general forum feedback

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Thank you for the feedback.

Currently my colleague who I would prefer to discuss this with is out of the office this week. I would happily discuss this iteration when he is back.

I personally prefer to add 1 line of what the last reply is about per topic.

What do you think?

I would prefer a multiline, with the current stuff on the left (minus all the avatars) and a few lines with latest activity on the right next to it. Please ONE overview page to see where all the latest activity is.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

@sander Currently my colleague who I would prefer to discuss this with is out of the office this week. I would happily discuss this iteration when he is back.

After months of preparation (at least the "new forum discussion" is that old) you go live without testing, have 1 developer not doing overtime and another person you need to be able to take decisions unavailable ??? funny company .. funny planning ..

Can you please share the action list so we at least have an idea what are the changes we'll be getting ?

[SandervG 1,521]

Even though working at Ultimaker is so much fun, we do need a holiday too sometimes. And with all the events we go to, my colleague had to schedule his holiday right after the launch of the community platform. (And I will be going a little bit later..) Some decisions I can make today, but as we have been working on this platform as a team, for some decisions I feel more comfortable to talk them over with my colleagues. To ensure we are always on the same page.

Actually the same thing goes for the developer-team.. we had a big team working on the platform, but for the time being they also have people away on holidays and we are all working with lower occupation.

I will share the list with you all later this week.

[SandervG 1,521]

(funny that even though you did not fully tag me, -you used sander instead of sandervG-, I still received a notification that I was tagged.)

[shurik 87]

Even though working at Ultimaker is so much fun, we do need a holiday too sometimes.

We all do.

However, when our company has a live productions, it is not uncommon for the teams to sleep at the office for few days.

Noone is very happy about that, but smooth production is above all.

Here it's just a bloody forum engine!

[ultiarjan 1,223]

(funny that even though you did not fully tag me, -you used sander instead of sandervG-, I still received a notification that I was tagged.)

Must be magic machines that know what we want? Maybe the machine just has to learn a little more

[chipsample 9]

First Sander was gone a week, now someone he wants to discuss this with is gone a week...we've already lost almost 15 days of continuity, images are gone, can't find valuable conversational threads in troubleshooting forums.

Who ever sold UMHQ this bill of goods gets the baloney award of the decade.

Then there is the matter of chat being destroyed and all those instant help resources.

Sander, if you don't realize it, let me fill you in.  New habits are formed in as little as 3 weeks.  Some of us won't trust this site again for love nor money.  And it's YOUR money that is gone, as well as a chunk of us.

When you deliberately erase chunks of time SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU CAN, it devalues people and makes them less willing to post anything in the future, even remotely helpful.

Just exactly what did you get in return for this in the way of "improvement?"

SQUAT, that's what you got. And what's happening here is WORSE lower in value than even squat!

[kolia 31]

"Never release before leaving for holidays" is the new "Never release on a Friday afternoon" (any sysadmin KNOWS that )

Try to see the good side, with a few fixes it will improve drastically so it won't be long before it's usable again (IRobertI greasemonkey script is already a good start by the way). @chipsample you are right that new habits are formed very quick... but people forget and forgive very quickly too, as soon as they get what they want! That's much less harmful than a quality problem on the machines for example.

I'm always amazed by UM staff sincerity and honesty. I don't think I've ever seen such openess in any company and this is something to cherish. And I think they care about the feedback, and that now Sander is in a very uncomfortable position because they gather the feedback but are short of labour force to implement it. That's not ignoring the users.

Now, is it good to run a company like a FabLab, only future will say!

If I had to order priorities of fix I would say:

1. Spam problem

2. Remember me problem

3. Decreasing white spaces (like IRobertI script is doing)

4. Notifications of reply redirecting to last unread post

5. Overview page with read/unread status of all the sub-forums

Nothing long to fix, except 5. maybe (as long as you have someone around to do it and/or make decision)

Go go go UM \o/

[TheGuyKnownAsDim3nsioneer 11]

Well, it would be tempting to say if many people are on holiday then it's the wrong time to switch systems when the old one still works fine. But it happened to me in the past that IT people just told me what I wanted to hear when I asked them about possible problems of e.g. a release change.

