hoegge
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3D Prints
Posts posted by hoegge
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1 hour ago, ahoeben said:
@hoegge and @kmanstudios, what GPU do you have? We got some similar reports on github this weekend, and I noticed that both of those reported an AMD GPU. There could be a specific issue between how Cura does things and AMD drivers. I'm just trying to get to the root of the issue.
I have NVIDIA Quadro K1000M
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2 hours ago, ahoeben said:
Interesting. It should be faster, because backface culling was enabled (less work for the GPU)
The slow rendering is not a GPU problem. In all other programs the same or more advanced graphics can be rendered without any slow downs. Actually, there should be no work for the CPU as soon as the model has been loaded by the GPU after which all affine transformations and drawing is done by that. Are you processing the data in Python for every frame - then it’s not so strange it is super slow.
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7 hours ago, kmanstudios said:
Thank you for clarifying as your original post was confusing as to what you meant because I rotate with no issues, but have noticed the orbiting is a bit odd. That is why I wanted to make sure we were comparing apples to apples.
No problem - thanks for asking. But think it is pretty clear, that the functionality is a bit “broken” when enabling zoom to pointer. Would be nice to have it work like normal 3D CAD programs do.
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I am talking about changing view - orbiting. Examining the build plate by moving my point of view. Not rotation of the object relatively to the plate.
The orbiting does not spine the scene around the center of the build plate, that is pretty obvious. When zoomed out it spins around the center of the build volume not the plate. When zoomed in it orbits around some points behind the build volume.
Zoom in towards a point seems to work fine, although the steps become way to big the closer you get
Zoom out does not work like other programs. Behaves oppositely to what you would expect. Moves away from the area where the mouse pointer is instead of towards. Probably because it is the opposite of zooming in, but it should not be.
The crazy orbit only happens when the "zoom towards mouse pointer" is turned on in the preferences.
Would be more useful if the center of zoom and orbiting was the point you put your mouse pointer on when starting the motion
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@gr5 It for sure does not rotate around the center of the bed - nor does it zoom towards the center of the bed. It zooms to and rotates around the center of the build volume - i.e. a lot above the parts you want to print. When you have zoomed in the rotation is around some point somewhere behind the build volume and becomes "erratic" since the build volume then flies out of the view port. It really needs an overhaul.
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19 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:
You are looking for an explanation. I just pointed to an example of how tweaking a simple number can change its affect. If a visual example is not helpful to you at all, then my apologies.
No need for apologies, thanks for trying to help. I was looking for an accurate definition of what the number is, not so much what tweaking it does. Thanks.
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2 minutes ago, Dim3nsioneer said:
As I understand, the larger the curvature on an object, the thinner the selected layer height gets with adaptive layer height.
Then I would expect the green part at the side openings of the 3DBenchy in the following picture to go up a bit further, no? Or is that some bridging feature?
The term "curvature" is not well-defined, so that is not the case. A large curvature could be a large radius. What you want is to have thinner layers when you have a surface with is very close to but not horizontal. That is it has a small angle (compared to horizontal). To get that defined you need thinner layers. You can see you get blue areas (thin layers) when you have features with near-horizontal angles. On the lower part of the benchy it is the top surface of the hull that induce thin layers then at the upper part of the door it is green because we only have the "vertical" part of the house there and then it becomes blue again when we approach the near horizontal part of the door opening and so on.
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Does not help much, since there is no explanation there
1 hour ago, kmanstudios said:Explanation and implementation can be difficult. See this thread to see if it helps. The last messages are about playing with the numbers. Sometimes, ya just gotta fiddle around a bit.
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22 minutes ago, Torgeir said:
Hi hoegge,
You'll need to use the "windows mouse standard"; push wheel button, then you can move the whole model up and down to fit your view.
Thanks
Torgeir
Seriously - you're not serious? I know how it works - it does not work very well. That's the point. When you rotate after having zoomed in things fly off the screen. Also the zoom function has very large steps the closer you get to the object.
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Concerning:
5 hours ago, ctbeke said:Cool
Yeah, this is why I left the somehow hard to explain threshold parameter in there, the results are very different per geometry.
According the source code, the threshold is an angle? Or at least use the function: "getSettingInAngleDegrees" - so maybe it is a slope where you use it as an angle. Is that because it is entered as a slope but you need an angle? Wouldn't angle be easier to understand? You write: "If a layer section contains steeper angles on the outer wall, the layers will be thinner. " A steeper angle on a 3D print would be closer to vertical - but I guess you mean lower angle - closer to horizontal? So that in itself is confusing.From the source it seems like you take the tangent (tan()) of the triangle normal vector slope - hence the 90 degrees confusion - vertical becomes horizontal and so on.
So a bit more clarity about the parameters - are they angles or slopes. Slopes of what exactly and how is it used to determine the angle. Should be easy to explain if you know what you're doing ;-) - which I'm sure you do.
A simple angle would be much easier to understand, stating the angle (from horizontal) below which the layers should start decreasing in size, so the set layer thickness is only decreased and never increased.
Thanks for adding the feature - it is a great enhancement and will ultimately be very useful - and the performance of the algorithm in terms of deciding how to change layer height seems very good.
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When you zoom in on something rotation becomes useless. E.g. see video below. When you rotate zoomed in the things fly out of the window. Please zoom, rotate and pan like any other CAD program - use e.g. Fusion 360 as an example. It should not act weird in a slicer like CURA, it does not make sense. It should be easy to inspect parts after slicing. Someone in (from Ultimaker I think) wrote, he did not like the way traditional CAD works, which is why it is as it is. But the rest of the world do and most people work in CAD before they print their 3D items. And since you need to verify that slicing is ok in all details before printing, you should make the tool easy to use and have the same feel as the CAD programs. I simply don't understand how such crazy rotation functionality could find its way into CURA.
