Artiz
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Posts posted by Artiz
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The print is moving along nicely and about halfway through... my first 2 attempts became unattached to the build plate which was set at 70C as recommended. I used a urethane matt varnish/sealer on the plate both times but increased the spray for the second attempt... to no avail.
This (3rd) time I waited until the raft had been printed and the first layer of the print itself was evident before pausing and applying a very strong urethane bonding glue all around the edge of the raft which you can see below... after drying this tactic finally stopped the edges warping which in turn previously led to the entire raft becoming detached.
I've got to say that I am so far extremely impressed that someone has actually been able to combine Nylon and Carbon into a single printable filament... it really is quite extraordinary... both in looks and strength wise... together with its improving 'workability' this may indeed just be what people like to call a 'game changer'... the strength and durability of this printed speargun handle is looking easily equal to any of it's commercially available counterparts... and for me personally 10 x better of course cos I designed it.
I look forward to the completion of this half (fingers crossed) and will of course post up a picture of the finished print when done.
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Funny, I just started testing this today as well!
Most of your observations are pretty much same as mine with the exception of the temperature and flow. Mine is flowing perfectly fine at normal 100% 240C-250C. I've been able to print my knife handle with good layer bonding and like you said, pretty much indestructible stuff and really awesome finish. Similar to Colorfabb's CF, but less matte. I printed at 90 microns and it was smooth with almost no visible layer lines. The bottom layer looked like a carbon weave since it was smooth (from the glass) and weave like due to the parallel lines of the first layer.
I had similar warping issues, I tested printing on bare glass from 20C, 60C, 100C with only minor success. (major warping each time). I tried gluestick with not much more success.
Will try hairspray and other tactics soon as well.
Good to see other people testing as well :DI also have the glass fiber and wood from them so I'll test those too.
Cool thanks for the feedback... nice to know I'm not alone.
I can only manage to get it to stick at all with the Flow cranked up so can I ask what nozzle/hotend you are using... and feeder etc...
The 70C that Fiber Force recommends seems to be the optimum for my set up but I still have to use a lot of my urethane spray and then also urethane bond to keep the whole thing in place... but once it gets going it seems to print very well... I went for .15 microns which does leave a little to be desired but still looks and feels absolutely amazing.
My current 25 hr print is now coming along very nicely with good layer adhesion as well as the beginnings of a reasonable outer finish... I will still need to sand it down a little and then seal it for bonding the other half of the handle assembly together... so another 25-30 hour print to follow this one before I can really see the results...
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mark forged prints very very strong. They have a good process. But it's limited in 2 directions. Still it's pretty amazing. That's a very specialized printer.
I bought one of those Markone's as my first printer... totally useless and so specialised that it could only print the carbon filament if your model was longer than about 6" and even then the software would not tell you if it was or was not going to print the carbon... sometimes it would/sometimes it wouldn't... hopeless printer of the worst kind because of how hyped it was... and of course how beautiful looking it is... now add to that it's hefty price & proprietary filaments and you have yourself a 'fool's printer' to match no other... luckily enough I got mine back to the seller before my 14 days grace was up... exchanged it for a UM2 and never looked back... no owner will ever tell you how useless they are either as they would just end up looking like the mug that they truly are after spending more than £5000 on a brick.
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you might want to give this filament a look/see.... NylForce Carbon Fiber... I'm testing it out now... the strength is remarkable... but printing with it is not for the faint hearted...
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I'd be tempted to try a test print in the oven for a while (annealing)... or even perhaps one of those cheap pressure/all weather lighters to see if melting off the strings works better... but doesn't spoil the look of the print of course.
muck luck...
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I've just received some Nylforce Carbon Fiber from iMakr. It's made by Fiber Force in Italy.
Fabbaloo did a quick write up here... but as yet not that much information to be found... hence the new thread.
I've been using the XT-CF20 with a lot of success in designing and printing out speargun parts for the last year or so but when I caught wind of a Nylon/Carbon mix I was very interested... and mainly due to the added strength potential of such a mix.
It took a while to finally get a 500 gram reel which cost £39 + £6.50 delivery from iMakr...
First impressions on opening were that the filament looked a little thin... which it is but only slightly... the UM2 standard feed doesn't cope with it particularly well as the filament is extremely hard... you do need to be aware that if it doesn't seem to be feeding properly then you will need to give it a manual push past the more often than not initial grinding of the filament.
