Bondtech DDG Settings for Duet 2 Wifi Help - Extruder making weird noise with 311 e-step settings

[rad_spider 0]

Okay, so I'm doing a test print this morning. And I hear this weird clicking noise from the extruder. Every 4-8 seconds (give or take).

 

I've heard something similar before, having spent a lot of time messing with the firmware. I'd sometimes discover the bloody config tool defaulted the e-steps to the wrong number. Only it was much more obvious back then with the weird clicking noise (which is likely bad for the filament and the gear inside). This problem should all be past tense after the fixes that have been made. But...

 

It is still around, only with a longer delay. So I have to ask is 311 really the right number for e-Steps? Or am I missing numbers to get this working right (see second screenshot)? I was trying to avoid calibrating eSteps through the manual method, but I feel I have no choice now.

 

Help me out here. What went wrong? Has this happened to you?

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by rad_spider

[tinkergnome 927]

311 is the correct number for x16 microstepping.

But I remember similar problems with interpolation on the extruder motor. Now i use it with x32 microstepping (no interpolation) and 622 steps/mm. Works much better.

 

In addition: 800mA is quite low if this are genuine Ultimaker motors. Consider to raise the current a bit for testing.

The same goes for the E0 speed settings. For example:

max. speed change: 5 mm/s

max. speed: 50 mm/s

Acceleration: 1000 mm/s²

 

Good luck!

 

[rad_spider 0]

2 hours ago, tinkergnome said:

311 is the correct number for x16 microstepping.

But I remember similar problems with interpolation on the extruder motor. Now i use it with x32 microstepping (no interpolation) and 622 steps/mm. Works much better.

 

In addition: 800mA is quite low if this are genuine Ultimaker motors. Consider to raise the current a bit for testing.

The same goes for the E0 speed settings. For example:

max. speed change: 5 mm/s

max. speed: 50 mm/s

Acceleration: 1000 mm/s²

 

Good luck!

 

Thank you for your response.

 

I tried 311, and now I've been trying the number I got after calculating the e-steps by the 100mm extrusion test. I'm now factoring in some of the example numbers you added. No idea if it works yet. As I had to declog the nozzle from the last tests.

 

Unfortunately, my extruder motor is the only third party stepper motor in my machine. Due to my inability to remove the metallic gear of the old extruder from the original UM2 stepper motor. Instead, I installed a spare stepper motor I had for a Tenlog printer I plan to restore and probably sell. It's a large stepper, and I know little about it. Other then it's wiring.

 

Still, I can't imagine I need much torque for a geared Bondtech extruder. So I'm not sure if increasing the mA will help? I could be wrong. I did raise it up to 900mA for a test, it sounded like it was exerting more then it needed to push the filament.

 

I did increase the speed and the mA for X,Y,Z. That was always the plan, and it makes sense to me they could use more juice to move faster. I just don't know if faster is better for the extruder? I felt like the clogs and the clicking noise are a symptom of pushing filament to the nozzle too fast.

 

But I'm going to try again. Hopefully I get a more accurate result. I really do wish someone had all the magic values I needed for this. Well, the extruder is that last holdout to get this thing working. So I'm hoping for a breakthrough.

 

It just kills me that I thought all I needed to do was level the bed three days ago and it turned into an extension of tinkering with the firmware.

[tinkergnome 927]

17 hours ago, rad_spider said:

Unfortunately, my extruder motor is the only third party stepper motor in my machine. Due to my inability to remove the metallic gear of the old extruder from the original UM2 stepper motor. Instead, I installed a spare stepper motor I had for a Tenlog printer I plan to restore and probably sell. It's a large stepper, and I know little about it. Other then it's wiring.

 

Ok... that's another important thing to know.

Does the Tenlog printer also use 24V motors? Or is voltage not important for stepper motors? I'm not sure.

 

Be aware that steps/rev. is not the same for all stepper motors. The motor of the UM2 has 400 steps/rev. (0.9° per step), while the UM2+ uses a motor with 200 steps/rev. (1.8° per step).

Both are common values, but... what's the value for your replacement motor? This may be.... who knows...?

The value 311 (steps/mm) is only valid for a motor with 200 steps/rev. and 16x microstepping.

 

Is buying an UM2+ extruder motor an option? Your favourite Ultimaker reseller should be able to offer such things and it would rule out a lot of guesswork. Just saying...

 

 

[rad_spider 0]

5 hours ago, tinkergnome said:

 

Ok... that's another important thing to know.

Does the Tenlog printer also use 24V motors? Or is voltage not important for stepper motors? I'm not sure.

 

Be aware that steps/rev. is not the same for all stepper motors. The motor of the UM2 has 400 steps/rev. (0.9° per step), while the UM2+ uses a motor with 200 steps/rev. (1.8° per step).

Both are common values, but... what's the value for your replacement motor? This may be.... who knows...?

The value 311 (steps/mm) is only valid for a motor with 200 steps/rev. and 16x microstepping.

 

Is buying an UM2+ extruder motor an option? Your favourite Ultimaker reseller should be able to offer such things and it would rule out a lot of guesswork. Just saying...

 

 

Buying a new UM2 motor? Ah, maybe. I just don't know if it's worth it if I don't know the missing values. If I got definitive numbers for Max. Speed Change (mm/s), Max. Speed (mm/s), Acceleration (mm/s²), and Motor Current (mA) that would be perfect. That way if I know my extruder is messing up with those values plus the e-step numbers that should work, the list of what could be the cause behind it will have shrunk a great deal. I can choose to keep experimenting with the stepper I got or buy the stepper that will work with those values no question!  The latter is more likely.

 

My latest try I picked what information I could for Bondtech's DDG guide (https://support.bondtech.se/Document/sjUxItjSPQiKm1NH/Bondtech-DDG-Ultimaker-V2.0.pdf) for the UM2 firmware. I don't think it translates well to Duet, or I'm interpreting it wrong. Or it could be the stepper as you say. Tenlog is on github, I could comb through their code next week for details on the stepper motors they use. Maybe I'll learn something useful.

 

The pictures below show my latest interpretation (which I fully admit could be wrong). Mind you I'm using the steps, I calculated after extruding 100mm of filament. While 825mA, is what I think is meant to be the value used (66% of move power percentage). But I also tried 1250mA (it seems like too much).

 

Currently, I think it's over extruding with these settings as I'll find a lump of plastic in the middle of my calibration cube on the first layer. A print I've never been able to finish so far. It also sounds like a vacuum on top of that when it extrudes. The clicking is still there, but sometimes more spaced out.

 

I will resume trying to find an answer on Monday. I refuse to touch the printer on a work day. I need to keep my morale up. But I still appreciate the insight. Thank you.

 

I'll look into Motor Step Angle next week. Maybe it is part of my problem.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by rad_spider