UM3e arrived - trouble w. filament grinding/not extruding

[Bossler 8]

So just right before my lunch break the UM3e arrived - good timing, yellow santa;-)

 

Did have some problems with the setup - filament loading did not work.

Had to clean both both print cores before it worked in the end.

Even though I did not do the cold pull it now works.

 

I did not find any guidance how to adjust/check the feeder tension for the UM3 - if somebody has some info?

This really looked a bit "bad":

 

But it is quite loud and makes strange knocking noises during printing.

The knocking is as loud that it transfers via the floor... I can not imagine this to be normal?

 

Can somebody confirm that the UM3 is way louder than the Raise3D N2?

 

Unfortunately I can't upload the audio file I recorded here?

 

The print looks okay so far (still in progress).

But the noise scares me...

Edited January 25, 2018 by Bossler

[Bossler 8]

So now I do have the UM3 5 days over here.

And the frightening thing is - it got way less noisy!

Why frightening?

Because this tells me something has been "worn in".

And worn in parts always wear out somewhen...

So let's put it that way - it is working fine now but I am concerned about how long it will do so...

 

I really do not have a clue what was causing the noise - but I do watch the UM3 closely to find out whether there are any loose parts.

 

What I've seen: the left rear (short) belt was scratching on one of the wires of the Y-endswitch.

This is not very professional, guys from Ultimaker.

You may want to consider a slight change in the way you mount this endswitch resp. the cable... a groove in the housing could help, for instance...

 

As far a the printing performance is concerned so far, this printer is a mixed bag.

It can produce quite nice prints, yes.

The dimensional accuracy is something I need to work on - seems it's overextruding. Even with original Ultimaker-Material - which I would not expect.

After all that's what I paid for - a tested combination of material & machine, right?

 

What also is a bit annoying is the frequent need for cleaning the hot ends.

I am not used to have to clean the nozzles after nearly every print.

That makes this machine a good choice for hobby-printers - but it's advertised as production-type-machine, isn't it?

My suggestions would be to revise the filament unload-procedure.

As I did write in another thread, I have had very good results with pre-heating, pre-loading, and then unloading type of operation.

I've tested that on the UM3 by using the "move" command before unloading and can assure you that this works way better.

As you guys seem to like to automate everything for users convenience I'd suggest to implement this kind of procedure as 
automatic sequence:

Unload Filament = Pre-Heat Printcore; Extrude until <acknowledged by user>; Unload.

 

For loading filaments it would be good to have the option to load a "manual"-material where the user could choose the load temp by the wheel.

Could default to 200°C as a good point to start. 

Would save some time when you prefer to work without the NFC-feature and with "strange materials" like PTEG ...(as I do).

 

So far for now.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Just so's you know, Unless I change types of materials such as PC to PLA or something else with radical heating temps, I rarely have to clean my AA core other than about once a month or so.

 

The BB core is a different story as PVA is so susceptible to any moisture, it can tend to be a bit more bothersome. And, unless I do a print that is about 6 days or so, I do not have to clean after every print on that.

 

I am not sure about the knocking noise. That is new to me. The only time I hear knocks is when the print head is violently shaking during a tight fill. And, that has remained constant. Other than that, I found doing a gazillion retractions can cause a bit of noise too. Not just the beeps.

 

As for the grinding, I am having a hard time believing you could not find anything about that.

 

Basic Google Search...typing time to find only.

 

Digging a bit further for all of two minutes I found this. And this. And this. And I am stopping at this point for that one. There is a bunch more.

 

As for the filament not loading, was it cut with a taper to allow easier guiding?  Was the filament straightened a bit to make sure it did not have any curl that could jam it? And, did you make sure that when you loaded the filament you put it in high enough to see it through the Bowden tube? If not, then it is possible, it caught on the entrance to the tube and started a situation that escalated.

 

What was the feeder tension set to when you got it? Middle? High? Low?

