owen
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Posts posted by owen
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Thanks for that Joergen, I've been getting a bit of warping just with PLA!
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Today this problem diminished when I printed the same Calibration cylinder at 10 Degrees less (183 Degrees) and nearly vanished at 20 Degrees less (173 Degrees).
When it nearly vanished it didn't occur till the top of the cylinder.
It was only for about 20 Degrees around and a much smaller amount.
The plastic was quite dull but was sticking together OK.
It was about 0.6mm thick instead of the 0.8mm average at the higher temp (193 Degrees) which could be expected.
Maybe if I stepped up the extrusion to make a 0.8mm line at this temp it may be just as bad.
These are the things that change it.
- It's worse at higher speeds.
Worse if pushing out more plastic.
Worse at higher temp.
Less for a bigger circle.
It almost seems centrifugal force related with the above symptoms.
What I don't get is why it doesn't start till part way up the tube. Unless it is somehow Buffer related.
- It's worse at higher speeds.
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keep us updated on what happens owen.
I am very interested to hear what happens.
can you still produce other models using the ultimaker or is this blobbing accuring for every project ?
Ian
It only happens printing the number 7 calibration ring. Which is a small layer, thick and medium speed. If I print the same thing faster it's wore. Pretty sure it's worse if I do it at a higher temp as well. Slower or thinner ring is OK. In order to print that ring I scale it up by 1.5X in the X and the Y and then no problems.
I have tried many different firmwares and checked mechanics and most electronic bits. It doesn't effect about all of my printing so I'm not going to worry about it anymore, though I'll try other things as I think of them.
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can i ask one question.
How long did it take you guys to build the ultimaker?
Thanks.
Ian
13 Hours
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Yeah, you could do that. Usually want quicker access more often than that might provide though.
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Hi
They are fairly quite. I run mine in my shop. Your neighbours probably wouldn't be able to hear it. You could stand it on something soft to pad vibration. Marlin firmware does make it run quieter as does printing slower though I doubt you would need or want to.
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That's actually a good size and amount of detail to print. If you did it using Netfabb on Ultra Quality style the quality should come out quite good.
The tricky bit will be mating plugs into holes. Holes through a horizontal surface come out small so you have to drill them after or make them bigger in your stl file.
It is consistent and repeatable so once you work out your sizes you should get good results.
For what you want to do the trick would be to get it working reliably and if you're able to print at the cooler end of the scale you'll get less stringing.
Then you need to calibrate and then you should be right to go.
I think a lot of us here have the 3D printing as a hobby and are in a cycle of
Improve the Quality, Make it go faster, Make it more reliable, Repeat.
and print something useful now and again. This wouldn't suit you.
Hope this helps.
Owen.
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Well I ran M501 and compared them to the site and I get to this point on the wiki and it says...Below is a matrix of values for various configurations:
[To be done]
nothing... So what are these values supposed to be mine are all default and I'm using sf40+
This is what I've been looking for myself lately. You made me find it. Thanks.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ultimaker/jzFDsHy0XVc/MzVXUxBNlcwJ
This is fairly relevant, maybe write down what your current settings are before trying any changes.
Owen
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Hi
Maybe check all your settings by typing M501 into your RepG and pressing 'Build'
Then check against your settings here http://wiki.ultimaker.com/Marlin_firmware_for_the_Ultimaker
Also check your belts, and X & Y Motor Mounting. I found mine to be loose and jumping the first time I sped up printing.
I find Github a bit confusing too.
I got my last version from Nov. 3 and I have had 1 unexpected slip on the Y.
Hope this helps. Sorry for any obvious stuff you already know.
Owen
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Well I put in a bigger motor and changed EEPROM settings today, shortened and re-routed wiring. Still no change.
I have noticed today that if I let the cylinder print go to the end that at top the blobbing actually occurs before the Z-movement.
So it may be related to X or Y movement.
I will check the couplings on the shafts tomorrow.
Owen
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Thanks again Toni
I put in your settings exactly but still no change.
It also stalled when returning Z to Home so I've gone back to Z80 on the M203
I'll probably try a bigger Motor for the Z Drive next. I'll have to print some of those feet to Raise my UM first though.
I'll keep posting my progress to here.
It's not that critical really.
It will only effect me on the calibration cylinder unless I scale it up in the X and Y or else if I print a vase or similar that is less than 25mm Diameter.
But I guess I have to fix it now at least just to find out what it was.
Owen.
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Some interesting findings there Berend. Could be a simple improvement to Bandwidth alright.
