Nozzle heating issue

[NaGaNn 0]

Hi guys !

 

I recently installed an Oldson block  and a new heater on my Ultimaker 2 and I printed the benchmark boat with a 0.25 nozzle and had no problem. I changed the nozzle for a 0.8 to print a bigger project, and the heating problem appeared. My nozzle temperature is getting lower and lower while printing, but the fans are off. Then an heating error appears on the printer. Have you ever had this problem ?

[gr5 2,192]

Can you say exactly which heating problem you got?  The most common are ER01 and ER03 for nozzle heater issues.

 

If it's ER01 then you have a problem with your sensor.

 

If it's ER03 then you might want to buy a heater with a higher wattage rating.  Why did you buy a new heater?  Where did  you get the heater?

 

Also ER03 is common if the heater block is touching the fan shroud.  With the print head cool (not hot), try to slip a piece of paper between the olsson block and the fan shroud.  If you can't then you need to either loosen and adjust the fan shroud or you need to raise up the Olsson block just a tiny bit.  You need at least 0.2mm air gap between the two.  Otherwise the fan shroud acts as a huge heatsink.

 

However if you only get the error with the 0.8mm nozzle then more likely you have a wimpy heater.  You can test the heater by measuring it's resistance.  The wattage is v^2/R and v is 24Volts so 576/resistance.  I believe the standard wattage is 25W and 3dsolex sells 35W as standard heaters and you can also get 40W or 50W heaters from 3dsolex but 35W should be enough for a 0.8mm nozzle when printing at around 30mm/sec.  Printing at 200mm/sec with 0.8mm nozzle and 0.4mm layers you probably need a 50W heater.

[NaGaNn 0]

22 minutes ago, gr5 said:

 

If it's ER03 then you might want to buy a heater with a higher wattage rating. Why did you buy a new heater? Where did you get the heater?

Yes it's ER03. I bought a new heater because the old one broke inside the previous heater block. I bought this heater :https://ie.rs-online.com/web/p/3d-printer-parts/9082957

[gr5 2,192]

That's the sensor, not the heater.

[gr5 2,192]

Did you check if the heater block is touching the fan shroud?  That's the most common problem I've seen on this forum for people with UM2 series printers.  It even happened to me.  Twice!  The fan should was just kind of hung up and I just needed to loosen the 4 screws and kind of shove it over a bit.  But you may also need rotate that cylindrical ring that holds the olsson block.  Possibly.

[NaGaNn 0]

Yeah that's the sensor that I changed, sorry. I tried with 0.6 and 0.4 nozzles and i didn't have the heater error. And no, the heater block isn't touching the fan shroud. 

[gr5 2,192]

Well your description is a bit vague so I have questions:

1) Before you changed the sensor, did it ever work with a 0.8mm nozzle?  Are you using the same layer height, speed, temp and material?

2) How much did the temp dip?  If your heater is a bit wimpy typically the temp will dip by 5C or 10C.  If so then the heater can't keep up.  If it's jumping around say 200C and then a second later at 100C then the sensor is bad.  Most likely it's the heater.

3) How fast are you printing with the .8 nozzle?  I need to know:

a) material (pla?)

b) layer height

c) print speed

 

Right now my best guess is that your heater is wimpy.  it was *always* wimpy.  And you are just printing a little bit too fast for the heater.  But... I could certainly be wrong.

 

ER03 during a print is almost always a problem related to the heater, not the sensor.  But it's possible that the problem is the sensor, I'll know much more how likely the problem is the sensor versus the heater after you answer the 3 questions above.

[gr5 2,192]

Also sometimes I forget to read this thread so to get faster answers send me a direct message *after* you post here to remind me to check this thread.

[NaGaNn 0]

Hi ! 

 

1) I have never tried with a 0.8 mm nozzle before installing the olsson block.  I tried with the same speed and material but with a 0.5 layer height.

 

2) The temperature dips by 5C

 

3) The printing speed is 60mm/s. I used ABS (TitanX from FuturaForm) with a 0.6 mm layer height.

 

Thank you !

[gr5 2,192]

.6mm layer height X 0.8mm line width X 60mm/sec results in 29 cubic mm per second.  Thats... a lot.  Oh!! And it's ABS.  So yeah there is no way with the standard 25 Watt heater.  So, um, good news?  Nothing is broken.

 

You can get a 50 watt heater from 3dsolex.com if you want to print that much volume.  I used to sell them.  I actually might have one...

 

Nope.  I don't have any left (I've been shutting down my store slowly).

