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Really bad print results. Pls help


Zarkhowler
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Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help

I printed this dog yesterday in shiny green pla and I accidentally snapped it but if you look in the image it has terrible print quality. It also does the same thing for other parts of the model. printed of an ender 3. Any help would be appreciated!

 

PXL_20211001_201053268.jpg

PXL_20211001_201255053.PORTRAIT.jpg

PXL_20211001_201151776.jpg

PXL_20211001_201114142.jpg

Edited by Zarkhowler
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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    Once you get things to stick to the bed, the number one problem becomes extrusion.  If you haven't done it yet - calibrate your E-steps.  When the printer is asked to extrude 100mm of filament it needs to move 100mm of filament.  Most Enders need this done and there are a lot of videos out there.

    The second thing is the mechanicals.  The 3 axes need to be perpindicular to each other (not just "close enough") and the belts and wheels need to be adjusted for easy movement with no wobbling of the print head or skipping of teeth on the belts.

    If you want to post a 3mf file of your project you can load a model and set up Cura for slicing and then use "File | Save Project" to create a 3mf file and post it here.  Somebody will take a look.

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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help
    14 hours ago, GregValiant said:

    Once you get things to stick to the bed, the number one problem becomes extrusion.  If you haven't done it yet - calibrate your E-steps.  When the printer is asked to extrude 100mm of filament it needs to move 100mm of filament.  Most Enders need this done and there are a lot of videos out there.

    The second thing is the mechanicals.  The 3 axes need to be perpindicular to each other (not just "close enough") and the belts and wheels need to be adjusted for easy movement with no wobbling of the print head or skipping of teeth on the belts.

    If you want to post a 3mf file of your project you can load a model and set up Cura for slicing and then use "File | Save Project" to create a 3mf file and post it here.  Somebody will take a look.

    DogWCube.3mf

    Here is the file I'm trying to print. I'll do all of those things and will see where that gets me. I'll post result in the forum Thanks!

    DogWCube.3mf

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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    One thing about troubleshooting 3d prints is that there can be multiple problems that overlap each other.  Each needs to be handled in turn.

    It sounds like you took care of the under-extrusion.  I think the next thing is to revisit the belt tension.  Those "steps" on the handle on the dogs back look like the belt skipped.  The belts should "twang like a guitar string".

     

    You did a File | Export which creates a model file (as opposed to a File | Save Project which is also a 3mf file but includes you printer and all your settings).  So the DogWbox.3mf is just the model and I don't know how you set up the slice.  There is one thing that comes to mind though.  Under "Travel" there is a setting for "Retraction Minimum Travel" which for that model should be set at 2 to 3mm.

     

    I'm attaching a gcode file that prints fine on my Ender 3 Pro.  I am also attaching a 3mf file of the project.  When you open a 3mf file that is a Project File you will be prompted about altering your printer, or adding a new printer.  Always choose "Add New" or you can get unwanted changes in things like your start gcode (if you have customized it).  You can always delete the new printer when you get done playing around.

     

     

    GVDogWbox.gcode GVDogWbox.3mf

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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help
    2 hours ago, GregValiant said:

    One thing about troubleshooting 3d prints is that there can be multiple problems that overlap each other.  Each needs to be handled in turn.

    It sounds like you took care of the under-extrusion.  I think the next thing is to revisit the belt tension.  Those "steps" on the handle on the dogs back look like the belt skipped.  The belts should "twang like a guitar string".

     

    You did a File | Export which creates a model file (as opposed to a File | Save Project which is also a 3mf file but includes you printer and all your settings).  So the DogWbox.3mf is just the model and I don't know how you set up the slice.  There is one thing that comes to mind though.  Under "Travel" there is a setting for "Retraction Minimum Travel" which for that model should be set at 2 to 3mm.

     

    I'm attaching a gcode file that prints fine on my Ender 3 Pro.  I am also attaching a 3mf file of the project.  When you open a 3mf file that is a Project File you will be prompted about altering your printer, or adding a new printer.  Always choose "Add New" or you can get unwanted changes in things like your start gcode (if you have customized it).  You can always delete the new printer when you get done playing around.

