Print Perimiter Not Adhering to Support or Base / Warping Away?

[GregValiant 1,364]

Looking at this zoom...

 

The single-wall support tree doesn't show any the pattern like the multi-walled model does.

Have you tried printing this (at least a partial) in regular PLA?  That might give you more of an indication of where to look whether it's the Cura print settings, or the printer itself.

You've tuned the hot end and there doesn't appear to be any under/over extrusion.  The part is so big that the nozzle takes a long time to get back to any one particular area so I don't think it would be a cooling problem BUT that might be something to look at anyway.

This would be easier to trouble shoot if that pattern had repeated on the support tree.  Intermittent problems are tough.

 

[Slashee_the_Cow 451]

This doesn't help with all the problems (although it might help with some) but I can't help but notice you're being incredibly conservative when it comes to support overhang angle - I usually run PLA at 55°. For something a little weirder like this I might want to knock it down to 50°.

 

Also you should seriously consider getting a new perspective on life. Here's how many places support is required, even at 50°:

It looks even more gruesome from straight below:

 

I think you need to turn this thing on its head...literally.

Yes, that's still a lot of area that needs support... the bottom shot is pretty gruesome again:

But if you do it this way, the support is all on the outside where it's easier to remove. And more visible, I know, but trees can usually come off pretty well (I've done some really intricate stuff with trees, plus it seems like this material is designed to stand up to a bit of aggressive post-processing). And you don't need nearly as much in the first place. And you have a nice, big, solid circle to adhere to the plate instead of a thin ring. This is at 40° too:

Okay, that's still a veritable forest. But the woods aren't nearly as thick. Nor do the trees get anywhere near as tall. Oh, and literally cuts eleven and a half hours and 14% of the material out of the print.

 

Also FWIW if you can pull off 55° overhang this is what the bottom shot looks like for the upside down version:

[Bumbletoon 0]

1 hour ago, GregValiant said:

The single-wall support tree doesn't show any the pattern like the multi-walled model does.

Have you tried printing this (at least a partial) in regular PLA? 

I haven't and really should. I've just printed this little puck cut from the larger print and dropped the temps back to 205 and it's returned the outer wall to smooth. I left cooling at zero for the whole print. However, when it got to the top (image 2) the top layers sagged into the infill. as the top of the print is a large, flat disc that's not going to work.

It's become a real balancing act.

 

[Bumbletoon 0]

1 hour ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:

you should seriously consider getting a new perspective

That is exactly what I'm going to do. I've been trying to avoid printing in any other orientation because I don't want the PEI build plate texture on the top and I've really been trying to avoid support marks on the print. If I was going to print, sand and paint that'd be fine. However I really like the finish of this filament and it's the perfect colour.

So I'm just going to cheat. I'll print the top half and then the underside and glue them. When the print is adhered to the plate it doesn't curl or have any of these problems. It's only with supports. I can fudge the whole rest of the parts of this project by making cuts where no one's really going to see it and just get it done, move on and NEVER use this material again. I know this still means a lot of trees inside, however it's never caused a problem, it's just the edge shrinking and I can negate that. I'd love to push on with this, however the supplier of this PLA is now out of stock and I only have so much left (unsure if they're going to get more) so I think I need to just make it work.

I've learnt a lot from everyone who's commented and it's genuinely fixed a couple of other issues I was having regardless so it's extremely appreciated.

Edited July 25 by Bumbletoon

[jaysenodell 18]

Morning all... 

 

@Bumbletoon, I'm an e3s1p user as well. I'm going to suggesting a change that makes me hurt a little. drop your print speed. I ran into just about all these issues with my e3s1p when making larger prints (1.0mm noz instead of fancy booger string) and the answer to all of it was slowing the machine down. When I moved back to a normal, human noz, it dawned on me that speed was likely more of an issue for this "look ma' it print fast" printers than anything. By slowing things down I've been able to get much better consistency with much less effort. 

 

I recommend testing with a simpler model that approximates the print objects you are fighting with as you test. Simply cyl and cubes don't really help. That said, once you get your e3s1p dialed in they really start to feel nice. In spite of all the creality "why did you do that" quesitons you inevitably wind up asking. 

[Slashee_the_Cow 451]

8 hours ago, jaysenodell said:

That said, once you get your e3s1p dialed in they really start to feel nice. In spite of all the creality "why did you do that" quesitons you inevitably wind up asking.

