Colorfabb PLA/PHA troubles

[CheaT 1]

Hi all

I bought some spools of colorfabb PLA/PHA because i read here it should be one of the best filaments.

Now, I have on nearly all printed parts huge warping on the corners with the shining silver one.

I print with standard settings for PLA on the glass plate with gluestick and brim (20 lines), 20mm/sec for top and bottom, shape on 30mm/sec and infill 40mm/sec. I also tried capton tape but the adhesion is not very constant, sometimes it is very good and then it turns to very bad.

Does anyone have an idea how I can improve the adhesion on the glass plate and remove the warping? It looks very ugly on the assembled parts :(

I also have a 2.2kg spool of black and a 750gr spool of white colorfabb PLA/PHA. Is there a difference between these materials?

Sry, I am very new on this kind of 3D-printers, I used to print on a Stratasys BST the last 4 years

Thx in advance

CheaT

[yellowshark 153]

Hi CheaT, it could help if you posted a pic so we can understand the size and shape of the model. As I understand it you have only had the problem with the shiny silverfilament - have you tried the black and the white too? If not I would try one of the other colours with the same settings and model.

Yes the spools are different; they have different dyes to create the colours and the dyes can impact - but I have not seen the impact to affect bed adhesion, it can affect optimum extruder temp.

Is the first layer adhesion good? If that is poor then redo your levelling as you may not have the optimum distance between nozzle and glass plate. You do not say what your bed temp is?; personally I would use 65 but really 60-70(max) is OK, some people go a bit cooler. Personally I have always used hairspray; some people use sludge made from the glue.

[yellowshark 153]

... and yes ColorFabb is one of the best.

[CheaT 1]

You do not say what your bed temp is?; personally I would use 65 but really 60-70(max) is OK, some people go a bit cooler. Personally I have always used hairspray; some people use sludge made from the glue.

 

Thx for your answers yellowshark

My temperatures are the standart setting for PLA, 210°C on the hotend and 60°C on the bed.

This is a picture of the part after it was finished:

*Edit* the capton tape is on the rear side of the glass plate , so i can easily switch the plate after material change

The edge which points to the front of the printer had an extreeme warp of ~1 mm

I have no detailed pictures of the warp problem at hand because I'm currently in the office

*Edit*

I don't know if it helps, the layer height was 0.2 mm. And yes, i already tried the black material, but only for test parts because the roll is too big for my um2+ (it's the 2.2kg roll) and I will test if it works to print when i put a 50 cm long piece of bowden tube on the material before i insert it in the feeder and wrap in on the roll

Edited February 12, 2016 by Guest
additional information

[neotko 1,417]

Kapton tape and PLA don't work

PLA = Blue painters tape

ABS= Kaptop tape for extra grip

For PLA = Glass + Heat or Glass + Heat + Some glue (hairspray, etc etc etc )

For PLA without hotbed = Painters Tape + cold Glass

[CheaT 1]

Kapton tape and PLA don't work

PLA = Blue painters tape

ABS= Kaptop tape for extra grip

For PLA = Glass + Heat or Glass + Heat + Some glue (hairspray, etc etc etc )

For PLA without hotbed = Painters Tape + cold Glass

 

good to know, thx

Where can I get this blue painters tape? Just walk into a craftsman store and buy, or do I have to order it somwhere in the internet?

[neotko 1,417]

You can find this almost anywhere, specially on amazon. 3m scotch blue, it's the best one as far as I know. But I think other brands should work (but they might last less prints).

[CheaT 1]

how many times can I print on this before I need to change it?

[neotko 1,417]

Probably some hardcore user from the umo without hotbed times can answer that. But probably on the 5-6times. Also if one band breaks you can just replace the broken part.

Anyhow, if you do 50C and use a little bit of hairspray, it sticks perfect and pops at 34-30C

To apply hairspray, if you want to be able to take it out at 35-40C what I do it's use a paper towel (kitchen style) apply some window cleaner on the paper, and then I apply 1 very tinny 1 Push (very short) of the hairspray on the paper, then I use that to clean the coldglass. Works everytime like a charm. If you use spray, don't overdoit, it might stick a bit too much.

Also if your um2 glass it's new, it should stick pretty much perfectly with just 60C and no glue or anything. In my experience the glass losses stickyness around 6months of intense use. Also if you really wait for it to cold down the glass sticky-ness will last longer.

Basically, the PLA while hot (sugar based) expands and crystals filling the glass pores, like little tinny cat claws. If you take the printed part by force, you break that pores day by day, and in the end you have a glass that has lost it's perfect adhesion. For that, hairspray does wonders. But on my umo+ with new glasses I don't need to use hairspray or glue at all.

[CheaT 1]

so, in theory i can just start the print, but move the bed temp down to 50°C?

yes, the glass is only a month old, i got my um2+ since 13th of january

and to apply hairspray, you say a kitchen paper towel with window cleaner and a little push of hairspray and clean the cold glass with, right?

