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Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality


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Posted (edited) · Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality

I'm trying to print the attached lower face section in PLA+ Silver Silk by Sunlu. Layer adhesion is great as is to the plate.

 

The issue is the nasty marks on the lower side of the face that always print in the same area although not always exactly in the same place to the millimeter. To see if it's the seam I moved the seam and they moved move with it on the next print, however the seam is on the back. None of it is on the front and Cura's preview shows that. Looking at the seam on the print, there doesn't appear to be a gap in the back seam where some moved to the front. I've also watched the print happen and there doesn't appear to be a pause or layer change occurring.

 

Is it the tree supports? I tried printing the first few layers with no support and the marks were gone. I then printed it with Normal supports and the problem too was gone.

 

The odd thing is, if I print using the Standard or Dynamic quality templates it doesn't happen at all using tree supports. Only Super and regardless of tree Everywhere or Touching Buildplate.

 

The thing that made me think it might be a wayward tree support is on one print it created a little tower on the side of the print in that exact spot; photo attached.

 

Final test was to print Super Quality with Normal supports and again the marks don't appear.

 

So is it the seam? It moves when I move the seam, however it's only created when Super Quality is used and only in conjunction with tree supports.

 

The other zits on the surface on the normal support image go away if I print with 0.5 resolution or thin walls enabled so I'm not worried about those.

 

I've attached an example project that I sent to print and the corresponding gcode.

 

Any help very much appreciated!

 

UltiMaker Cura 5.7.1

Creality Ender 3 S1 Pro

PLA+ Silver Silk

Nozzel 215 / Plate 60

Speed 40ms
Sealed Enclosure with ambient temp of 72

G Sensor vibration test passed

 

 

close up.jpg

layer.jpg

 

Faceplate Super Quality 40ms Tree 215 60 Cubic.gcode Faceplate Super Quality 40ms Tree 215 60 Cubic.3mf

Edited by Bumbletoon
Misleading photos now cause has been found
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    • Bumbletoon changed the title to Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality
    • Solution
    Posted · Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality

    The marks on the left cheek look similar to what happens when the print head hesitates going around a curve.  That very short hesitation can cause a little blob.  It looks similar to a problem that can occur on the hulls of some Benchys.

    But...

    The marks on the left jaw area near the Z-seam...I don't know.  It's at the beginning of a straight run so there wouldn't be any hesitation there.  That puts doubt on the ones on the cheek being from hesitation as well.

     

    All your settings look pretty normal.  The model is small so my personal preference would be to make a couple of changes.  "Max comb distance with no retract" to a smaller number like 1.50.  That will help with any stringing between the model and the support.

    The "Connect Infill Lines" setting can greatly cut down on the number of retractions.

    I would enable Z-hops for this print.  Looking at the preview of the slice, there aren't any travel moves that intersect either the left jaw or left cheek areas.  Silkies are susceptible to leaving marks when the nozzle moves outside a print to the support, and then back into the model.  Enabling Z-hops can help with that as the nozzle will pass over the outer wall rather than dragging across it.

    I would lower the Acceleration to 500.  That will generally leave a better finish on small models that have a lot of starts and stops and might help with the ringing in your prints.

    If you were to enable "Make Overhangs Printable" then the underside of the nose would not require support.  That would completely eliminate the nozzle moving outside the print for this model.

     

    I'll mention this just in passing:  I bought a roll of Sunlu Silky Silver from Amazon and I had trouble with it.  It turned out to be loaded with moisture.  I haven't had any trouble with other rolls of Sunlu filament and a lot of people use it.  That one roll though...someone may have left it out in the rain before they packaged it.  It was really bad.

    As good as the silkies can look, they can be fussy and show every little flaw.

     

    This is a gcode with your settings, my Ender 3 Pro, and some funky silky gold that's been sitting for a year.

    I dropped the Accel at the indicated layer in each image and from there up the finish looks better.

    head2.thumb.png.fdd81a23376dd2cfe1d3403e264422c8.png

    head1.thumb.png.47160134b6faa4ae05694dcf19847a78.png

     

     

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    Posted (edited) · Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality

     

    Thank you again for taking so much time to help me. I'll hopefully try each of those options in a series of tests and report back hopefully by midweek!

