general forum feedback

[peetersm 124]

 

The notification bell has moved down. This is making it harder to click on . At least on ipad3 IOS 7.0.1

I can only see half of it the bottom half goes off the blue bar

 

Can you make a screenshot? Thank you!

 

[Blizz 53]

Since when is it normal practice to push people to the very last browser/os version to have a site work? It up to us developers to make sure that the site works everywhere... What a laziness. I still have a sizeable percentage of people using IE9 on my sites and guess what: It works for them too.

[Anders Olsson 136]

As you might have noticed, I have sadly given up this forum long time ago.

It is still, after almost ten months online, unacceptably slow to navigate compared to all other forum softwares and full of annoying bugs. I just can not take this kind of stupidity, that is why I am not active anymore.

And I am seriously worried that the mentality that keeps this software alive might bring Ultimaker as a company down in the end.

The whole idea if inventing the wheel again in this way is very difficult to understand for me. If the new forum had obvious advantages over all other common forum softwares it would be one thing, but I fail to see any advantages at all actually?

As I mentioned in another post, the post counter is not working properly anymore, but I reckon that we still see about 40% of the posts that the old forum had last year at this time.

Considering that Ultimaker probably sold a five digit number of printers or so since then, I would say the figures are alarming.

This also brings up a very serious issue: Many people, including me, paid a lot extra to get the Ultimaker in favor of other brands just because of the (old) forum. The fact that Ultimaker ruined that means serious badwill for Ultimaker as a company.

So why is Ultimaker not doing anything about this?

Most likely because:

1. Too much money was spent on this project, so it simply can not fail (a bit like a certain fighter jet project).

2. Ultimaker is scattered as a company and the board is disconnected from the community section, not realizing the value of the community.

3. There are still enough users that whoever defends the forum can claim that it is just a temporary drop and that it will soon recover, that all questions has been answered, and such excuses.

I would also say that the mentality that "we will never consider vbulletin" is very worrying. That goes against the open source community concept that Ultimaker used to stand for.

I personally think it would be reasonable to let the community be part of selecting the forum software, as the community members largely works completely for free for Ultimaker when they post here. Forcing them to use software that does not work properly when they are trying to help other users  for free is a very risky move in the long run.

I am actually a bit surprised that no one has started an independent Ultimaker forum yet, I would have moved there immediately.

So what can one do, apart from starting another forum?

Well, the forums it its users, so I guess that if everyone just stopped using the forum until it runs on properly working software we could have it back on vbulletin in a few months..

Edited February 7, 2016 by Guest

[LePaul 321]

We keep pointing out flaws, they keep saying "We fixed something try it again"....and week by week, the population of people hanging out here dwindles.   And the biggest PRO of the Ultimaker is its community, right?   Well...your community is annoyed you do not take our complaints seriously.  And many frequent posters are gone or opt to only stop in every few days.

I'm all for a new home.... but since Ultimaker is flush with way more money than I am, I keep hoping they'll fit it!

Edited February 7, 2016 by Guest

[Dim3nsioneer 557]

@anders-olsson: Thank you for those honest words.

It's not only the forum.

For me, there are multiple things wrong at Ultimaker. This is a very subjective view but my impression is that Ultimaker has drawn red lines beyond which they do not care anymore about the users. That's actually not something unusual but it doesn't match the claim to be very customer friendly.

The fact, that Ultimaker has stopped selling directly is understandable from an economical point of view and in a few regions it works well. In others it doesn't. At UM HQ they sometime simply don't seem to know the whole distribution chain to their users. While in a recent interview the CEO and the CTO tell they don't want their machines to be sold by boxmovers it seems as in quite some countries, including their home market, exactly this happens. I'm aware of FabLabs and schools, which belonged to the first Ultimaker customers, which are pissed off by the fact they now have to buy parts significantly more expensive from distributors and resellers (some of which are really not 'makers at heart') and have to use expensive hotlines to get support instead of the old UM support. Can you blame a company leaving their first customers in the lurch because of concentrating on more and higher paying customers of more recent products? No, you can't. It's economically the right thing if you have to choose. But it's betraying the origins of the company, isn't it?