PS: And then please make the rendering faster. It is just too slow when you visualize the layers
PPS: And please automatic shift between solid view and layer view - go to layer, when you have sliced and back when layers disappear.
video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tzx98ochfj5jx9/crazy rotation.mp4?dl=0
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Does not help much, since there is no explanation there
53 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:Explanation and implementation can be difficult. See this thread to see if it helps. The last messages are about playing with the numbers. Sometimes, ya just gotta fiddle around a bit.
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What IS the precise definition of the threshold value?
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Tree support, seems to have a bug when you choose "Touching build plate". Then they stop in mid air:
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Tree support, seems to have a bug when you choose "Touching build plate". Then they stop in mid air:
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The explanation of the threshold for adaptive layers is a bit unclear."This number is compared to the tan of the steepest slope in a layer". Does "tan" mean the trigonometric function "TAN()" or? Is "the number" a slope value or? The steepest slope in a layer? Isn't a "low" slope what usually needs higher resolution? Could be a nice feature, but unclear how it works
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Just got an UM3E. Lot of experience with printing using CR-10 and Prusa i3 MK2s.
When I want to print ABS with the UM, the leveling is way off. The printer starts heating the print core, then it does it's leveling "magic" and THEN it heats the bed (to the 100 Celsius). When the print starts, the distance to the plate in the back is a bit lower than 0.2 mm first layer is set to and at the front the layer is about 0.0 mm and I have to turn the screws to get it to extrude.
A 0.2 mm calibration error is NOT ok at all. The error should be less than 0.05 mm and preferably around the +/- 0.015 mm error I achieve on my CR-10 to get good first layers.
Since everything on this printer is controlled by the printer, there is no good way to manually correct this, and it shouldn't be necessary. I would expect one of the things you pay a lot for in addition to the nice swappable print core solution is accurate and fool proof bed tramming - if this does not work, UM3 seems to be a waste of money.
When I calibrate a bed manually I always do it after heating both bed and nozzle - the UM heats the bed after calibration. Is that the big mistake, that ruins the bed leveling? The bed hangs attached only in one end and is a bended alu plate. Not unrealistic to think it could bend 0.2 mm when heated from 20 to 100 degrees.
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I fully agree. Let me know, if I can provide any information or run any tests that can help you find the issue. Thanks
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Thanks @paulbeumer - it seems like you have a similar or the exact same problem with Cura 3 as I do.
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I have now updated my NVIDIA graphics drivers to the latest (390.65 from January 2018) and also tried to turn off all extra effects like anti aliasing in the NVIDIA control panel for Cura. No difference it is still slow (2 FPS). Fusion 360 for comparison runs smoothly with 20 FPS in complex models with antialiasing, smoothing and so on. Concerning:
On 1/10/2018 at 10:19 AM, nallath said:I understand the frustration, but comparing one application to another proves nothing. Looking at slicer, or any other program, won't provide us any information what is going wrong, because the software is fundamentally different. This is the equalivant of saying; "Hey, my android phone is slow and it does run fast on my iphone. You guys might want to port the iphone software to the nokia!".
I disagree that this does not provide any information. It shows that a similar type of program rendering more or less the same amount of lines (g-code passes) in 3D with shading can rotate a much higher frame-rate. That shows, that it is not a graphics driver / machine problem and that the DirectX or OpenGL you use for the rendering works. So it indicates that it is probably not a machine problem but either a problem in Cura OR the combination of Cura and my specific PC/ installation. After I updated to latest driver, now Simplify3D is slow too - but Slic3r is still super fast and they do use lines with a volume and not just hair lines - although it might not be useful to you ;-)
PS: Have ordered an Ultimaker 3 Extended today, which I understand only works with Cura and not Slic3r and Simplify3D, so really hope this will be solved at some point :-)
Thanks
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Yes, the settings updating is also much faster - i.e. it is smooth and fast as you would expect with no delays. So all seems to have to do with shaders.
Is there a GPU / Graphics test tool you would like me to rune to rule out or pinpoint what graphics operation might be slow on my machine?
PS: Although (another issue) changing from extruder 1 to extruder 2 when using Ultimaker 3 Extended takes 2 seconds. Not sure why it has to take that long. Also changing between printers takes 4-6 seconds
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So what kind of information would you like to get?
In legacy mode everything runs smoothly. Haven't updated drivers recently (3-4 months ago) and since CAD program like Autodesk Fusion 360 runs nicely I have not had any incentive to do so. But can try that now. What other troubleshooting suggestions do you have? Any tests to run? Any way to get useful logfile, profiling data etc?
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Did a quick comparison to Slic3r PE. Loaded 3 parts each about 10 x 10 x 10 cm on the plate and measured graphics update rate when rotating view:
Rotation and zoom before slicing:
Cura: ~ 20 FPS (Frames per second or update frequency in Hz)
Slic3r: ~60 FPS
Rotation and zoom during slicing:
Cura: 20 FPS
Slic3r: ~20 FPS
Rotation and zoom after slicing in layer preview (and after generating layer preview in Cura)
Cura: 1-2 Hz / FPS = Unbearable
Slic3r: ~ 20 Hz
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Well, I think the conclusion is that: 1) Cura is very slow on PC and has been for while, 2) The 3D navigation is clumsy and not up to normal 3D standards and both need improvements.
Introducing Ultimaker Cura 3.2 | Beta
in UltiMaker Cura
Posted
Must agree with the other use - the multiple build plate feature is not worth much, if you cant save all plates in one file.