 

But 3dsolex sells very good quality heaters.  35W, 40W, and 50W.  At least they used to have all 3 wattages.  Not sure what their current selection is.

 

You'll also want to change the PID a bit for the 50W heater.  You don't absolutely have to but I recommend it.  I have PID values if you want them.  I've probably also posted them for various wattage heaters.

 

 

[gr5 2,192]

Here is from an old post:

 

 

Actually I strongly recommend you install the tinkergnome version of the Marlin firmware.  It can be found here:

https://github.com/TinkerGnome/Ultimaker2Marlin/releases

Use 16.01 which is the most stable version and it works great.  Just scroll way the hell down until you get to 16.01.  You will get so many great features there is no need to go to newer versions.

tinker Marlin has all the same menu entries but is much nicer - for example you can continue a failed print starting at any height.  And it shows you more things that are going on while printing.

The default PID values are 10,2.5,100 for the 25W heater.  For 35W heater you might try 7.5, 1.8, 75.  But if you will be printing at high throughput - for example with 1mm nozzle, .4mm layers, 50mm/sec then the default values may be fine.

Tinkergnome marlin lets you set the PID values right on the menu and also it will do the auto tune for you right from the menu if you want.

neotko had good luck with 35W pid values at 8, .5, 33

These are good starting PID values for various heaters
25W PID 10, 2.5, 100
35W PID 7.5, 1.8, 75
35W PID 8, .5, 33 (neotko recommends)
40W PID 6.5, 1.5, 60
50w PID 5, 1.2, 50
50W PID 5.6, .35, 23  (neotko X 35/50)

40W PID 6.2, 1.5, 33  (george suspects should work well)

In general if the temperature is hanging out below desired temp for many minutes then raise P and I 20%.
If P or I are too high it will oscillate.  I creates a slower oscillation.  I'm guessing oscillation due to P is probably around 30 to 60 seconds.  I would be slower.  D is like the brakes.  D (stands for derivative as in calculus) dampens the power when the temp is moving fast.  So it helps dampen oscillation and helps prevent overshoot on initial heatup.  I is the slow long term adjustment to eventually get the temp exactly perfect.

If it gets close to the desired temperature but stops 3 to 5C lower the first time and then takes another minute to get up to temp it's probably that D is too large.  Try cutting it by around 20% or 50%.

D can paradoxically cause oscillations also.  So usually I recommend increasing D if the overshoot bothers you.  Decreasing I and P and increasing D by maybe 10% at a time if it oscillates.  Use lower values on all of these for higher wattage heaters with everything else being the same.

gcodes for setting pid e.g. for 40W values above:

M301 H1 P6.2 I1.5 D33
M500

The M500 saves to permanent memory.  Without doing that you lose PID values on power cycle.  So for example put the above 2 lines of gcode into a file - say a.gcode, then save onto SD card and put into an Ultimaker, choose print, choose a.  done.  Your PID is updated.

MORE DETAILS:
http://reprap.org/wiki/G_code#M301:_Set_PID_parameters

[NaGaNn 0]

Thanks very much for your time, I appreciate it !

[mashoodsheikh 0]

It seems like you've encountered a heating issue with your Ultimaker 2 after changing the nozzle size. This problem can occur due to several reasons. Here are a few things you can check and troubleshoot:

Nozzle compatibility: Ensure that the new 0.8 nozzle you installed is compatible with your Ultimaker 2. Check the specifications and make sure it is within the supported range.

 

Temperature settings: Verify that you have adjusted the temperature settings in your slicing software or printer firmware to accommodate the larger nozzle size. Different nozzle sizes require different temperatures for optimal printing.

Heating element and thermistor: Check the connections of the heating element and the thermistor (temperature sensor) on your printer. Make sure they are properly attached and functioning correctly. A loose or faulty connection can lead to temperature fluctuations and heating errors.

 

Heater cartridge: The heater cartridge may need to be replaced if it is not providing sufficient heat. It's possible that the increased demand from the larger nozzle is exceeding the capabilities of the current heater cartridge.

 

Firmware update: Ensure that your Ultimaker 2's firmware is up to date. Sometimes, firmware updates can address known heating issues and provide improved temperature control.

If you have tried these troubleshooting steps and the problem persists, it would be helpful to consult the Ultimaker community forums or reach out to Ultimaker support for further assistance. They may have specific recommendations based on your printer model and the modifications you've made.

 

Remember to exercise caution when working with your printer and its components to avoid any potential damage or injury. Good luck with resolving the heating issue!