I started off with Fiber Forces recommended settings for the UM2: --Extruder temp. 255°C --Flow 120% --speed 40 mm/s --bed temp. 70°C + strong fixing hairspray (+ gcode with raft) --cooling fan 80%
After a few test prints and messing around I'm now up to 260C with a material flow for the initial raft at 1000% so that it actually comes out of the nozzle... I have an Olsson block with a SS nozzle (0.4). Speed is also right down to 20mm/s. I reduce the material flow once the part begins to print down to 500% and then slowly down to around 200%... but haven't gone below that mark yet...
As with other Carbon mixes the real problem is to get it to stick to the build plate... I'm using a urethane spray varnish which works OK but as my particularly large print progresses the whole thing just continually comes away from the build plate. I have now resorted to printing out the raft and then when the actual print itself starts I pause and bond (urethane glue) down the edges of the raft to stop it from contracting/shrinking and disengaging itself from the build plate completely... which has happened twice now.
This is most definitely the most difficult filament I have ever used to get a print started but also the first time I have tried nylon so I obviously have a lot of catching up to do.
What is very encouraging is the strength of the failed prints... unbelievably strong material when it has actually printed.. layer adhesion was spot on with one of my failed prints and not so good with the other one so results still a little mixed yet.
So far certainly not an easy filament to work with but still encouraging enough to stick at it... I am going big with this print though so smaller prints should be much easier than my marathon efforts here. However if I can actually get this filament to print out an entire handle assembly it will not only be quite some achievement in itself... but the real prize would be the finish... the finished prints really do look quite spectacular and initial results regarding strength have the potential for something very special indeed... here's hoping!
As I progress I will continue to add updates...
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Yes I have printed with them a lot.
They are not the most easy to print with but the end result is very nice.
As to strength, the are stiffer and more stable but not necessarily stronger and can actually be weaker.
You need to use a wear resistant nozzle like hardened steel.
I recommend that you read This topic as it has a lot of information that will be of help.
Maybe stronger using a nylon/carbon mix though... I've just ordered some Nylforce Carbon Fiber. It's made by Fiber Force in Italy.
I certainly can't find any user information on it though... other than a bloke in Poland who seems to thinks its very difficult to print with...
I would have to say that I'm pretty impressed with this strength/stress test though...
As soon as I have done a few prints I'll start a thread
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Been playing around a bit with Colorfabb HT clear, trying to get it as clear as possible. This is the latest print I made and I'm pretty happy with this one. As an extra experiment I also tried "suspending" something inside the print, sort of like those 3d laser etched crystal things you can get.
Post processed by wet sanding (240-320->600->1200), followed by polishing paste, followed by a polishing wheel. I tried some clear coat in a rattle can as well but I think I suck too much with one of those, I got better surface clarity with elbow grease
I also had to baby sit the print and pause it a few times to clean off the nozzle. HT loves sticking to the nozzle, burn into black goo and then drop into the print.
Superb print... well done!
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I cant say im too excited about the pcb board holder... but i was entertained by the guys enthusiasm and squeaky voice lol
hehe... but wouldn't you be a bit excited getting all those lovely presents in the post... couldn't work out why though...?
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I think we have reached the point where manufacturers will now continue to flood the market with as many new filaments as they can... with their main aim being market domination rather than giving a 'hoot' about us... I'd go as far to say that it's now very definitely down to us to give each other detailed function vs form type feedback on this forum regarding all the different filaments. A standardized reporting format and section for each manufacturer and each new filament might be a good idea rather than multiple threads all asking the same questions? You can now also count on the manufacturers holding back on certain developments so that they can sell out the products they have already made... shame... but was always going to happen.
Good question by the way Dim3nsioneer!
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Hi Jay-Cee... thanks for reply... I believe replies/comments to threads are automatically sent/opted in so probably something else went wrong somewhere... safe to assume your UM2 is doing fine then... mines printing like a champ now.
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Hi Artiz;
I got it printing PEEK enough to complete my masters.
Here's a link to the system development:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5czN7u52TZnZEhUN0x4NWFtams
and here's a link to the whole masters:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5czN7u52TZnWE1vRlBPSFEwWGM
The conclusion lists issues, future works etc.
Thanks to everyone who gave me help and advice here
I also helped set up a Rapid Prototyping lab with 5 UM2s during my final year for students to use freely; was a great success, good little printers!
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Massive congrats getting your Masters Mike... thoroughly deserved too from the obvious amount of work you put into this project.
Big thanks for publishing your results here too... I've downloaded both for future reference. Not too sure I'll be able to crack it on my own but will definitely look at giving it a bash... particularly with the use of your detailed and thoroughly brilliant research posted up here for us all to study and use.
So the answer is yes... with modifications you can indeed print PEEK with an Ultimaker 2
Outstanding thread Mike... respect & regards...
