Do not buy a used Ultimaker within the warranty period

[fabreax 15]

Hello,

Again, I'm very disappointed by Ultimaker ! I have bought a used Ultimaker 2+ Extended during the warranty period. I have the original invoice. And the right led panel is blinking :

I have contacted the french seller and they told me that if you buy a used Ultimaker, you cannot have a warranty ! https://ultimaker.com/en/resources/23230-ultimaker-2-extended-warranty

Are you kidding Ultimaker ?

This is unlawful in France : http://www.argusdelassurance.com/jurisprudences/jurisprudence-ja/transfert-de-garantie-quand-le-sous-acquereur-engage-une-action-directe-contre-le-vendeur-originel-du-vehicule.63345

Fabien

Edited March 10, 2017 by Guest

[jonatanrullman 17]

My french is not nearly good enough to read that article but I would think that french law in this heavily standardised area is pretty much the same as in these parts.

If that is the case I would think that you are mixing up warranty and legal guarantee. Warranty is extended by the manufacturer and can be hinged on several conditions, for example that you send in the piece of paper registering your warranty. Or that it only applies to the original owner.

Legal guarantee however is mandatory and cannot be denied for this reason. It could be denied for a number of other reasons however, especially with a unit of this kind. Legal guarantee is first extended by the seller of the product, so you would have to contact the company that sold the unit, i.e. those whose invoice you have. This may of course be Ultimaker themselves I suppose. If that fails you could go one step beyond, which would probably be Ultimaker.

On my UM2 I had the really, really bad led lights that were encased. They were less than useful. So I tore it out and replaced it with two pieces of 24V led strip I bought off Aliexpress for a pittance. I did not replace the strip on the top because it was incredibly hard to do (I did try) and also did not actually serve much purpose. So instead I put one strip on each side and wired them both from the bottom. If your problem is the led strip and not the control board, that would be one way out if you are so inclined. Based on the video I would think that the control board is not the culprit. It does look like it is just one or two leds on the top that are bad, the lower ones seem stable.

Cheers

Edited March 12, 2017 by Guest

[fabreax 15]

Thanks @jonatanrullman for your feedback.

For instance, Formlabs does not have this unacceptable rule of warranty.

[SyntaxTerror 344]

Not all warranties are transferable. The right to transfer warranty to another person will depend on whether it has been issued to you personally or whether it accompanies the goods in question. The terms and conditions should make this point clear, and in this case the warranty does not transfer to the second owner. You may still have the right to return the printer to the seller, though.

[jonatanrullman 17]

Thanks @jonatanrullman for your feedback.

For instance, Formlabs does not have this unacceptable rule of warranty.

 

Np.

I think that you will find that Formlabs does not agree on that point.

"Formlabs warrants Formlabs-branded hardware products against defects in materials and workmanship under normal use for a period of one year from the date of retail purchase by the original end-user purchaser [...]"

Edited March 13, 2017 by Guest

[fabreax 15]

 

Thanks @jonatanrullman for your feedback.

For instance, Formlabs does not have this unacceptable rule of warranty.

 

Np.

I think that you will find that Formlabs does not agree on that point.

"Formlabs warrants Formlabs-branded hardware products against defects in materials and workmanship under normal use for a period of one year from the date of retail purchase by the original end-user purchaser [...]"

 

The Formlabs support today : "The warranty is for the product, so the printer would still have warranty."

[jonatanrullman 17]

The Formlabs support today : "The warranty is for the product, so the printer would still have warranty."

 

Have you contacted Ultimaker support? Because you quote Ultimaker and I quote Formlabs. Obviously Formlabs does not take this all that seriously in the scenario that you asked them about, so perhaps Ultimaker won't as well?

I still claim that you may not even need warranty in this case. If the unit is less than a year old it will most likely, barring that I'm not well versed in french law, be under legal guarantee and you won't need to claim warranty against the seller at all.

Perhaps @SandervG would be kind enough to clarify the official response to this particular question?