[Daid 306]

it's interesting when even the UM people start replying with things like "the person that designed this should be shot"

I'm just happy i'mm not the only unhappy cookie

Public communication simply has higher impact. I'll most likely get called in by management for posting that (would not be the first time)

Reasons for making a post like that:

1) Nobody in is right minds makes a 100% custom forum. See the amount of bugs and lack of features? That's why. It's a waste of money really.

2) You have one of the top users of the forums sitting in your office, and you don't even talk to him about your forum change plans. Cura is pretty much born on the forums. I've pretty much lived on forums for a big part of my life. This is not a forum, this is a forums retarded little brother.

3) Communications from R&D to the people who handle communications have been pretty much ignored or misinterpreted. Even when told in the face and emailed.

4) There has been a Cura PinkUnicorn limited beta planned to release on monday. I have NO clue on how we're going to get feedback on that. Normally we handled testing with a hidden subforum.

5) The layout is horrible for information density.

6) Essential features are missing.

7) Bugs everywhere.

8) It's not a "people resist change" issue. Yes, people resist change. I know all about that (see removal of slice button). It's a "we had something that was quite decent, and it's being replaced by something that can only be properly described as a piece of total shit."

9) I'm fed up with this shit.

10) Do not taunt the happy fun rock.

Now, most likely I will get some silly promise that they will fix the bugs. Fix the layout. Add the features. But, I'm a software developer. I will tell you it will take a year to get this really sorted out.

So I say: Close this shit. Put in normal forum software which we all know that works. Any effort put in here is a waste of money and effort. Effort and money that could be put into other areas.

I also ask you all. Do not hold back, do not bite your lip. Tell what you really think! Remember that the forum is there for you, you are not there for the forum.

[ultiarjan 1,223]

Ok then, I think we're in this shit because a bunch of amateurs who insist on implementing gamification, points and badges, which we really DO NOT NEED, broke up the core functionality we do need.

The most frustrating is that many on this forum expressed themselves against this gamification nonsense, but it happens anyhow. Even though its principally wrong. F.e. people with a question, who know little about the subject of there question, are asked to judge the quality of the answer  I've even already seen GR5 telling a person which answer he needs to flag as best answer.... Also people will be inclined to rate an answer shortly after they post a question, while a much better answer can be posted a day later .. or a week later .. or maybe never with this current forum ..

Edited April 29, 2015 by Guest

[Daid 306]

And so it starts. Just go an email from high up asking me not to reply on the forum anymore.

I'm not backing down. I think you guys are too important for this.

I'll keep you updated.

[ahoeben 1,948]

Hi @daid. Just a quick note of support and thanks for speaking out from a mostly-lurker. And a note of concern: Ultimaker without @daid would be the worst possible outcome. Think happy unicorns!

[Titus 170]

@Daid don't put yourself on the line. Your work at Ultimaker/Cura is more important than having a good or a bad forum.

As you suggested, speaking my mind a bit more. Note that this is not per see how I see things, but how it could seem, given the lack of insight into how it actually went.

I believe somewhere some people had a vision they could market the UM2 family better if there was an environment where people who are not technical at all could get easy help with a nice knowledge base of questions.

This is not bad, but I have the feeling it was rushed under pressure of a release date. Also it feels like they assumed the people that form the current community, those that are needed to help build the envisioned environment, would accept everything and keep doing the same, perhaps even more due gamification, while a lot of them said they didn't really like it.

Last, it seems they outsourced the building of the forum, and that a promising bid for the job was believed and accepted without actually knowing how insanely difficult it is to build a good forum. Kinda like a situation where I saw a company win a bid because they would charge 150 euro to build a seriously complex website. The closest competitor was like 600 euro plus. They got the bid, delivered shit work, got more time and more money to fix their shit work, and ended up being more expensive, and probably more shit too.