Owen
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Thanks Toni
I did attempt changing the M203 Z setting to 300 but the Z motor made a high pitched noise and stalled.
I tried 200 and I think 100 but was also getting the high pitched noise and stalling.
I have currently it set to 60 but it doesn't fix the problem.
I'll see if I can adjust the stepper driver pot tomorrow to increase that number and see if it helps.
Otherwise I have another big stepper motor that I could replace the Z-motor with, then I'll be able to turn it up for sure.
I'll keep you informed.
Owen
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Hi Owen!
Your Problem reminds me at a problem that I had. I visited Florian (floush) and we came across a problem that NetFabb made Blobs at every? layer at the same position. He told me the solution for MY problem!
First, I have Marlin from github g9f57cdd from the october 16th.
In the firmware the default-Acceleration for z-Axis is set to 150 (DEFAULT_MAX_ACCELERATION).
We raised this value to 300!
You should set the new value with the M203 and store them into EEPROM.
The above mentioned github version has a Bug however -> it doesn't report back the EEPROM-Values, so you should use a later version that is known to work;-))
Then in NetFabb under Ulitmaker/machine settings/General settings you can enter the max z-acceleration of netfab: we changed it from 0.?? to 10m/2^2!!
This solved MY problem of z-Axis-Blobbing.....
Hope this helps a little bit ;-)
Best regards,
Toni
Thanks Tony
My Netfabb setting was right and I changed and saved your suggested settings in the EEPROM. Though M203 was 10 and changing to 300 was too much, so I changed it to 60. If you meant M201 it was 150 but it doesn't report back that it's changed when I send M201 Z300. I also tied changing M205 from Z10 to Z300 but that was too much and I ended changing it to 20. None of this worked. I Uninstalled and cleared Netfabb as per the instructions and replaced all Stepper Drivers to no avail. When I scaled the Cylinder in the X axis only by 1.5 it doesn't start the rough extrusion to a while after the Z move and then settles down again before it gets back around to the next z move (Picture included).
Ultimaker Original+ Press Kit.zip
The X, Y and E Motors are all new and bigger and replaced since I first noticed this. I think it may be in the electronics but I'm still open to ideas if anyone has any thoughts.
Thanks Owen
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I think the stepper driver board or the Z motor is crook.
I have a spare of each so I will try them tonight.
Owen
I put in a new stepper driver and Z motor and no change.
I'm using the latest Marlin firmware with no configuration changes.
I notice that when it happens the X and Y motors stutter as the Z motor steps.
I'm thinking of electronics now. The bottom fan is going and this happens straight after turning on so it doesn't seem heat related.
Anybody got any ideas?
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When printing the cylinder for Netfabb Calibration, printing just the outer skin so basically a single wall tube, I get a big blob when the Z goes up one layer.
For the following half of the layer it is very uneven and thick and then returns to smooth again for the next half before it reaches the next Z move.
It doesn't start till about 6 layers in to the print.
If I print slower it doesn't happen.
Initially I thought it was communication so I printed direct from Netfabb on a different faster machine with the same result.
So I printed a cube with the same circumference (15.7mm sides). Same result.
If I print the same thing slow it's OK.
If I print the cylinder scaled up 3 times in the X and Y it's OK.
So basically it seems to happen if the Z is doing many moves in a given time.
The Z motor feels warm, not hot.
I get a slight change in behaviour if I adjust the pot on the Pololu stepper driver board.
I think the stepper driver board or the Z motor is crook.
I have a spare of each so I will try them tonight.
Just thought I'd put it up here in case someone knows what it is or comes up with the same problem.
Owen
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Great Information!
It looks like all the steppers used for these sorts of projects are about 2.8V, with the amperage increasing with the torque. I wonder if it would be worth it to explore using a higher voltage/lower amp motor? There are also some of these for sale.
The better steppers being used for upgrades appear to all have a torque of about 44, expressed in either g/cm or Ncm. For anyone interested here is an good link for converting torque to a different scale.
http://www.numberfactory.com/nf_torque.html
There are some heavier motors with holding torque as high as 65 or 80, but be cautious of the overall length which increases with more torque. There is only so much room in the ultimaker for the X and Y steppers (about 55mm or a little more), the motors at ~44Ncm seem to all have a length under 50mm so should be a safe bet.
Let us know how your upgrade turned out,
Cheers!
Upgrade went pretty good. I replaced X,Y and Extruder. Motors are running much cooler. I also turned up the jump speeds in Netfabb and I think it's extruding more consistently as well. Not conclusive on performance as I didn't benchmark anything previously but even just the cooler running temp is a good thing.