At the moment Ultimaker may have the best in class machines (but also one of the most expensive) and sales might be excellent. However, more and more small companies use those machines and at some point they are disappointed because they expect at least semi professional constructions but it's not (even UM2+ are home machines, not pro machines). However, it seems at the moment UM wants to go further into that direction judging from recent marketing.

Within the next few years, the market for desktop 3D printers will change extremely. Pro machines will become cheaper (don't forget e.g. HP to enter the business) and the 'cheap' products get better every day. The air will become thin for Ultimaker.

[zumfab 3]

Ultimaker has stopped selling directly

Oh, wow. I totally missed this, but that is a rather big deal. From a business perspective, it is an understandable choice. Doing the footwork yourself eats up massive amounts of time. Leaving that to resellers means freeing up time and other resources for development and support. From the user perspective, however, it is probably not ideal.

I hope Ultimaker makes sure not to make the same mistakes Makerbot made.

 

Within the next few years, the market for desktop 3D printers will change extremely. Pro machines will become cheaper (don't forget e.g. HP to enter the business) and the 'cheap' products get better every day. The air will become thin for Ultimaker.

 

Don't forget it is the community that develops a lot of innovations. The standard printer is pretty good, but if you want to make it truly excellent, you are generally best off implementing a couple of improvements the community developed for certain problems.

[Titus 170]

I was recently thinking about how I'm using the forum nowadays. I can't even believe it has been this long!

I check a few times a day still, only I check if there is a reply in like 10 topics I'm following. I can't remember what I was following before, and the forum didn't remember either.

I used to check all unread topics. Read most of them, now I just check a few and read 1 or 2. I've also been missing a few of the frequent posters(or I miss their posts, which is also very likely) like Korneel, Olsson, Blizz, etc

I'm glad I'm printing something for valentine now, because I also rarely print something anymore. I have the idea that the forum was inspiring that more than it is now, or again I might be missing the inspiring topics. I do like the challenges for that reason though!!

Kind unfiltered post, lots of assumptions that might not be true. No constructive feedback, just feelings.

[LePaul 321]

Well I just registered a domain and am going to see about putting something together

[neotko 1,417]

The problem I see it's that the forum it's just a facebook support system, with very little to none interest on modding or hacking the stuff. At least that kind of posts are dead or with zero movement. Also there's zero interest from the administrators to set 'hot topics', to promote all topics that are full of knowledge that can only be found by google (and isn't a bash to the bad search system, it's a bash to the lack of highlights).

Please administrators/ultimaker. Get your crap togheter, get the hot topics, mark them, promote them, don't let them die on the page 9000 of the forum.

Basic stuff:

- Sticker posts, badly or almost never used.

- No 'hot posts' to promote others go in and get into the stuff (many like the fan/crossflow, different extrusion system, olsson block, marlin mods, etc)

Ultimaker, get on your own forum, and get the knowledge that it's here and documented it. And promote it.. So yes.. A better, like the one ultimaker had, forum.

Sorry but this forum atm it's just a hotline to help others.

[Labern 774]

It is a bit clumsy using the new forum. It has some nice features over the old one but just for general day to day use I find it a bit painful. I think the ideas section has turned into a bit of a waist, but this could has been used for people developing great new improvements.

I pretty much read most things on the forum and there is still some great stuff being posted. But there has been little to no replies on a lot of them. Like jonnybischof's head controller which would be great for tool changer over printers.

[yellowshark 153]

Hmn, some very interesting comments. I guess on most things I have a different  view:) .

I have been 3d printing for 2.5 years and have been on the forum for several months longer. Although I came really close I do not have a UM printer but I have found the forum very interesting ,  extremely helpful in my early months and yes I still learn things today.

1. The worst thing you could do right now is just go off and start a new forum without agreement/support from UM. You will fracture the forum making it worse, losing (presumably) UM on- forum support, presumably lose new users, who need your support, as they will be directed here by the UM website.