     

     

    GVDogWbox.gcode 1.53 MB · 0 downloads GVDogWbox.3mf 1.4 MB · 0 downloads

    Sorry I'll include the profile and will tension the belts. I'll also tighten any loose screws. I'll try to print a dog with these changes but I did experiment and the problem didn't look like skipped steps as when I reduced the flow the arch came out perfect. The head of the dog might require some more tweaking of flow but I think I can get there. 

    Edited by Zarkhowler
    Had to add extra info
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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help

    Another thing to check is for Z binding.  It occurs on Creality printers for a couple of reasons...

    When the Z motor mount doesn't align the centerline of the motor shaft precisely with the brass drive nut on the extruder mount.  The usual fix is to shim the motor mount (I ended up with 0.3mm of shim).  This problem is usually characterized by layers in the first 5mm or so that look compressed.  After Auto-Homing the printer, carefully measure the distance between the Z rod to the Z upright down as far as you can and again near the top of the Z rod.  The distance should be the same.  The Z rod and the Z upright should be parallel.

    A second reason can be that the Z wheels are too tight.  You should just be able to turn any of the bogie wheels on the printer with two fingers.

    A third reason is that the X beam isn't tight on the left end.  It rocks a bit as it goes up and this can lead to herky-jerky Z movement.  This one is a pain because the two screws that hold the X beam to the left bracket can only be accessed when the X beam assembly is slid off the top of the machine.

     

    Here is the poor dog in pink.  My exacto knife is out in the garage and I'm too lazy to go get it so Fidette isn't groomed.

    DSCN2694.JPG

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    Wow that's a nice dog lol. I reduced the flow to 40% as I'm printing at 0.08 layer heights 16332825288264657155556930372876.thumb.jpg.0fa8bf558f6d4ccadd6ab19ec2d26ba5.jpgand I've gotten this result on just the head.

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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help

    Curiously, 1mm of 2.85mm filament = 6.379mm³ and 1mm of 1.75mm filament = 2.405mm³.  2.405/6.379 = 37.6% which is real close to your 40% flow.

    So in Machine Settings check the filament diameter for your extruder.  Also check the "Diameter" setting in "Printer Settings" which I think has to be loaded from the MarketPlace.

    When Volume of Filament = Volume of Extrusion then Flow is 100%.  You can see that if your flow is set to 40% that something isn't right.  Your E-Steps should have ended up somewhere between 93 and 100.

     

     

     

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help
    41 minutes ago, GregValiant said:

    Curiously, 1mm of 2.85mm filament = 6.379mm³ and 1mm of 1.75mm filament = 2.405mm³.  2.405/6.379 = 37.6% which is real close to your 40% flow.

    So in Machine Settings check the filament diameter for your extruder.  Also check the "Diameter" setting in "Printer Settings" which I think has to be loaded from the MarketPlace.

    When Volume of Filament = Volume of Extrusion then Flow is 100%.  You can see that if your flow is set to 40% that something isn't right.  Your E-Steps should have ended up somewhere between 93 and 100.

     

     

     

    My e steps are actually 104.9 and I've never had this problem before. I'm using 1.75 mm pla filament with a 0.4 mm nozzle

    Edited by Zarkhowler
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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    CE3_GVDogWbox.3mf This is my profile

    CE3_GVDogWbox.3mf

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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    My printer is an Ender 3 Pro.  Close enough to yours for comparison.  I keep it tuned both by force of habit, and because it's important for what I do around here to at least seem like I know what I'm doing.

     

    That being said, I sliced and printed the dog using your profile.  It's bloody awful.  Rather than forcing myself to watch as it butchered that poor dog, I've aborted it.  Flow on the walls was almost non-existent.  What I have is a swiss cheese dog.

     

    My suggestion is to go back and look at the printer one more time.  Some of your settings (Wall Flow and Bed Temperature come to mind as do a initial layer line width of 130% and an initial layer speed of 5mm/sec) are far from mainstream.  It has the look that you were trying to compensate for things via the gcode rather than dialing in the printer itself.  In particular - an initial bed temperature of 78° is way too hot.  I run the bed at 50° and looking at the requirements for PLA you will find that it does not require a heated bed at all.  The hot bed could be the main reason your initial layers look squished.  If you are having trouble with initial layer adhesion to the bed then hairspray or a glue stick are better choices.  It is also a better choice to kick up the initial layer flow rather than the line width.  You are also asking for 1mm of extra prime after each retraction.  That is 75mm worth of extrusion at a .08 layer height and should not be necessary.

