice to see a photo with better lighting. I don't mind some random changes of layer width and occasional banding. I actually prefer that over harshly defined lines that are evenly spaced. Almost like a stochastic sampling to give it some natural chaos

There are a few reasons I'm sticking with FFF. First of all is material costs. Right now a small bust costs me less than $1 to print in a really nice quality PLA. Second is the fact that I have friends with the Form1 and they have WAY more failed prints and other issues that I do. Lastly is I want to upgrade to something with a larger build volume. This kind of size in SLA would be extremely expensive. Like I said, I'm not unhappy with the quality of the Dreamer/Dremel...I just want more build height and a second printer that can run at the same time to get stuff done faster.

Thanks for doing that test print!

 

I agree there's not much in it. Although I still think MBR2 has your Flashforge beat here . And I built mine with 1 shell and 0 infill (looks like you did 20%, why?). Maybe someone else can judge. Yeah, let's see how much UM2 can out do us both.

 

I think some of the banding we're both experiencing could also be due to filament diameter variation. If you really want good resolution, take a look at what the Envisiontec machines can do. Although I personally think the B9 Creator is pretty much at the same level -- and not that much more $$$ now than UM2.

Any reason you're sticking with FFF?

 

[oppass 0]

I get it. Yes, build volume is pretty tiny for SLA. And material cost is important too. Another thing for me: material choice makes FFF the most attractive option too.

By "not much in it" I meant not much difference between our prints. And, like you, I wouldn't be swayed to switch printers unless I see an improvement.

Let's see if someone takes your challenge and posts an awesome UM2 print that impresses us. Swordriff?

 

[Anders Olsson 136]

If no one else prints it on the UM2 coming days, I will try to do it during easter.

I have some urgent things which needs to be printed first though.

 

[oppass 0]

Thanks for planning to volunteer.

 

[cloakfiend 995]

@mitchfx, if you're gonna go down the high rez printing route, then do it at 60 microns and dip it in acetone for like 45 seconds (black colorfabb pla and blue ultimaker PLA work great). It should smooth the tiny lines out and leave you with an almost perfeclty finished piece. I've learnt that i need to clean my nozzle out a little more than i thought i'd have to to avoid my dreaded cloggs and the stupid roll keeps tangling my damn PLA getting caught up on itself.

I can show you some ultra close ups of those models and you wont easily be able to tell they've been printed on an 3dprinter.

 

[oppass 0]

"I can show you some ultra close ups...

cloakfiend, could you? It would be great to see your version of the 30mm head I posted. I for one am a little skeptical that an acetone dip will smooth out the wrinkles too much. Old man wrinkles are beautiful!

 

[cloakfiend 995]

Here is a close up of mario, also 4inches tall. 0.06 layer height using my acetone dip method, black colorfabb pla(which almost guarantees you wont lose too much detail) and printed at 35mm/s and 210 degrees i think i forget i would do it at 220 now, lol?

screengrab

 

[cloakfiend 995]

if you send the they live one i promise not to share it, and only print it as a comparison for you, i could do it tomorrow if you want. I just love that movie...

 

[oppass 0]

Mario indeed looks very finished. Impressive. Yes, it would be great to see your acetone method on the original poster's model that I printed too. Here's the link again for you. Cheers.

https://www.youmagin...ad-section-test

 

[cloakfiend 995]

Ok heres the 0.06 untouched model 30mm on Z at 210C 35mm/s no infill just 1.2 shell. UM blue PLA.

upload pic

screenshot software

image hosting site over 5mb

Ill do the acetone dip and see how it look after.....

Ok ill give it an hour and post the pics. still some lines, but still ok, some detail has been lost, but i guess you could just paint it without the dip, as its pretty detailed.