2. So what is wrong with the forum today in terms of bugs/navigation?  

I do not have any problems/issues with it that make me wince every time I sign on. I regularly access another 4 or 5 forums, nothing to do with 3D, they are all different, work on different platforms as far as I can see and I get along with all of them. I assume UM built the previous forum platform and if they did I am sure they had discussions on whether to redevelop or move to another platform. Whatever their reasons were, I think we should be thankful that they were prepared to make the investment to improve the platform – I cannot remember the old forum now but I am sure the new one must have some better things .



In my view UM released the new forum too early with too much important stuff not working well; if they did not realise that at the time I am sure they do now. I do not forgive them for that, although I will say, as someone who has spent a long time in software development, that beta testing a forum must be difficult. I am not saying it is impossible but by its very nature it cannot be easy. Of course you could argue that when the forum was released that was the start of Beta testing. Whatever, it was a bad mistake.

But is does seem to me that they have been working hard to rectify the situation.

3. So what is wrong with the forum today in terms of content?

Yes, it does seem to be full problem solving, more so than before. You guys are experienced and dare I say it, you are the type of people that should be generating the interesting topics, not the newbies – (and I am not saying that you have not, only that that is where they come from). Also industries go in cycles; I went to the TCT show in England last autumn and found it generally boring , i.e. not really anything new; the only thing that caught my eye was the number of fantastic, large multi coloured models being produced on the expensive professional printers.

4. I would not hold your breath waiting for HP. I spoke with them at the TCT show and they were very tight lipped. But with some leading questions and reading between the lines, I came away sure that their printer would not be priced anywhere near to something that I could afford and my printer was more expensive than the UM.

5. Yes the 3D printer world will change but its direction will not be open source and a couple of guys in a garage making kits. The market place is populated by people who are not technologists, not interested in circuit boards, not interested in pulling a machine apart to fix things. They want a printer which is the modern day equivalent of  a computer that they plug in, switch on and use. They want it to be self healing, reliable and capable of producing the right result first time and being able to repeat that result. All they want to do is make things.

Our part of the industry needs to mature a lot to do that – just as the PC world had to – and maybe that is the direction UM are going in. If it is I would not blame them.

At the end of the day we are the early entrants and there is a price to pay for that but eventually there will be followers, hordes of them when the product is right. Of course we will not want to be there when the most popular forum post is  “Hey have you seen the new camouflage paint job on the Synchomaker, oh I am such a girl should I choose that or the pink. Help please”.

[nilrog 103]

I thought Ultimaker was in the business of creating and selling 3D printers...not forum software? Why are they spending all this time, and money, on trying to reinvent the wheel (if it's true that this is their own creation)? And it's not even a good wheel? This is the first forum I have spent some time on that feels awkward a sluggish.

I just bought an UMO+ to play with and to try to improve bit by bit. But finding information here, for me as a newbie that has only lurked around for maybe half a year, is just a pita. I have more luck using Google to find information. And that's kind of sad.

[jameshs 42]

@yellowshark I guess if you did not really miss the old forum then the new forum is fine - but i used to check 3 or 4 times a day because there were amazing posts by people pushing the boundaries ....... that hardly happens now. I check once a day and I can't even find a "new since you last logged in", so I don't actually know if I see everything.

I have been invovled in two breakaways - one from Autodesk for a piece of software called Revit - the forum is more active today than it ever was, has no hierarchy and I contribute $10 a year to the server. It is not pretty but it works http://www.revitforum.org/ (50K members with 2.4K active) the other one was when my professional institute - that I pay serious ££ to decided it's membership would prefer an open forum on Linkedin! Again, we used a piece of software with less functionality but brought approx 200 users (more than had been active before) and the forum has active technical and friendly discussions - it is closed but here is the location http://architecture.boardhost.com/ and again I pay $10 contribution to server space.

So there are examples of users making independent fora and having  a good lifetime after the mothership has abandoned their user base!

There is the google group https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/ultimaker but that is not so active at the moment.

Happy to financially make a small contribution if needed.

James

Edited February 8, 2016 by Guest

[SandervG 1,521]

wow guys, come on.

I would be the last one to deny we didn't have a rough start but from day 1 we have been here online, collecting your feedback and including it in our developments.