     

    Edited by Bumbletoon
    Misleading photos and text one actual cause was found.
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    Posted (edited) · Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality

    These are part of a costume (Bender the Robot from Futurama).  They are large prints so any flaws (and there aren't many) are hard to pick out.  The filament was fresh and dry.

    All-in-all I was quite pleased with the way the entire project turned out.

    (That's a glue joint you can see where the fingers meet the wrist.)

     

    DSCN3286.thumb.JPG.8064ddda6cf117c7863f2ca3b93c0a25.JPG

     

     

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted · Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality

    I designed the "Bender Brau" label but couldn't figure out how to print it the way I wanted it.  Another problem was that it wouldn't slide into the fingers with the printing on it.  So it's just generic "Brand X" beer which was my go-to brand anyway.  Cheap was good.

     

    Yes, I've put this up previously.  This was before I printed the bottle.  I was afraid that a glass bottle would slide out of the fingers.  It wouldn't do to waste good beer like that.

    BenderPose.thumb.jpg.16d901245bcd1e6738c28e780b1166da.jpg

     

     

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    Posted (edited) · Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality

    Firstly, Bender costume is outstanding!

     

    Results from the first test with Z-Hop enabled, Resolution of 0.5, Deviation 0.025 at 'Super Quality' and the marks are gone! I'd honestly glossed over Z-Hop due to so many posts saying not to use it due to the mess it can cause, however this is an excellent example of when to.

     

    I ran some more tests and moving the seam also moved where the nozzle exited the tree and rejoined the print resulting in the marks moving when the seam was moved. So that was great learning.

     

    I'm still getting some mess from the seam, however I think I can work out how to fix that or just move it now I know it's not part of the mess that was on the front.

     

    Acceleration was set to 500 by default when I enabled those option. I can drop that further too and see how that goes.

    You reply has kicked me well on the way! I've started reading through gcode, looking for M204 and generally getting familiar with it. I read a helpful reply you made back in 2021 about Make Overhangs Printable and that made a lot of sense.

    I'll set up tests to try out the other options you suggested as well.

     

    THANK YOU very much for all you help. Absolutely the best kind when it fixes the problem as gives the person a heap to go off and expand on.

     

     

    Speed Settings.png

    Edited by Bumbletoon
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    Posted (edited) · Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality

    Thank you.  I try to explain the bottom of the problem so when a person gets something similar they have that base to fall back on.  You can't really fix a problem if you don't understand the problem.

     

    That sort of advice often isn't appreciated (or wanted) by the "I just want to fix it...I don't need to know all that"  crowd.

    My answer to that is "DUUHHH, yes you do".

     

    Everybody blings their printer at least a little bit and I'm no different.  The printer is black and I went with silky copper for the bling.  This is my favorite piece.  Make no mistake...it is just as useful as it looks.

    Like most bling pieces, I was printing and getting to know how silkys differ from regular PLA.  The number one thing is that layer adhesion is pretty poor.  Number 2 is that if it isn't a print that has to be strong, silkys look terrific.

    image.thumb.jpeg.8e383c25e43962acbd21818cb516f7ab.jpeg

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted (edited) · Double Seam? Wayward Tree? Holes in print only on Super Quality

    Printed a follow up part, with trees that were very near the print and it came out much better. Slowed acceleration to 300 and that may have been a bit much / may have injected those layer lines. I'm very happy to play with it until it's consistent and repeatable.

     

    ~ "My answer to that is "DUUHHH, yes you do""

     

    If they don't want to learn it today, the sure will down the track when it pops up again so we might as well learn now. The second I realised it wasn't a, stick plastic string in the top and mash print type of deal, the learning became the project. The printing is a nice byproduct

    And I love your thermal exodus dust management system. I made a thermally controlled extraction system for the enclosure and I wish it looked that fancy!

     

    Edited by Bumbletoon
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