BtW which tape shall i buy, there are 3 different types:

[yellowshark 153]

My process is - warm the glass to 65c;rremove and spray a very light coat of extra strength hairspray to the bed (or relevant part of the bed); wait 20 secs; apply a similar 2nd very light coat; place glass back onto bed and wait for it to get back to 65.

Note: it is probable that your UM heat sensor is measuring the temp of the print bed not the glass. When you bed temp reaches you designated temp., the glass will be at least 10c cooler. Also it may well be that your bed temp sensor is measuring the centre area of the bed, not the perimeter areas and they may well be 5c+ cooler (only relevant if you have a large piece). It is just easier all round to use a digital thermometer to check your glass temp before starting

[CheaT 1]

ok, sounds feasible

does the hairspray have to include something (i heard gluesticks work only if they include PVA) or can i buy the cheapest one?

[cloakfiend 995]

Color Fabb is the one to use in my opinion. Ive been using it exclusively for about a year and a half now with zero issues, lovely consistency, and i know a place to get it cheap ;)like $20 a roll! Cant beat it. Also all their filament seem to print at the same settings which is nice, apart from a few which are a touch more runny but its really negligable and will print great at the same temps. Works great with high and low res as well, im using 0.04 at the mo and it looks great. You also need to find the right glue, or hairspray, i personally use the silver version of prit stik called prit stik power, but each to his own. I,ve been using the same application of glue for about 3 months now, you can even tell i havent re applied from the pictures ive posted! Lol.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Guest

[CheaT 1]

i tried four gluesticks until i found one which works. i can buy it for 3.50€/20g in our local craftsman store

how did you apply your glue, on the cold or heated bed?

i can print approxx. three times on the same glue, then the parts start to warp extreme, as bigger they are

[neotko 1,417]

That's what I do yes. Original should work, it's the one I have, but I only use that for very hard prints where I have overhangs very close to the bed.

[cloakfiend 995]

Always apply glue stone cold just like ABS juice. I learnt that during my ABS days. dont know about hairspray as ive not tried it yet. I also never use brim, or have ever used it, glue is enough and im not a fan of wasting time printing extra stuff. I also rarely use supports, but of course its unavoidable at times.

P.S. Dont apply the glue on the bed when it is still attached, and most importantly learn to take it off and on without disturbing the levelling, trust me you'll thank me for this later.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Guest

[yellowshark 153]

I do no think the hairspray needs anything special, except I was told to use extra strength. I use the L'Oreal brand. I have no idea whether the cheapest works just as well, but there is one way for you to find out

[puremoco 15]

I also use Colorfabb PLA/PHA a lot and wonder why you have warping issues.

I always use Kapton tape and only replace it when there a some damages.

My prints stick very well to the Kapton, sometimes I have to use a lot of force if it is a larger object.

You might check your bed leveling and decrease the distance between nozzle and bed. Also make sure, you print the first layer at slow speed.

Nozzle temp: 230-240°C

Bed temp: 50°C

There might be also a difference between each color. I only use standard black and white and there is definitely a difference in printing behaviour...

[cloakfiend 995]

My bed temp is always 60. I have my fans on full the entire time. Almost everything else is default. I have trouble printing at .2 sometimes, but its just lack of experience as im used to printing much higher.

[yellowshark 153]

Nozzle temp: 230-240°C

Bed temp: 50°C

 

I am sorry, I do not like to contradict a post but 230/240 is way too high for PLA/PHA; maybe if you are printing .300 layers at 200mm/s. But if the speed is 30-40mm/s, as stated above, even with a layer height of .300 you probably do not need to go above 210. Colorfabb state a max of 220

[cloakfiend 995]

Agreed. I cant remember ever using anyhthing above 210 lately at 30/50mms. Even for 0.2 layer heights. If you are being forced to print that hot its time to do some atomic pulls. 240 is far too hot at low flow speeds. Printing with PLA slow at 240 = mess.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Guest

[CheaT 1]

I will try another print with capton tape, but i will degrease it first to get better adhestion.

For my calibration, i use this "Ultimaker calibration card"-papersheet which was in the box with the exchangeable nozzles - shall i switch to a normal sheet of paper because i don't have anything else at home wich could be usable :/

maybe this will help..

[yellowshark 153]

You need someone knowledgeable to answer that. I presume that as it is described as card it is thicker than paper; i.e. probably at least 0.2mm thick. I also presume that the firmware has been changed to cater for this so that the home measurement is adjusted by ~0.2mm rather than 0.1mm. If so using paper will not work effectively. But I neither designed the card nor modified the firmware

[CheaT 1]

I calibrate the build plate frequently all 4-5 days to avoid adhesion problems, but it looks like it is a waste of time because the part's warp so massively anyway :angry:

hopefully it works with degreased capton tape...

[yellowshark 153]

Once you have the bed calibrated successfully you should not need to calibrate it again for a long time. I last calibrated my bed about a year ago. But you will, probably, need to calibrate your bed if you change your nozzle. I have also read of people needing to recalibrate when changing filament type. That is not something I have experienced but I can imagine that that may be necessary, as different filament types can have different flow characteristics.