Cheers

Edited March 13, 2017 by Guest

[fabreax 15]

 

The Formlabs support today : "The warranty is for the product, so the printer would still have warranty."

 

Have you contacted Ultimaker support? Because you quote Ultimaker and I quote Formlabs. Obviously Formlabs does not take this all that seriously in the scenario that you asked them about, so perhaps Ultimaker won't as well?

I still claim that you may not even need warranty in this case. If the unit is less than a year old it will most likely, barring that I'm not well versed in french law, be under legal guarantee and you won't need to claim warranty against the seller at all.

Perhaps @SandervG would be kind enough to clarify the official response to this particular question?

Cheers

 

Thanks. Yes I have contacted the french Ultimaker support "MakerShop", they told me there is no warranty for the buyer who buy a used Ultimaker under warranty period !

[jonatanrullman 17]

Thanks. Yes I have contacted the french Ultimaker support "MakerShop", they told me there is no warranty for the buyer who buy a used Ultimaker under warranty period !

 

Well, that would be a reseller and not Ultimaker themselves. Wait a while for Sander to weigh in and see what the official response is.

Otherwise contact Ultimakers own support to see what they think.

From a purely jurisprudential perspective, based on my best guess about french law from my experience of EU law, I would say that this is the correct (loosely speaking) way of going about the problem.

1. If the seller you bought the machine from is a business whose primary business dealing is related to 3D-printers, say a makerspace or reseller. Contact them and claim legal guarantee.

2. If the seller is a private entity or a business that does not usually deal in 3D printers or the like, say a company that manufactures boats. Contact the seller whose invoice I understand that you got, this appears to be MakerShop, and claim legal guarantee.

3. If the seller does not want to comply, claiming that they do not honor legal guarantee for second hand units or otherwise that the fault is not covered. Contact Ultimaker support directly and explain the situation and see if they are willing to help, either by putting pressure on the reseller or by fixing the problem themselves.

4. Contact the seller of the printer and ask if he or she would be willing to help out, for example by invoking the warranty himself as the original purchaser. Theoretically this would require you to sell the printer back and it could be a pretty odd situation to make work unless you are willing to fudge the edges a bit. You could also try and claim that you want to return the printer or demand a retrospective price reduction because the printer did not in actuality come with the warranty that the seller may have claimed.

5. Let's hope it doesn't come this far and you should ignore this step if you are sane. I'm only including it because it is the theoretical next step. Contact a lawyer and possibly file a small claims case in your nearest court.

As a backup plan to this you can quite easily fix the printer yourself if you own a soldering iron and some suitable cleaning agent to make the adhesive stick properly. Since you are out of warranty anyway this won't be a big deal. The led strip costs about €4 for a 5m length and takes maybe 20 minutes to replace.

Still, this is purely theoretical. I would be somewhat surprised if you are not able to come to a suitable compromise somewhere along the way since we are talking about a glitching led strip, almost obviously a warranty issue under any circumstance, and the unit is just a few months old. I would however wait for Sander or Ultimaker support to say what they think about it.

Cheers

[f5bqp 11]

It's completely ILLEGAL for a distributor to refuse to support a second hand equipment which is still under the warranty period .

The only reason the distributor could refuse to support the product is if the new owner of the product isn't able to prove he has purchased legaly the product.

The warranty isn't attached to a person but to the product itself .

This legal issue is the same into all the European Communities.

If I was facing to such a situation believe me I certainly would go directly to see my lawyer .

I already have purchased recently a UM3 Extended, I'll probably buy a second machine, I was thinking for UM2 or UM3, seeing this a situation I'm wodering if I'll stay with Ultimaker of find another solution.

In anycase my next purchase will include this question within my decision.

[Titus 170]

 

@SandervG might be able to help you with this

[fabreax 15]

Thank you very much for your help !

I'm waiting for answers from the french distributor and Ultimaker.

[jonatanrullman 17]

It's completely ILLEGAL for a distributor to refuse to support a second hand equipment which is still under the warranty period.