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Will you coat the printed parts with anything? I have found that the carbon fibers absorb water.
After a couple of dives with the gun I noticed that my cellulose primer was wearing off and starting to go white in some of the main wear areas... only slightly but clearly detaching from the sanded print surface... cellulose or spirit based products don't appear to last or stick particularly well to the printed XT-CF20 material... although that is after being submerged in the sea for extended periods I should add.
This polyurethane product is to date a far superior coating as well as a glass finish to the buildplate side/bottom of the print... better still you don't actually need to sand these highly accurate surfaces down either if you are joining two of your parts together using the polyurethane bond (above) which in turn makes your joints virtually invisible.
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very nice and shiny! What did you use to polish it? I hear so many different method's.
And how did you have the rest oxidate so fast?
I tried to put some bronze pieces in a sour-like cleaning liquid for a couple of hours and 2 days later it was very green. Almost turquoise.
I started off with wire wool which was OK but not as good as 600 grit emery cloth... once my print lines started disappearing it began to shine with the help of a little bit of cheap general purpose metal cleaner. When my arm stops aching I'll finish it off with Brasso.
I used a green ageing solution (patina) from Modern Masters (small bottle is about £5) which only takes a few hours and a couple of coats with a small brush.
I tried a few home solutions... lemon juice, vinegar, salt etc which just took too long and irritated me.
...Thanks Les
...it is a remarkable printing filament... the bust is almost as heavy as the real thing and once you've got a shine going you can just keep on polishing it as if its a real bronze... on reflection I suppose it is really
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Could probably do with a bit more polishing but my arm's gone numb.
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Anyone else seen/tried this....
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Well 100% for a thin bracket piece versus what you are printing....two very different situations.
I am just hoping I can get the bridging to work a bit better with those settings.
I recently got a new large reel of XT-CF20 and had to build a DIY reel holder which really improved the way my UM2 extended printed this material in particular... and especially the way the material flowed... my conclusion being that even the slightest friction on the reel was having an effect... try checking yours LePaul... just in case.
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this stuff for clamping parts together accurately/precisely...
and this mad stuff...
seems to work like an acid melting the plastic... strange thing is that it evaporates after a few seconds when you spill it... certainly seems to work instantaneously though.
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Note the change to flow.
The piece I showed him with a bracket piece for the UMO Shroud, thus why he advised 100% infill.
Are you sure this is not just a plot to get you to buy more filament
tis probably true... when I tried 100% it was far too much and I had to keep pausing the print to get rid of all the access... at 75% infill its pretty much solid anyway.
I do think an increased infill helps though...
When you back off on the flow it tends to produce tails and minute holes which then just seems to get worse... if you leave it you then start to get poor overall layer adhesion.
Its definitely a fine tuned balancing game you have to play with this material but if you get it right the end print can be superb... and I don't mean straight off the build plate... I have never had that... I mean after sanding down etc.
This material is definitely not everyone's 'cup of tea' but it is the best so far for making a strong, durable, rigid working part and a speargun really is pushing the limits of current consumer 3D printing... I for one am very impressed so far.
(apologies for poor quality phone photos)
The accuracy of the print for me is essential... to be able to fit the trigger mechanism perfectly is a revelation (above)... its around 0.2 of a mm accurate. That goes for the 25mm bore carbon barrel too which just slides straight onto the handle assembly which I sized at 24.6mm in my CAD model... nothing else I've tried even comes close to the print accuracy of XT-CF20.
Lastly... I think printing at finer layer heights such as .1, .08 and even .06 offer the best results from this material... it then takes very little sanding down to completely remove all printing lines from your model which in turn produces a finish which is both smooth and incredibly accurate.
If you are looking for fine surface detail for your Gnomes, Wizards and monster aliens straight off the build plate and within the hour then this is definitely not the right filament for you
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Since you are within reach of ebay UK, give UHU stic a go before spraying muck all over your build plate. Works a charm for me, for all my current filaments (PLA, ABS, Nylon, PETG). Spread it with the plate at around 50C, and print PETG at 75C.
Thanks for the tip danilius... at risk of sounding obsessive... which I probably am... the idea behind using 'muck' as you call it enables me to retain consistency regarding my finish. I have to coat/seal/varnish my prints due to the bashing and adverse conditions that a speargun necessarily/normally endures. With my mirrored parts the build plate surface of both sides is also essential for bonding them both together too.... Cleaning off is easy enough...
All together the hope is that it makes for a 'proper' working part at last...
