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rk425

Can't get past initial startup

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I recently purchased an ultimaker kit, I have assembled it and was most impressed with the quality of the kit and how everything went together.

Once the unit was assembled I installed the software: the ReplicatorG 035 build, drivers installed Manually and connected OK.

I had to update the firmware to the Marlin build, this went fine. This is when the following problems started:

1. Attempted to do the motion test as per the Guide: There was no control from the control panel, none of the manual motion controls worked.

2. During several attempts the ReplicatorG would just lock up, and never recover.

3. I then Researched the forums and troubleshooting guides. In the end I wanted to test if it was a problem with ReplicatorG so I installed Cura (3)

4. Cura installed and started, it prompted me for another firmware update (again Marlin) and this completed without any problems.

5. When it started the first time wizard, I centered the print head as instructed and then nothing happened after that.

6. The terminal came up and it keeps giving the temperature of the head as 376 degrees, even though it is still at room temp. Closer inspection of the terminal output shows the following output: Error: MAXTEMP, and something about print-head being deactivated, and having to send m99 command to reset etc??

7. I again went back to the forum and found many people have had the same problem but there was no clear answer or solution, I was left with the opinion that either the thermister was faulty or that the Marlin build has the wrong values for the thermistor properties (scale factors) / type and therefore gets the wrong value.

8. I have checked all the wiring and conductivity with a multimeter, I even swapped out the leads from the print head circuit board to the Ultimaker board to make sure it wasn’t that. Nothing has changed (same 376 degrees reading).

9. To date the printhead has never actually heated up.

10. To check if this was a problem with thermistor in firmware I wanted to check what the error messages if any came up on replicatorG.

11. I tried to connect with replicatorG and it won’t now connect, I tried to redo the firmware update through replicatorG and it starts and then terminates with the message that firmware update was unsuccessful, I have tried this numerous times (I even read that you have to let replicator start, and afterwards then connect the ultimaker USB, I have tried all suggestions from the forum, and I cannot get ReplicatorG to update the firmware and connect anymore.

12. I also purchased the Netfab license but as I found out, the Ultimaker version doesn’t actually provide any USB control.

13. My machine is Win7 64bit, to make sure this wasn’t a 64 bit Vs 32 bit problem (ie Java etc) I have also performed the above on a Win7 32 bit laptop and had the same results.

Could anyone advise on what may work?

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Thanks for the reply: I have checked all the wiring only way it could be a short is if it is within the metal shielded cable or in the head of the thermister. Roughly what resistance should I see accross the open terminals of the Thermister (i.e. removed from machine ). Anyone know what the specs are as I see no part numbers etc?

I have removed the thermister and checked the resistance across it and its 1.2 Ohms @ about 20 degrees, I am guessing it should be alot higher.

Anyone got a partnumber?

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Thanks for the reply: I found on the Ultimaker site that the part number is:

Manufacturer: Epcos

Manufacturer part number: B57540G0104J

This corresponds to a 100K base Thermister (data sheet:

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.co ... 659f28.pdf

)

Why can I not simply measure the resistance at about 25 degrees and compare to the 25 degree rated ohms (100K) for this device?

My understanding is that it is just a resistor which is inversly proportional (non-linear) to temp, at 25 deg it should read 100K but I am reading 1.2 ohms, this would deinitely demonstrate that there is a problem ie a short in the thermister? If this is correct this may even be a good quick check (multimeter) for anyone assembling an ultimaker, prior to assembling the print head?

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I checked it, its 1.2 ohm. Like I said before, plug the arduino in, then measure the voltage between the yellow and black wire, and tell me what it gives.

BTW: Can you give me a picture of your printhead? It is definately NOT the component you showed...

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The temperature sensor in the Ultimaker is not a thermistor but a thermocouple. The info you found it most likely old information during development.

Quick question, just to help you better, did you buy your kit from

https://shop.ultimaker.com/

or from EBay? Because EBay machines are low quality counterfeits. I'm just asking to help you better, not to punish you if you have an EBay kit.

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Hi again,

I noticed that the thermister (now a thermocouple) didnt exactly look like the one in the data sheet, but they are often packed in a metalic case for high temp apps, and it was on the official ultimaker page as a part number. Have you got a part number on the thermocouple?

I did buy it from the Ultimaker shop, not ebay.

voltage between yellow and black leads is 5.39 V

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The voltages at the sensor board leads (measured at back of connector) are:

 

Hi Again,

To get a better idea of the situation I took more voltage readings:

Readings at the Sensor board connector from temp1 lead (from controller)

Red - Black - 3.84v

Black - yellow - 4.97v

Red - Yellow - 1.12v

 

Voltages at the sensor leads (where thermocouple leads screw into screw block)

Yellow - Red - 0.00 V I was not sure if this is just a poor connection onto the terminal blocks, so i disassembled the plastic cover etc and again get 0v from the solder joints for the screw terminal . I hope this clarifies and again thanks for the replies.

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Hi again,

I noticed that the thermister (now a thermocouple) didnt exactly look like the one in the data sheet, but they are often packed in a metalic case for high temp apps, and it was on the official ultimaker page as a part number. Have you got a part number on the thermocouple?

I think the offical thermocouple of the Ultimaker is a custom part, so you cannot easy order a replacement without changing the heaterblock. But mr_seeker should be able to clarify that better.

 

I did buy it from the Ultimaker shop, not ebay.
Good. We know the EBay machines come with cheaper motors and bad laser cutting, but I don't know if the EBay machines come with thermocouples or thermistors. But it could be thermistors to save money. But, that's not your problem :)

Those voltage readings don't seem right. Could you check if the soldering on the thermocouple board are good? sometimes one of the pins on the IC is not properly soldered to the board.

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The voltages at the sensor board leads (measured at back of connector) are:

To get a better idea of the situation I took more voltage readings:

Readings at the Sensor board connector from temp1 lead (from controller)

Red - Black - 3.84v

Black - yellow - 4.97v

Red - Yellow - 1.12v

Voltages at the sensor leads (where thermocouple leads screw into screw block)

Yellow - Red - 0.00 V I was not sure if this is just a poor connection onto the terminal blocks, so i disassembled the plastic cover etc and again get 0v from the solder joints for the screw terminal . I hope this clarifies and again thanks for the replies.

Just to re-iterate what florian said. the thing that measures the temperature in the print head is a thermocouple: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple

at room temperature, you should be able to measure 0.8 millivolt between orange and yellow. between the thermocouple and the UM board is a AD595, which amplifies the signal to the level the arduino can understand (5V=500C, 2V=200C, 0.2V=20C). it is important not to mix up the wires from the thermocouple, if they are reversed (orange/red) the temp measurement goes in the other direction

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Hi Again, per the instruction on the assembly I have "35. Mount the wires from the thermocouple into the thermocouple board. Red wire on the right, yellow wire on the left."

Wires and connections are definitely as per the image in the assembly manual.

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From what I can see, its a short-circuit or the amplifier died. Try disconnecting the sensor, and tell me what you get then between the yellow & black line. If its still the same voltage, then your amplifier fried. You can usually get a free replacement part from UM.

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