 

Again. Please, please, PLEASE, do not confuse warranty and legal guarantee.

It is entirely legal to refuse warranty based one the colour of someones trousers if you really wanted to. But of course if you saw a warranty statement including that provision you may want to consider if that is in fact the manufacturer you want to deal with.

Warranty is a voluntary agreement between the manufacturer and the end customer. Legal guarantee is mandatory by law. They are two entirely different things and should not in any way or under any circumstance be confused or used interchangeably.

You may argue however that it is bad business practise but that is another question entirely.

Can we just put the jurisproudence to rest in this matter once and for all and wait for Ultimaker to get back on this issue?

Cheers

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @Fabreax, thank you for your message. I've seen your message before the weekend but I wanted to make sure that my reply would be correct so I was waiting for some feedback from my colleagues.

First of all, sorry to hear you are having some issues with your LED's. But it looks like it shouldn't be a difficult problem to fix. Perhaps something you could do yourself, but I can imagine, if you have some warranty coverage, you would prefer that route.

I checked with my colleague from support, and they said that we continue to help and support our customers within the warranty period, even if the Ultimaker is second hand. Perhaps there was a mistake with Makershop, or some confusion but you should be happy to know you get the help you deserve to solve this.

I would like to ask you to get in touch with Ultimaker and we will connect you with Makershop and get things sorted.

I will DM you with some specific instructions.

Hopefully this helps, if you have any further questions please feel free to ask

[jonatanrullman 17]

See. Chill and let Sander sort things out. :-)

He has a "van" in his name. And a magnificent beard. What else could one expect. ;-)

[SandervG 1,521]

See. Chill and let Sander sort things out. :-)

He has a "van" in his name. And a magnificent beard. What else could one expect. ;-)

 

[f5bqp 11]

NO ! :angry:

Please don't play with the words... You know perfectly what I was saying.

And SandervG from the Ultimaker team has perfectly understood the message, thanks to him for the fair message to Fabreax .

For me this close the debate "the right led will stop blinking"...

pf

 

 

It's completely ILLEGAL for a distributor to refuse to support a second hand equipment which is still under the warranty period.

 

Again. Please, please, PLEASE, do not confuse warranty and legal guarantee.

It is entirely legal to refuse warranty based one the colour of someones trousers if you really wanted to. But of course if you saw a warranty statement including that provision you may want to consider if that is in fact the manufacturer you want to deal with.

Warranty is a voluntary agreement between the manufacturer and the end customer. Legal guarantee is mandatory by law. They are two entirely different things and should not in any way or under any circumstance be confused or used interchangeably.

You may argue however that it is bad business practise but that is another question entirely.

Can we just put the jurisproudence to rest in this matter once and for all and wait for Ultimaker to get back on this issue?

Cheers

 

[jonatanrullman 17]

NO !  :angry:

Please don't play with the words... You know perfectly what I was saying.

 

It isn't playing with words. It is absolutely necessary not to confuse the terms. Seriously. I did understand what you said, problem is that probably wasn't what you intended. You said warranty, but I assume that you meant legal guarantee. There's really no telling though. You might actually think that it is illegal to deny a warranty claim as you said.

The results of that mixup is usually not bad. They usually don't matter in fact, because often they can be used interchangeably or people understand the intended meaning. But do yourself a favour and never try to write a legal contract (like a will or a prenup) using apparently interchangeable terms without understanding their meaning.

The debate was closed long ago. I won't be reading this thread anymore.

[fabreax 15]

I have received today a new led strip. Thanks @SandervG and Ultimaker. I always have to contact Ultimaker directly ...

[SandervG 1,521]

Happy that you got the help you needed @Fabreax!

[Ronan 58]

Good to know!

FYI jonatanrullman refusing warranty work within it's legal time frame is a good way to end up in court.

I know, i took a reseller and manufacturer to court for it a few years ago, and won. That was in the US too, where things aren't as tight and well done as in Europe.

[Monaliz 0]

Hello all thanksyou so much already to make me here

[Monaliz 0]

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