 

So, not a lot of information to go on there. And, for the record, I now have two of these monsters and I can get amazing prints. There are so many variables that can go into getting prints to look nice. But, this is my very first print, vase mode with a Batman statue:

That is a US Quarter for size. No experience with 3D Printing, no idea what I was doing, nothing. Is it a great print? By no means. But is it a great first print for a complete noob, especially compared to what I have seen printed for people by other places, oh, you betcha. And, why so small? Impatience to see my first print and this was done in vase mode with no supports.

Edited January 30, 2018 by kmanstudios
typelexia

[Bossler 8]

10 hours ago, kmanstudios said:

Just so's you know, Unless I change types of materials such as PC to PLA or something else with radical heating temps, I rarely have to clean my AA core other than about once a month or so.

 

The BB core is a different story as PVA is so susceptible to any moisture, it can tend to be a bit more bothersome. And, unless I do a print that is about 6 days or so, I do not have to clean after every print on that.

Well, my experience varies a bit here.

First time loading did not work, I had to clean the print cores first, then it worked.

The clogging was also the reason for the grinding of the filament.

 

Quote

I am not sure about the knocking noise. That is new to me. The only time I hear knocks is when the print head is violently shaking during a tight fill. And, that has remained constant. Other than that, I found doing a gazillion retractions can cause a bit of noise too. Not just the beeps.

As said somewhere else/before:

The printer was very noisy during first prints and became much less noisy in the meantime.

No idea what changed/did wear in.

 

Quote

As for the grinding, I am having a hard time believing you could not find anything about that.

 

Basic Google Search...typing time to find only.

 

Digging a bit further for all of two minutes I found this. And this. And this. And I am stopping at this point for that one. There is a bunch more.

What I meant was some guidance where to set the feeder tension to (low/mid/high; for which material which setting etc.).

It was set to the middle which in general always is a good idea to start, I guess.

But as said above - the issue was not so much the feeder tension but more the clogged print heads.

 

Quote

As for the filament not loading, was it cut with a taper to allow easier guiding?  Was the filament straightened a bit to make sure it did not have any curl that could jam it? And, did you make sure that when you loaded the filament you put it in high enough to see it through the Bowden tube? If not, then it is possible, it caught on the entrance to the tube and started a situation that escalated.

 

What was the feeder tension set to when you got it? Middle? High? Low?

See above;-)

 

Quote

So, not a lot of information to go on there. And, for the record, I now have two of these monsters and I can get amazing prints. There are so many variables that can go into getting prints to look nice. But, this is my very first print, vase mode with a Batman statue:

 

That is a US Quarter for size. No experience with 3D Printing, no idea what I was doing, nothing. Is it a great print? By no means. But is it a great first print for a complete noob, especially compared to what I have seen printed for people by other places, oh, you betcha. And, why so small? Impatience to see my first print and this was done in vase mode with no supports.

Yes, in general it prints quite well.

 

What I need to figure out is how to improve the quality of overhangs.

As stated somewhere else, I hope it is possible to get better undersides of prints than at 
this benchy:

...also notice the "zebra-effect" - already seen that this might be an issue with the stepper drivers but I feel a bit skeptical regarding the proposed solutions ...

Edited January 30, 2018 by Bossler

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Do an overhang test to see where your breakpoint is from clean to gnarly..

 

See your reseller about the clogged cores. That should not happen with a new machine. Someone goofed that up.

 

[tinkergnome 927]

1 hour ago, Bossler said:

What I need to figure out is how to improve the quality of overhangs.

 

...also notice the "zebra-effect" - already seen that this might be an issue with the stepper drivers but I feel a bit skeptical regarding the proposed solutions ...

 

Usually overhangs print better when thicker layers are used. Another point is the raised heat from the buildplate, especially near the bottom of the model.

If possible, print those models on a cold buildplate. This will probably need some other kind of adhesion helpers - like painters tape or the adhesion sheets - but makes a big difference.

 

Regarding the "zebra effect": rotate the model between 15 and 45 degrees around the z-axis (the blue handle in Cura) and the effect should disappear,

see: https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/10226-why-does-my-print-have-tiny-zebra-stripes/?do=findComment&comment=113434

 

[Bossler 8]

Thanks for your tips!

 

Good idea to try a print on a cold build plate.

