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(solved, I guess - I blame the filament) Small "decal" not sticking to the top. Filament fail or user error? Or impossible print? (Extrudr dark wood)


Rejutka
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Posted (edited) · (solved, I guess - I blame the filament) Small "decal" not sticking to the top. Filament fail or user error? Or impossible print? (Extrudr dark wood)

The "decal" (didn't find a better word) in question is the letter "e", seen in the second picture. The first picture is the layer before it - as you can see, it's simply added on top of the layer (not big enough to print a hol, like the q), and for some reason the "e" won't stick. It gets printed alright, but with the slightest pressure it simply pops off and you don't even see an outline where the filament was.

I'm printing with 180°, and tried unsuccessfully with 185 - I don't want to go higher as I fear it'll burn the filament (the smell changed to something burnt already, and I know from previous prints that it's likely to separate some liquid that clogs the nozzle when overheated).

image.thumb.png.5b6f9f2876e6aeb66186cb882dded878.pngimage.thumb.png.48e75bd43c714f14ca747adea4b4104b.png

 

Is there a way to force Cura to "integrate" objects like this into the layer before it, like it does when the area is big enough (like the q)?

I've checked the design (made in Tinkercad), and the "e" does not float above the layer.

The STL does look weird when viewed in Meshmixer, which I don't understand - Cura seems to like it well enough.

 

This is the filament I used: https://www.extrudr.com/en/products/catalogue/dark-wood_2397/

Although the spool I use is a bit old (at least a year, I think).

ScrabbleDice.stl

 

 

 

[EDIT] I've now printed a shortened version (basically just the top) with 170 instead of 180. Either it's because now I've used Cura 5.0 or because of the lower temperature, but it seemed to stick MUCH better.
I'll print the whole cube to see if it sticks this time. (Maybe there's something wrong with the printer at that height?)

 

Edited by Rejutka
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    Posted · (solved, I guess - I blame the filament) Small "decal" not sticking to the top. Filament fail or user error? Or impossible print? (Extrudr dark wood)

    The model has errors.  When you load the STL does the "Not Watertight" warning come up?

    After looking at your slice and then slicing it myself I thought you may have uploaded a different model.

     

    Here the model on the left has been repaired and the model on the right is the one you uploaded.  I don't have your settings (you can pass them along but using the "File | Save Project" command and posting the 3mf file).

    This is the layer before the "e".

    image.thumb.png.12a4587bc36c95d55454d86e9cb9493c.png

     

    In this one I added a model repaired at https://formware.co/OnlineStlRepair.  It's the left bottom one.  All three models sliced differently which is bizarre in itself.  

    image.thumb.png.f5fcf9463f706401af705d000306a40a.png

     

    So it looks like there are some disconnects in the model.  I used MS 3D Builder to repair the left top model but none of the models look right to me.  Although TinkerCad is fussy about how the surfaces go together and which side should face outside (see Inverted Faces in the report), this problem seems a bit different.

    I don't know if that directly has anything to do with your adhesion issue but as you can see my slices look different than yours.  This was a .4 nozzle at .2 layer height.  I went down to a .05 layer height and the slicing was pretty much the same.

    Regarding having Cura inset the "e" deeper into the model, no.  That's a CAD operation.  If the "e" was a separate model then it could be inset further.

     

    Here is the repair report:

    --> 0 Naked edges (?)
    --> 0 Planar holes (?)
    --> 0 Non-planar holes (?)
    --> 14 Non-manifold edges (?)
    --> 23 Inverted faces (?)
    --> 2 Degenerate faces (?)
    --> 0 Duplicate faces (?)
    --> 0 Disjoint shells (?)

    image.png

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    Posted · (solved, I guess - I blame the filament) Small "decal" not sticking to the top. Filament fail or user error? Or impossible print? (Extrudr dark wood)

    There is no message from Cura - is it possible that I deactivated it somehow?

    Here's the settings:CE3PRO_ScrabbleDice.3mf

    So maybe I messed them up somehow.

     

    What's weird is that I printed the same design with a different material (ProtoPasta Iron Pla) and the letters seemed to stick better.
    And like I added in my edit, with 170 it seems to stick better as well (still have to try printing the whole cube, though).

    I guess part of the problem is that the whole design is somewhat complex - lots and lots of little separate forms that are joined together, usually not all at once.
    Maybe I should unlink everything and join it again all at once.

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    • Rejutka changed the title to (solved, I guess - I blame the filament) Small "decal" not sticking to the top. Filament fail or user error? Or impossible print? (Extrudr dark wood)
    Posted · (solved, I guess - I blame the filament) Small "decal" not sticking to the top. Filament fail or user error? Or impossible print? (Extrudr dark wood)

    Finishing reply - just reprinted the cube with 170° (sliced with Cura 5) - the "e" stuck a bit better (it left a mark when I pried it off), but the whole cube itself easily separated when I pulled it apart.

    So I blame the filament, I was never that happy with it to begin with.

    Very likely I'm also doing something wrong, but I don't think it's worth the time to investigate further. I don't plan on buying it again.

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    Posted (edited) · (solved, I guess - I blame the filament) Small "decal" not sticking to the top. Filament fail or user error? Or impossible print? (Extrudr dark wood)

    I think much of this can be fixed with more practice with TinkerCad.  I don't use it myself but a lot of people do.  You always need to watch for inverted faces and things that can confuse Cura.  This is a complicated model.  It was an ambitious effort on your part.

    I used the Cura Mesh Tools - "Split Model Into Parts" function and two pieces came loose.  You can see mesh 2 but the third is infinitely small.  The Origin arrows in this picture are indicating the third mesh.

    In regards to the "e" you can go back into TinkerCad and try moving it into the main model a couple hundredths of a mm.  It's possible to "Union" in Cad with the parts not in contact with each other.  That leads to the rather technical issue of "funkiness" in the model and I guess Cura isn't into Funk.  Rock n Roll might be OK.

    image.thumb.png.68d581bf631f6f552fd072cd14b9e447.png

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted (edited) · (solved, I guess - I blame the filament) Small "decal" not sticking to the top. Filament fail or user error? Or impossible print? (Extrudr dark wood)

    I didn't know about Mesh Tools - usually I check it in Meshmixer to see if parts come lose, but with this model Meshmixer acted weird. Guess now I know the reason.

     

    I've added Mesh Tools and I get the "not watertight" message. VERY useful extension!

    OK, I've just checked that particular part - and indeed the trefoil is actually 0,01 mm above the plane. That explains that.

    I don't really t see WHY it is, though. But the original part also has that defect, so the issue must be old (the current cube is the last iteration of several).

     

    I *think* that sometimes Tinkercad gets confused and acts "randomly" when merging objects, especially if they're complex - and I've got a dozen of those cubes in the project, each having 12 sub-objects and so on.

     

    I will have to re-check all parts, probably best if I completely redo the whole cubes once I checked the parts.

     

    In any case, many thanks again!

     

     

    [edit] To add: I think part of the problem is the "text" shape generator. When I embedd a text in a solid cube, the surface is all wrinkled up in Meshmixer. Either I'm using it wrong or it's creating errors.

    Edited by Rejutka
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    Posted · (solved, I guess - I blame the filament) Small "decal" not sticking to the top. Filament fail or user error? Or impossible print? (Extrudr dark wood)

    It looks to me that as the top-end slicers have evolved that one of the things they've gotten better at is finding and reporting defects in the model.  An unfortunate side effect of that is that they are fussier about those defects.  When I get weirdness in a slice I always start troubleshooting by checking the model.  

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