We even went out to visit some of our community members in person to talk with them and make sure their feedback was collected. And we also wanted to make a statement, it was a gesture to show our good intentions and respect to you, our community. This offer still stands. Anyone who wants to talk about the community, forum or needs to get something else of their chest, please contact me and I would be happy to hear you out.

Even if it is just a feeling like; it feels clumsy or sluggish.

I would love to hear what you think causes this feeling so we can work towards improving it. A lot of energy goes into getting frustrated, angry and venting, but this energy can also be used to help build something, or be a stakeholder in the process.

@LePaul, what makes you think we don't take complaints seriously?

All feedback we have received was implemented, or was put on the agenda for a later date if it was too complex. There are only 2 things that remain open, which frustrate me as well, I am a user too. The ghost notifications that pop up and the search engine. Both have been proven to be more difficult to fix than a common bug, but it is still on our agenda. I understand, feeling annoyed doesn't have to be rational, so maybe there is no concrete example but I hope you at least want to try to put it in words to give us a chance to make things right.

Overall, the message is; if you want it to get better, talk to us. Going away will help nothing.

Moving forward, I'll take the suggestions of highlighting / sticker at heart and talk with my moderators to highlight interesting topics. @Neotko, would you be interested in helping?

We are also working on expanding our knowledgebase, which will be expanded with different topics like; 3D modelling - post processing - materials - maintenance etc.

This could be considered as the alternative for a wiki.

If anyone is interested in contributing to these pages, if you have the knowledge, let me know! We have a dedicated colleague on this project.

@LePaul, @Labern and @zumfab,

If you feel unheard, please let me know so I can help and we can do a better job.

Thank you guys, together we are the only ones who can make things better.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Guest

[SandervG 1,521]

Thanks @Labern for the tip.

Labern suggested I post a list of improvements we have made. That way you get some more insight in what is being done, and tells you the forum continuous to be an organic, growing and evolving platform.

We started doing this when the forum just went live but for some reason it disappeared from my radar.

Anyway, I'll update the list based on the last few updates we made so you have more insight in what we do.

• Ghost notifications: did some fixes to address ghost notifications. Like notifications in the bell dropdown menu are now set to read when you open the topic in a different way (e.g. from the forum overview). And inactive users (not approved yet by mods) don't generate notifications anymore
  
• Modified Ultimakers In the edit profile page a user can input extra info about his products. This info will show up in their profile. It also shows up in the user profile card next to a topic/reply when you click on the user's printers. @Dim3nsioneer, I believe this one was yours?
  
• Error messages. There's an error message now when you upload an image that's not a JPG, PNG or GIF
  
• Image deleted When a post has an imag that's been deleted by the user it now shows this message: "Image deleted by user". This is also the case for deleted prints.
  
• Email notification tweak Preview text is slightly darker grey, makes it easier to read. And when you receive a notification from a DM, the entire DM is shown in the email, instead of a preview text of a few words @IRobertI, let us know what you think.
  
• Picture orientation Pictures uploaded from phones should be oriented correctly now.
  
• Mark as read Mark as read / delete notification should work again on phones
  
• NotificationsTurning off notifications for new prints actually works now
  
• Drag and dropYou can now drag and drop the order of images in an uploaded 3D print
  
• Featured printsThe featured print is now the most liked print that's not older than 7 days. Before it was the most liked print that wasn't older than a month.
  
• Issues DM Issues that some users had with DM's should be resolved. If not, please let us know the details.
  
• Audio The audio bug should be fixed, as we no longer check with Javascript if the device supports audio.
  
• Profile pictures On some devices the user profile picture was shown in half behind an embedded print card. Should be fixed.
  
• PreviewThe reply/topic preview now opens in a popup in the same tab, instead of in a new tab.
  
• SubmenuThe community submenu bar now has an active state.
  
• Moderator functionality: in the mod screen you now see all of the categories and the topic title in a reply card. The topic title is clickable so a mod can check what the user is actually replying to.
  
• Blog reply notifications now actually go to the reply, instead of the top of the blog post.
  

This is the list of what we did last sprint, which was 2,5 weeks.

I'll copy this list to this thread and add the list of the last few sprints as well.

If you want your feedback to be included in the list of next sprint, let me know!