     

    I write a bit of code and I've attached a little Windows program I wrote for controlling the printer from the computer.  It does require a USB data connection.  Your installation of Cura should have loaded the Arduino driver for USB to Serial communication.  It doesn't support sending a print over the USB but rather controls printing via the SD card by sending commands over the USB.  Along with leveling commands there is an E-Step calculator included.  With the USB plugged in - just enter the bed size in the MaxX and MaxY boxes, click the Open Port button, and the rest is pretty self-explanatory.

    Here is the download link to Google Drive.

    Greg's SD Print Tool

     

    This is the start of a swiss cheese dog.  I think "Abort" is the correct word used correctly.

    DSCN2696.thumb.JPG.9d250749919ac2bb02110ac0683f0a55.JPG

     

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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help
    35 minutes ago, GregValiant said:

    My printer is an Ender 3 Pro.  Close enough to yours for comparison.  I keep it tuned both by force of habit, and because it's important for what I do around here to at least seem like I know what I'm doing.

     

    That being said, I sliced and printed the dog using your profile.  It's bloody awful.  Rather than forcing myself to watch as it butchered that poor dog, I've aborted it.  Flow on the walls was almost non-existent.  What I have is a swiss cheese dog.

     

    My suggestion is to go back and look at the printer one more time.  Some of your settings (Wall Flow and Bed Temperature come to mind as do a initial layer line width of 130% and an initial layer speed of 5mm/sec) are far from mainstream.  It has the look that you were trying to compensate for things via the gcode rather than dialing in the printer itself.  In particular - an initial bed temperature of 78° is way too hot.  I run the bed at 50° and looking at the requirements for PLA you will find that it does not require a heated bed at all.  The hot bed could be the main reason your initial layers look squished.  If you are having trouble with initial layer adhesion to the bed then hairspray or a glue stick are better choices.  It is also a better choice to kick up the initial layer flow rather than the line width.  You are also asking for 1mm of extra prime after each retraction.  That is 75mm worth of extrusion at a .08 layer height and should not be necessary.

     

    I write a bit of code and I've attached a little Windows program I wrote for controlling the printer from the computer.  It does require a USB data connection.  Your installation of Cura should have loaded the Arduino driver for USB to Serial communication.  It doesn't support sending a print over the USB but rather controls printing via the SD card by sending commands over the USB.  Along with leveling commands there is an E-Step calculator included.  With the USB plugged in - just enter the bed size in the MaxX and MaxY boxes, click the Open Port button, and the rest is pretty self-explanatory.

    Here is the download link to Google Drive.

    Greg's SD Print Tool

     

    This is the start of a swiss cheese dog.  I think "Abort" is the correct word used correctly.

    DSCN2696.thumb.JPG.9d250749919ac2bb02110ac0683f0a55.JPG

     

    What are your thoughts for my e steps? I was wondering what was wrong with my printer when you said 93 to 100 but mines clocked all the way up to 104.9. This is abnormal and me having to use 40% flow is wierd. I will do another e step calibration but please tell me why my numbers are so high. It even extrudes 100 mm if plastic perfectly. The rest is pretty helpful but I have a glass plate and don't want to get it dirty with glue stick. I use 78 cause it ensures no screw ups and it can be done with the printer. I guess I can reduce it but will keep it around 65 c. The line width also helps with adhesion according to my Experiance. Also the 1 mm was default. I can change it to 0. The 5 mm sec is just there just in case I start a print and walk away from it and leave it alone.  Also lol that dog looks scary. 40% worked fine for me. Lol  my e step numbers really messed up

    Edited by Zarkhowler
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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    E-steps are "mm's of filament" right?  The E numbers in a gcode file are mm's of filament.  

    I have the Creality glass plate and I print on the coated side.  I clean it with dish soap, place it on the bed, and wipe it down with isopropyl alcohol in case of fingerprints.  It is going on 2 years and it's fine.