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I bought some PETG from amazon UK, 3D Prima brand. It has a glass-like appearance once printed (if you use really fat layers). It is as easy to print as PLA, although at higher temps. I tend to print 0.2mm layers at 30mm/sec for the outers, 45mm.sec for inners and infill at 255C and the bed at 75C, no enclosure required either (although to be honest I don't use one with ABS either). I use UHU stic on glass, works just fine for me.
It does not warp like ABS, it does not smell very much, less than PLA. It's greatest strength is its.....strength. Crazy strong compared to PLA and ABS. You can really brutalise the stuff. It is more springy than ABS, and springs will work quite nicely when the same thing will break in ABS or PLA. All in all, it is my go-to filament now.
I did have some strange result when destruction testing some prints. 5 pieces went through 200+ degrees bends several times before I could tear the pieces away. 2 shattered, but did not delaminate.
I tried to capture the gem-like appearance of this material unsuccessfully. The springs are really strong and I was unable to pull them too far out because the sharp edges of the part were digging into my fingers too much, which should give you a very good idea of the strength of this material. I bet the springs 90 degrees up and down and they still work.
I think this stuff is manufactured by the dwarves of the mines Khazad-dûm with Mithril being one of the key components, but that might just be an urban legend.
After doing a bit more reading regarding PETG I now realise that Colorfabb's XT range is actually PETG too. Eastman's Amphora is a trade name for its own copolyester composition... which they recently sold to DuPont by the way... more info here.
The term copolyester doesn't actually mean much... its just a term used to describe a chemical or manufacturing process... like polymer etc.
However... it does mean that using cellulose as a sealer (which I have been doing) is probably not going to give the best results because it's clearly a very different chemical composition... whereas polyurethane is very much closer and in many compositions actually contains types of copolyester.
The upshot is I am now about to try out a polyurethane sealer/varnish for the build plate as well as sealing my parts post print... and also a polyurethane bonding agent when bonding my parts together... I'll let you know how I get on...
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Here's one of the failed prints, a carabiner:
Hey Mike...
Thanks for your thread... very interesting and bang up to date... are you just keeping us on 'tenterhooks' or have you been so successful that you haven't got time for forums any more
Would love to hear a progress report... I'm particularly interested in 3DXTECH'S carbon/PEEK blend so future UM2 hotend 'pimping' is a distinct possibility for me too... can you list/link your parts by any chance... and am I asking too much regards some photos of your upgraded UM2 please.
much luck and regards
(thanks to everyone else with your posts here too)
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First field trial of my printed speargun... the butt broke off at the end of the trial... due to a very basic design error though... now sorted - but a bit more printing to do of course.
I'm now printing at 0.8 with a 70% infill which leaves very small air pockets for buoyancy but also gives me the overall strength required for this type of utilitarian/component style printing... and I can even screw small screws into it with good retention.
I wish someone could do something about that 'support' fiasco though... all my print failures are usually down to problems with 'support'... if I choose 'grid' its a nightmare post print and if I choose lines they usually fail to print correctly unless I've got the speed so low it takes a week to print? Having said that I am also beginning to get consistently good/excellent prints with this material.
Bit more info:
Olsson block
0.4 SS nozzle
260C
LH 0.08
Shell 4mm
RTrction - yes/no/maybe! (Deffo not on multiple component prints)
B/T 3mm
Fill - 70%
40mm/s
Everywhere
Brim
I use an expensive cellulose spray sealer on the buildplate because I also spray my parts with it post-print... works every time...
I start at 50% speed with the buildplate up at 90C until 4 or 5 layers are down - adjusting to 70C after first 30 mins... helps to keep it stuck down but make sure you do not leave it at 90C cos it will 'fry' your print. I also start with 120% material flow which decreases/increases with my speed once I've got the support printing correctly... I also need to monitor all this for the first 2-3 hours after which I can bring it all up to full speed and leave it alone... although I usually have to continually check back for build ups etc. If the blobs get too big I pause and cut them off with a sharp blade... I also sand them flat if necessary.
PS. After having problems with printing the support on my running print I turned retraction off and its now printing the support structure just fine.... retraction on or off?... whatever suits the individual print by the looks of it?
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Well my first test went quite well. Despite a problem with the print leaning slightly, the resulting print came out very nice. I tried 240C but it wouldn't stick to the heated bed. 250 it was trying...256 was the magic number for me.
Resolution 0.2
Temp 256C
Bed temp 70C
Fans off
Retractions on
Using Anders Olsson's prototype nozzle (ruby)
Fill density 20%
Nice print/video!
Is there a filament strong enough to work for high torque gears?
in Materials & profiles
Posted · Edited by Guest
Taulman Alloy 910 seems a good option...