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Ok here is another question. I have seen many comments that the UM does not have a heat build platform. Do I care? If I do where do I get one. Also in some of the videos I have seen folks applying "paint" to the platform. What is it that they are applying and where do I get it. Sorry I am not the official geek of the family, but I do try to research. I think my eyes are bleeding after spending this much time on the cpu today.
Heatbed isn't so necessary for the UM. Not sure why but it's mentioned somewhere. Also it generally is not necessary for PLA filament. It helps with ABS filament which tends to warp otherwise. There is some talk about making a heatbed for the UM though. I haven't needed one yet. Not sure about paint but generally we put down some sort of masking tape or similar which helps to make the print stick to the bed but able to be removed. A roll of this tape comes with the UM.
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http://ultimachine.com/catalog/print-materials/pla/pla-3mm are good for filament. Fast service, price and material is good.
Digital Callipers, Feeler gages, tweezers, small side cutters are all good accessories.
Got any sisters
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Hi
This is the spec sheet for the ones that were in my UM (Sticker on the side says SY42STH33-1334A), which are bi-polar
http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/pdf/steppermotors/SY42STH33-1334A.pdf
I've got http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/pdf/steppermotors/SY42STH47-1684B.pdf
which I got from http://www.mendel-parts.com/index.php/stepper-motor-nema17-incl-molex-connector.html
By the spec sheet voltage is the same and the current and torque is higher, which is what you want. Having the same step angle is preferable but you can get around this with settings I think.
They have a bit of shaft hanging out the back so they're not ideal but they do fit.
I have tested that they spin when connected and operated from the control panel and am in the process of mounting them.
Hopefully I will be using them tomorrow.
I can let you know how they go if you like.
Let me know if you need any explanation of any part of the spec sheets. I have a basic understanding and did a lot of research yesterday.
I noticed those Motors were out of stock from Ultimachine and was thrilled to find these ones I already have will probably work.
Owen.
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The fills are very uniform with Netfabb. Generally only jumps where necessary to fill another area. I don't think you would be disappointed with Netfabb.
Owen
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Hi,
I use RepG 25 from Windows 7 64 Bit. It's known that you can't extrude from control panel where as you can with RepG 24. You need RepG 25 however if you wish to use the Marlin firmware, which is well worth it. For extrusion you need to do it by hand or start printing something.
Hi guys,to test the forum's functionality I'll add something Ultimaker related :-)
After assembling the Ultimaker on the Fablab Utrecht workshop I encountered a problem during the software configuration steps. I started with Replicator V26 for Ultimaker on my Windows 7 64-bits machine. After making the connection to the machine and setting the limit switches I struggled on the step where the first bits of material are to be extruded.
My extruder head was not heated yet so the software comes up with a warning to check if you're really sure to start the extruder motor. Since I had no material in the tube I clicked yes to test if the motor is working anyway. The motor started running after a short time (not directly after clicking but with only a little lag). When I clicked "stop" in Replicator the motor didn't stop right away but stopped after 2-3 seconds... I tried it out a couple of times more with the same results. I even tried restarting Replicator/ Ultimaker connection/ PC.
Although I felt this was probably not as it was meant to be I decided to heat the head up to 250 degrees Celsius. That worked fine but when the final temperature was reached the extruder motor didn't react anymore no respons at all. I let the head cool down to somewhere below 170 degrees and tried it again. Now it started running again although the lag was still there.
At home I connected the Ultimaker to my iMac with Replicator V25 installed. The same problems showed up... After trying all sorts of things I found a post on Google Groups. He solved the problem by going back to V24. I installed that to my Mac afterwards and now the extruder motor reacts just fine!
My conclusion:
Windows 7 64-bit - Replicator 26: Extruder motor problem
Mac OS Leopard - Replicator 25: Extruder motor problem
Mac OS Leopard - Replicator 24: Extruder problem solved
I'll try my Windows 7 machine with V24 later this week. For now I'll just try to get my first print out through my Mac ;-)
I hope this problem will be tackled in new updates for Replicator and that this was helpfull to anyone encountering the same problem.
Michael
Step By Step Photo Guide to assemble Ultimaker 2011
in Coffee corner
Posted
The wiki was fairly up to date when I made mine but seems much more up to date now. Follow there links and suggestions for firmware and software which will make trouble shooting for you and anyone helping much easier. Follow the instructions carefully and take your time on the build so you put it together firm and square. Keep looking at the wiki, forums etc. in the mean time for any extra heads up. Florian's got a good site for beginners as well. http://techwall.net/
Good luck