• Creality, why did you make my E3V3SE ignore acceleration values in gcode and run at maximum acceleration so I had to turn that down on the printer's control panel?
• Creality, why doesn't your interface show M117 messages while printing?
• Creality, why is your firmware so fussy about thumbnails that sometimes it fails to show them even from models sliced in Creality Print?
• Creality, why is your firmware so picky about the order of comments in a gcode file that the Cura developers actually had to slightly change a new feature because it broke the time taken/filament used values?
• Creality, why can my E3V3SE move to negative co-ordinates where it's pushing against the homing switches?
• Creality, why can't you contribute your own printer definitions to Cura so someone doesn't make the E3V3SE do its nose wipe in negative X?
• Creality, why do the load/unload programs in the firmware let you do it at any height, causing hot nozzle and filament to literally melt a hole in the build plate when it happens to do a change really low?
• Creality, why is it I need a 4-16GB SD card to update firmware because the sector size has to be 4096 bytes? (32GB cards require at least 8192 byte sectors)
• Creality, why did the E3V2 Neo I had use a microSD card for both the printer and updating the firmware on the screen, but the E3V3SE requires a full size card for the machine and a microSD card for the screen?
• Creality, why is it that the instructions for updating the firmware on the E3V2 Neo's screen say that the card reader is on the back of the screen's motherboard and are so literally correct that you have to unscrew the back of the unit to get to the card slot on the back of the board?
• Creality, why does the model store in Creality Print use the exact same tactics sleazy mobile phone games do to make you not realise how much money you're actually spending, and force you to spend more than you want?

[jaysenodell 18]

I SAID IN SPITE OF

 

I will also suggest that my favorite spooling manager fixes a lot of that. Mostly becuase it effectively bypasses the creality firmware on the logic board. add the phone app and i don't even need the printer interface anymore (I do nearly all the tuning from the cephalopod). I'm not far from replacing my "on system runout" with an "external runout" to avoid the interface altogether. At that point I'm effectively back to a E3 (no S no 1 no P). 

 

Which is my way of saying, I'm probably building my next set of printers from random parts. 

[Slashee_the_Cow 451]

Given I do most of my printing through OctoPrint, I avoid Creality Print like the plague, I don't give a stuff about thumbnails and I load/unload filament manually, the only really painful parts are the lack of M117 messages (which are unbelievably helpful if you're doing a multicolour print) and learning the hard way about it deciding on its own to go fast enough to win the Daytona 500 if I didn't manually set limits.

 

Although if I hadn't collected so many gadgets and such over the years that I had a spare 16GB microSD card laying around, it'd be pretty annoying because it's almost impossible to buy anything that small these days. And the ones Creality include with their printers last anywhere between 5 minutes and 5 days, if you're really lucky.

 

I have no idea what I'm doing for my next printer. Don't know anywhere near enough to build one. Don't really know much about the printer market between the "it's affordable and it mostly works" Creality and the "it's unaffordable but almost certainly going to give you a top notch experience" UltiMaker price points.

[jaysenodell 18]

23 minutes ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:

painful parts are the lack of M117 messages (which are unbelievably helpful if you're doing a multicolour print)

The plugin "printer display" will make this work for you. I use that and liberally spring m117 throughout my gcode.

 

24 minutes ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:

to go fast enough to win the Daytona 500 if I didn't manually set limits

If I run all the prints from octo local storage, not sd, the e3s1p respects F. if I run from SD the motherf****r seems to think it's a race to waste filament. Is your's ignoring F even for octo local prints?

 

27 minutes ago, Slashee_the_Cow said:

UltiMaker price points.

Basically, I would use a S7 to manufacture stuff but I don't have the business model to support the S7 cost. Between inhouse cnc fixtures and custom boat parts, I think I could eventually pay for it, but the upfront... just too much. The kits for other systems or even one of the products driving development of another popula slicer have a lower entry costs and making the enclosure becomes the biggest hurdle (but then I already have that skill set). There really is a massive gap between "toy" and "undustrial tool" that is missing for those of use that need to do a bit more but aren't funded by Mr Musk or Mr Bezos. 🙂

[Slashee_the_Cow 451]

8 hours ago, jaysenodell said:

The plugin "printer display" will make this work for you. I use that and liberally spring m117 throughout my gcode.

Oh, I use that. But it's just not the same when the message that should be on the printer is on a screen that's five feet away from the printer and not necessarily turned on all the time during long prints. And is often running games instead of looking at the OctoPrint dashboard.

 

8 hours ago, jaysenodell said:

If I run all the prints from octo local storage, not sd, the e3s1p respects F. if I run from SD the motherf****r seems to think it's a race to waste filament. Is your's ignoring F even for octo local prints?

Haven't tested it, TBH. Just lowered the maximum acceleration on the printer. Not like I'll want to accelerate any faster than that just because I'm running it through OctoPrint.

 

8 hours ago, jaysenodell said:

There really is a massive gap between "toy" and "undustrial tool" that is missing for those of use that need to do a bit more but aren't funded by Mr Musk or Mr Bezos. 🙂

I'll worry about that when I can afford a new printer. Late 2027 looks like a potentially realistic goal. If my Ender lives that long.