[IRobertI 520]

Just sticking my head in real quick as I was tagged regarding the e-mail tweak (3DVerkstan is moving to new offices so it's a bit busy right now).

It's better but if I can complain a bit I would prefer if new lines were preferred. It seems that to get rid of images or other "funky" stuff that wouldn't work in the e-mail the devs simply stripped out all tags and converted it to plain text. That means that you just get a block of text rather than paragraphs.

The colour is better but I can't quite understand the reluctance to just use plain old black for readability? Makes no sense to me.

I also noticed that now that I was tagged the e-mail I got had a truncated version of the post I was tagged in. Apply the same treatment to that notification as well, include the whole post (IMHO).

[SandervG 1,521]

Just sticking my head in real quick as I was tagged regarding the e-mail tweak (3DVerkstan is moving to new offices so it's a bit busy right now).

It's better but if I can complain a bit I would prefer if new lines were preferred. It seems that to get rid of images or other "funky" stuff that wouldn't work in the e-mail the devs simply stripped out all tags and converted it to plain text. That means that you just get a block of text rather than paragraphs.

The colour is better but I can't quite understand the reluctance to just use plain old black for readability? Makes no sense to me.

I also noticed that now that I was tagged the e-mail I got had a truncated version of the post I was tagged in. Apply the same treatment to that notification as well, include the whole post (IMHO).

Thanks. I'll share your feedback with our dev's so we can include it for the next sprint. I think it should fit the agenda. Otherwise I'll let you know it is scheduled for the next.

[jameshs 42]

@SanderVG

Have I missed the button that just lets me see messages since my last visit? - still can't find it anywhere.

So when I view a message - I click back in my browser and it does not show that I have read it - only if I reload the page, which then takes an age? ..... on every pc that I use (all chrome).

I think the observation is that an open source company has gone kind of closed source on it's community interface in order to reinforce the brand - even if the closed source solution that you have developed yourself is 'worse' - so a knowledgebase compared to a wiki is like facebook compared to a proper 'forum'.

I personally completely recognise that you have made a huge shift towards the 'facebook', '3d hubs', with badges, likes and daft post based epithets ....... I still have not worked out what a best reply is - and how can there be 5 of them in this thread - best, bester and bestest?

No denying that you have put considerable effort into the branded platform, and you may be getting grief from those of us who liked 'bulletin boards' and hate G+ - but that was a lot of the reason that I chose UM after a year of lurking in the forums, and the changes have completely broken that loyalty as the functionality of the forum dropped down to and/or below that of your competing vendors.

UM's reach now is so much bigger than it was (I am a UMO user) so I guess it is just an inevitable move from the tinkerers to the mass market and you possibly can't satisfy all your users :(

James

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @Jameshs,

There are a few ways a user can find the unread posts.

The bottom line is that you can recognize them by the blue bar on the left of the overview.

You can use this filter if you want to bundle them in one screen.

You could also use your default view, or rank them based on certain categories or time.

You can store the filter you prefer, so when you visit the forum from your computer it automatically will show you the filtered topics.

You can also customize your default overview (without a saved filter) by changing the order in which certain categories are presented to you and how many sub categories you'll see presented. You can list your favorite categories all the way up and you can even hide the ones you don't care about.

I also heard from Anders that he experienced the forum as slow. I have told him that I would share his (and yours) experience with our team of dev's and we can see how we can make it faster. Where are you based @Jameshs, if I may ask?

'Best replies' are replies which have received most likes. By clicking on it, you are being escorted to that like-able post.

I don't fully understand why you consider the forum as if we closed sourced ourselves from the community. Would you care to elaborate?

Do you mean because we write the knowledge base instead of it being moderated by the community?

I think it is a fact that we can not (no one can?) satisfy everyone, but our 'core users' as you are one of, are very important to us. And we will go to lengths to keep you happy.

So I am curious to hear what steps you felt broke that loyalty.

I don't think it is due to design, or even speed (as frustrating that may be).

It probably is a sum of more things, but if you want to share your impression with me perhaps we can grow closer towards each other.

Looking forward hearing from you!

[korneel 176]

so here's my 2 cents.. since my name got mentioned here..

let;s start off with this..