[TheGuyKnownAsAndersOlsson 13]

I finally had to give up my attempts to reset the password and do as Dim3nsioner :-)

I would strongly suggest Ultimaker, as many of the other heavy users here does, to step back a few steps and reopen the old forum.

Then you should set up some proper internal meetings, possibly hire an expert to sort out internal conflicts and help focusing Ultimaker on future goals.

The person who designed this forum, and the person who took the decision to put it online should be moved to other positions in Ultimaker in my opinion.

I can not recall that I have seen anything as badly handled as this in my rather extensive history on various forums the past 15 years.

When I recommend people to buy and Ultimaker my two main points are that it is common and that it has a great user community. I do not point at it's great printing quality anymore as the competitors has caught up or are even ahead.

I think Ultimaker are not even close to realizing the value of the community and all the information in the old threads and how volatile this might be.

Lots of nice and clever people spend an awful lot of time here for free just to help others, which creates a nice experience around Ultimaker.

Most 3D-printer manufacturers could only dream of having this kind of community and Ultimaker for sure is playing with fire right now.

I am probably moving on if the forum does not get back to something like it was before.

There is a demand for good discussion 3d-printing discussion boards and I am sure someone will step in unless Ultimaker does something drastic.

So please Ultimaker, step back a few steps, get back the old forum, take your time sorting out internal conflicts and strategy, then take your summer vacation and postpone any updated forums until autumn!

[Titus 170]

@TheGuyKnownAsAndersOlsson Wow, I don't get why some people can get a password and others don't...

 

I am probably moving on if the forum does not get back to something like it was before.

 

This is something that I believe quite a few important members of the community think but haven't said yet. I feel the same :(

Don't lose us Ultimaker, as we don't want to lose you!

[xeno 108]

Please Ultimaker get your SHIT TOGETHER !!

and let us know there is actually being something done about the current SPAM problem.

it's 12:46 and still it's SPAM heaven :(

Edited April 29, 2015 by Guest

[foehnsturm 969]

Well, to me the spam issue is the acid test. If UM cannot fix this within almost a week they won't fix anything else in reasonable time.

Either the entire staff is on holidays or developers are hopelessly overtaken or the software is so badly designed that it takes ages to implement a fix. Either way this thing would be a stillbirth.

[swordriff 119]

 

@TheGuyKnownAsAndersOlsson: Mensch, ärgere dich nicht, verwundere dich bloss.

[SandervG 1,521]

The log in problem should be fixed, in approx 1 or 2 hours.

Same goes for the spam filter.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Guest

[Daid 306]

@Daid don't put yourself on the line. Your work at Ultimaker/Cura is more important than having a good or a bad forum.

My work is meaningless without you guys. Cura was born on the forums. And while lately I've been very busy which gave me little time to check the forums. I do see the forums as very dearly to me. I've always said that I will take a stand for the people, the community. We build something together.

I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks for the support. I stirred things up quite a bit (mission accomplish there ). Naturally everyone is already busy with other stuff. It's not like everyone can drop what they are doing.

[Titus 170]

My work is meaningless without you guys. Cura was born on the forums. And while lately I've been very busy which gave me little time to check the forums. I do see the forums as very dearly to me. I've always said that I will take a stand for the people, the community. We build something together.

 

www.cura.nl is still up for grabs, could make us a little forum there

Edit, actually it is, nevermind

Edited April 29, 2015 by Guest

[foehnsturm 969]

What about ditching the "Like" feature at least for topics?

Select --- most liked --- most viewed --- most commented

What for, besides personal vanity?

Utterly nonsense! That's not youtube here.

You may like a print or an answer (but this would be covered by "best answer"). Too much social media shit ...

[TheGuyKnownAsAndersOlsson 13]

Talking about Youtube, my channels views-count from embedded players on ultimaker.com might give you some idea of how much value was lost when all old threads were corrupted:

EDIT: Updated with a more recent picture

At least posting photos and editing posts works

Edited April 29, 2015 by Guest

[ultiarjan 1,223]

I would love to see your stats but i can't zoom in anymore on this forum ....