Since I use 3DLac the prints do stick all too well to the plate anyway, so I guess at least for PLA there's no need to heat the build plate.

This 3DLac-stuff makes the prints stick so well I already broke a printed part while trying to get it off the build plate...

 

Btw., have been using IdeaMaker as slicer before "converting" to Ultimaker.

Within IdeaMaker one can change settings based on print height, which is a great feature.

Am I right that there is no such feature in Cura?

Edited January 30, 2018 by Bossler

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @Bossler !

 

Hope you are well. Good to see you are finding your ways in our community and you are getting the help you are looking for! 

4 hours ago, Bossler said:

It was set to the middle which in general always is a good idea to start, I guess.

 

 

It is also supposed to be on the middle, and no scenario's come to might why you would need to change that. Unless you have material from a different diameter for example. 

About the noise, next time perhaps you can upload a video which also has audio? Or post a link to youtube. What extension was your audio file, I can see if we can make it available. 

Was the noise consistent throughout the whole print, or just during the beginning?

 

I also don't think it is necessary to clean your AA print cores every other print, if the material stays the same. You might want to keep a closer look on BB as @kmanstudios suggested. PVA is a much more sensitive material, and likelier to burn in your nozzle. 

 

In the case of the overhangs on that benchy, I am inclined to think that it is heat radiation from your build plate. Since you print with PLA, the heat might influence your overhang. You could reduce the heat, but make sure you don't lose too much of its adhesive power. (You can add blue tape or a thin line of glue stick to compensate). (ah, I see @tinkergnome also suggested this). 

 

The 3DLac is a spray right? Are you spraying your build plate outside of your Ultimaker? I don't think you want to add regularly cleaning your rods on top of your print cores (plus, it is not good for your rods either). 

 

What do you mean with 'change settings based on print height, which is a great feature'? In Ultimaker Cura Beta we just introduced an adaptive layer height feature which might be worth exploring

 

 

[Bossler 8]

1 hour ago, SandervG said:

Hi @Bossler !

 

Hope you are well. Good to see you are finding your ways in our community and you are getting the help you are looking for! 

Thanks, Sander!

All good so far, hope for you too.

 

1 hour ago, SandervG said:

It is also supposed to be on the middle, and no scenario's come to might why you would need to change that. Unless you have material from a different diameter for example. 

I left it there and as said, the issue was due to the PrintCores clogged with filament, not due to any problem with the feeder.

 

1 hour ago, SandervG said:

About the noise, next time perhaps you can upload a video which also has audio? Or post a link to youtube. What extension was your audio file, I can see if we can make it available. 

Was the noise consistent throughout the whole print, or just during the beginning?

The recording is an m4a-file.

The noise was similar to the z-axis making adjustments (active leveling) but way louder.

As said earlier, it has already been getting way less noisy. 

 

1 hour ago, SandervG said:

 

I also don't think it is necessary to clean your AA print cores every other print, if the material stays the same. You might want to keep a closer look on BB as @kmanstudios suggested. PVA is a much more sensitive material, and likelier to burn in your nozzle. 

Agreed. Just finished three prints without cleaning "in a row";-)

 

 

1 hour ago, SandervG said:

The 3DLac is a spray right? Are you spraying your build plate outside of your Ultimaker? I don't think you want to add regularly cleaning your rods on top of your print cores (plus, it is not good for your rods either). 

Yes, it's a spray and for sure I do spray the build plate outside the printer.

(but thanks for the warning anyway;-)

And again - I am really impressed how that stuff makes the prints stick to the build plate.

Actually I am thinking how I can lessen the sticking effect a bit since it's already a bit too much;-)

 

1 hour ago, SandervG said:

What do you mean with 'change settings based on print height, which is a great feature'? In Ultimaker Cura Beta we just introduced an adaptive layer height feature which might be worth exploring

 

Will certainly investigate into the beta again.

Within the referenced slicer you can set a certain height (layer) and then specify nearly any parameter and set it's value.

So you can change layer height, build-plate or nozzle temp and much more depending on the layer height.
Quite versatile and useful.