There are many aspects i absolutely don't like about the forum. It just feels weird and i see no reason why the wheel had to be reinvented. any of the points brought up so far why it was don't make sense to me and sound more like making sure people had something to do or warranting the way money was spent. so no I don't like this new forum.

so, that being said (don't worry Sander), I also realize it's time to start wearing the big boy pants. I think the feedback that a large portion of the community doesn;'t like the change (all change is good as long as everything stays the same right?) has been received and it's up to Ultimaker to do something with that or not. They are doing something with it as far as I can see.. it might not be in the way some people want to.. They seem to be improving\changing the existing software instead of switching to Vbulletin.. and if that;'s the choice i can only applaud them for sticking to their guns. If they would have switched to other forum software i'm sure a lot of people would have complained that they never finished what they started.

I've put on my big boy pants, and I just deal with the facts as they are. sometimes I post stuff, sometimes I get annoyed and I don't. It's that simple. there is no point in keeping to complain about the change, it's happened and it;'s clear it'll stay this way. good for you Ultimaker for sticking to your beliefs!

so just stop giving Sander and co such a bad time. in this case, Sander is mostly the messenger. He's trying his best and the intention was never to alienate the community or drive people away. there was a vision involved and it just hasn't come to fruition.

I think it;'s a pretty big step to start saying sales will be impacted because of this.. They have changed their business model and now it's different then before.

For me, this section of the forum has kinda turned into this:

people complaining and reminiscing about how everything was better in the olden days yet they keep coming back. It's some kind of a torture.. to have to watch the forum right?

so don't take this the wrong way.. but I think the time of complaining should just stop... Ultimaker won't change the software and complaining about it only brings a wave of negativity.

Sure, there are still decisions I don't like.. like the store going away.. but I make my point, Sander and co listen, they give their vision and view, and i might agree or disagree. then the subject is done and I move on..

lately, I've noticed that the complaining is more of a reason to not go here than the actual software is.. I just get a bad taste about it i suppose.

so that;'s the last I'll say about it. and for the other people that keep complaining.. i feel you guys.. but the time of complaining has to stop. If you don;'t want to come here anymore that's sad.. but I can live with that.. but to keep coming back and bringing back the same arguments just doesn't make this better.

[LePaul 321]

I know the software isn't going to change.

I respect the other points of view.

But when you see contributors voice frustration and opt to only stop in periodically...especially Mr Olsson Block himself...well...being here for 3 years, I have certainly noticed the engaging conversations drop down considerably.

You can paint me as any muppet you like

[korneel 176]

I know the software isn't going to change.

I respect the other points of view.

But when you see contributors voice frustration and opt to only stop in periodically...especially Mr Olsson Block himself...well...being here for 3 years, I have certainly noticed the engaging conversations drop down considerably.

You can paint me as any muppet you like  

 

and I think it's great you and others come back and voice what kind of improvements you would like to see.. I keep doing that and I would highly encourage other people to do that too..

but some people just drop in to say how much the new software sucks and they should use something else while we all know it's not going to happen.. that's the tiring portion to me..

and now i replied even though i said i wouldn't

I wasn't targeting specific users as being a muppet, it just feels that some people only check in at this point to see if stuff is on fire yet and add some extra fuel.

[LePaul 321]

Well I sent @SandervG an email with some ideas.

[SandervG 1,521]

It is much appreciated @LePaul and I have also already send you a reply. You're the best.

Thanks!!

[frederiekpascal 193]

vBulletin is a true hardcore-community forum software. That's correct imo.

I used to be community manager games of 9lives.be and I noticed they still use vbulletin as their forum software. (to manage their 110K users and 14 million posts, I got user 4 btw, 3 sys admins beat me that day )

But still, I like the fresh looks of this forum, the typography, the white space and the fresher look. Much better than most old-skool vBulletin boards.

True, vBulletin offers a lot more features functions out-of-the-box but how many people would actually use those geek functions anyway?

And the speed of the forum, it was very slow but it's ok now. At least in Belgium it is.

Not that important for the forum users, but so important for the sys admins of UM is that vBulletin requires a high frequency of updates otherwise you'll be hacked within days.