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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    Ok I'll try adding glue stick. Also my numbers were whack. My steps per mm were 108.9 and after calibrating it was 96.3 huge difference. Lemme print some .8 walls to figure out what flow I should print at

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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help

    Somewhere around here is a really excellent rant of mine regarding wall calibration cubes.  It boils down to this:  Once the E-steps are calibrated you are done.  When any slicer calculates the amount of filament required for a particular extrusion it can only use a rectangle for the calculation.  With a single or double wall calibration cube the filled area is unconstrained on at least one side and so there is no way the shape being filled can be a rectangle.  That's why it is my considered opinion that calibrating mm³ by measuring the width of a wall is at least silly and at worst totally misleading.  Calculate the E-steps correctly and then read the print.

    The first silent board I bought for my printer lasted 4 days and then the E driver died.  My E-steps were all over the place and there was no way to calibrate them (I'm talking E-steps near 300!!).  Creality finally fessed up after two months and sent me a new board which has been fine since.

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help
    26 minutes ago, GregValiant said:

    Somewhere around here is a really excellent rant of mine regarding wall calibration cubes.  It boils down to this:  Once the E-steps are calibrated you are done.  When any slicer calculates the amount of filament required for a particular extrusion it can only use a rectangle for the calculation.  With a single or double wall calibration cube the filled area is unconstrained on at least one side and so there is no way the shape being filled can be a rectangle.  That's why it is my considered opinion that calibrating mm³ by measuring the width of a wall is at least silly and at worst totally misleading.  Calculate the E-steps correctly and then read the print.

    The first silent board I bought for my printer lasted 4 days and then the E driver died.  My E-steps were all over the place and there was no way to calibrate them (I'm talking E-steps near 300!!).  Creality finally fessed up after two months and sent me a new board which has been fine since.

    Ok I have calibrated it and now I'm printing the dogs head cause printing everything at once is too much for me. I just need to know that the dogs head will print alright

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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help
    23 hours ago, GregValiant said:

     

    Thanks so much for your help. I finally got good results 16333943452658281136288084544115.thumb.jpg.de7cad5b40352c794d4e86358a74a87c.jpg

    There's a bit of stringing but Im printing a retraction tower to fix that. Thanks again!

    Edited by Zarkhowler
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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help

    Just for reference - for general PLA I ended up at 5mm distance at 35mm/sec retract and prime.  For silkies I go to 6mm at the same speeds.  I print TPU with no retraction (I'm happy so long as the gaskets I print don't leak).  PETG is the tough one and "I guess that will have to do" is the best I've gotten.

    That dog has gotten much better.  I think you've gotten it down to just needing a couple of tweaks.  That will come with experience.

    Edited by GregValiant
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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help
    2 hours ago, GregValiant said:

    Just for reference - for general PLA I ended up at 5mm distance at 35mm/sec retract and prime.  For silkies I go to 6mm at the same speeds.  I print TPU with no retraction (I'm happy so long as the gaskets I print don't leak).  PETG is the tough one and "I guess that will have to do" is the best I've gotten.

    That dog has gotten much better.  I think you've gotten it down to just needing a couple of tweaks.  That will come with experience.

    Ok I'll use these settings to print another dog and see where that gets me. If the stringing remains I'll probably upgrade the ptfe tube to Capricorn tubing.

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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help

    Ok so lots of stringing I'll upload pics of the dog once it's done printing. 4mm retractions with 10 mm retraction speed. as tests indicate

    Edited by Zarkhowler
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    Posted (edited) · Really bad print results. Pls help

    16334900498103370917377973461308.thumb.jpg.6e05719b683183846537eb5e7c67f4ae.jpg

    Lotsa stringing 

    Pls help

    Edited by Zarkhowler
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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    Any advice?

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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    I can't remember your print temperature but once you hit 215° PLA can get pretty stringy.

    It's the stock Bowden setup?  Then I would kick the retraction distance up to 6 and the speed to 40.

    Open the gcode file in a text editor like Notepad and add:

    M203 Z45

    M500

    Right before ";LAYER:0".   That will set the Max Z speed to 45 and the printer will save it to memory.  You only need to do that once.

     

    That app I posted has a textbox that shows the printer responses to "sent" commands.  The main one is M503 that the printer responds to with all the main settings it has in EEPROM (or saved to the SD on a 4.2.x board).

    You are down to fine tuning and making progress.

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    Posted · Really bad print results. Pls help

    I'm printing at 195 deg C and will see if that helps through a retract tower. 

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