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Issues with 1.75mm UM2+ extended

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Hi, i'm having troubles using a custom 1.75mm extruder. I bought a kit (see pics below) that has everything needed for 1.75mm. Even a 2mm bowden tube.

extruder.thumb.jpg.a36c03140edd8d8832cb5e3a475bd934.jpg

Settings: i found out the best setting to print my filaments (makerparts 1.75mm) is this

 

  • 46% Flow
  • 200° temp
  • 7.5mm retraction

 

The results are this

At first you get a clean first layer, but every time the extruder passes above the layer, you get a small line (see pic), after 3 or 4 layers of printing, the results are worse like the last image and you have to abort the process because the nozzle is "hitting" the 3d printing making a weird sound.

01.thumb.jpg.e3e9d68fe4471da571e33ac7a1a0749a.jpg

02.thumb.jpg.c5dc004b088b29b04f008bad9f142d52.jpg

03.thumb.jpg.b0d87280d44ee31a9967f94a446b12ce.jpg

I tried:

 

  • lowering the temp or using more temp
  • changing flow setting only get matter worse
  • setting more than 8mm of retraction doesn't change anything. Less than 7mm you get the last image in the first layer

 

The feeder that i am using is a Chinese one (it works, i don't think is the bestIMG_20170419_042626.thumb.jpg.102371288d131d1d86ee17a5822d96ca.jpg).

Anyone has the same problem?

extruder.thumb.jpg.a36c03140edd8d8832cb5e3a475bd934.jpg

01.thumb.jpg.e3e9d68fe4471da571e33ac7a1a0749a.jpg

02.thumb.jpg.c5dc004b088b29b04f008bad9f142d52.jpg

03.thumb.jpg.b0d87280d44ee31a9967f94a446b12ce.jpg

IMG_20170419_042626.thumb.jpg.102371288d131d1d86ee17a5822d96ca.jpg

Edited by Guest

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And if he didn't play with the esteps, 46% sounds pretty high? Or is it me?

Edit: Hah. By high I of course mean low.

Anyway, you should definitely get your esteps right - do a 100mm extrusion and find out how much you're actually getting pushed through

Edited by Guest

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Is there any tutorial or guide calibrating the steps?

EDIT: Hi, i just tested the tinkergnome firmware (V16.08.2 stable version). Great firmware with a lot of settings, too shame i have this issues:

 

  1. I don't know why, the heater began to behave erratically: i set the temperature to 190° and it offsets to 220°. After that it began to descend to 208° and then it rises to 220°. I tried the auto PID in temperature control, it heats so fast that i get an error of temperature too high. I tried lowering the PID manually and i still have the same problem. I didn't have any temperature issue with UM2+extended original firmware.
  2. I lowered the steps of the feeder to 200 (from 369 something like that). I still have the same problem: every time the extruder passes above the layer, you get a small line, like a cut to the print.
  3. I set a factory reset, recalibrate the hot bed level again, and printed 3 times again.
    Lowering the flow to 60% get's a better result but i still have the same problem (the cut in the print).

 

temp_offset.thumb.jpg.a02e926c0e409f442fa83211d0f91a87.jpg

I don't know what else to tried. It's not like it's not printing, it's just that i tried all the possible solutions and still without an answer.

temp_offset.thumb.jpg.a02e926c0e409f442fa83211d0f91a87.jpg

Edited by Guest

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New results, just tested the Tinker V17.02.1 PRERELEASE

The results are the same, i set the temperature to 190 and i get a 210, when it lowers to below 200, i rises again to 210. Auto PID doesn't work.

Printing has still the same issues.

What i did: factory reset, bed leveling, change feeder step, change temp, change retraction, change flow.

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Hey great response from everyone! I can see why everyone likes ultimaker (me included), it's because you got a huge community helping you with every problem you have.

Tinkergnome firmware: still having the same temperature problem with the stable version and the new version. I will try again later with the PID. How do you set PIO 0 in the firmware? Do i have to send a gcode command from usb?

Feeder step: I did a test with 100mm of material and calibrated the step/mm like the video. It' great that you can do it with tinkergnome firmaware from Move Material. Now i can use 100% flow and still getting better results. I have some gaps (underextruding) so i think i have to play a little more with the feeder steps calibrating more.

It's a shame i dont have a stable temperature. That's the only thing i have trouble now.

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How many watts is your heater? Here are some suggested PID starting values for various wattage heaters in the UM2. These values can be off by 30% and often still work fine as they are kind of self correcting somewhat but can oscillate if they are too far off:

25W PID 10, 2.5, 100

35W PID 7.5, 1.8, 75

35W PID 8, .5, 33 (neotko recommends)

40W PID 6.5, 1.5, 60

50w PID 5, 1.2, 50

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I will try those numbers, thanks. The heater is a 12v 40w.

Anyway how can i make the pid auto to work?

EDIT: still have the temperature issue, i use the 40W PID 6.5, 1.5, 60 as gr5 recommended. I put the temperature in 185 target so the real temperature is around 200-210 degrees Celsius. That way i can still print, but with 10 degrees of oscillation. Not ideal but it works.

I will try this and see if it works (finger crossed)

https://www.lulzbot.com/fine-tune-your-marlin-pid-settings

EDIT2: Just tried the Pronterface without any success. I get "temperature too high" like in the firmware. What i don't understand is why the original firmware doesn't have the temperature problem.

pronterface.thumb.png.4d554521cb7a62b3d1907cca41dc573a.png

pronterface.thumb.png.4d554521cb7a62b3d1907cca41dc573a.png

Edited by Guest

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Test run success (mostly, it's not the best quality, but it's a start). It's way better 2.85mm haha, but 1.75mm is so cheap in comparison.

testrun.thumb.jpg.467daedf22401735e1a955df2174c3a0.jpg

Settings

Tinkergnome Tinker V17.02.1

PLA makerparts 1.75mm

Temperature: 200-210 (still tinkering)

Flow: 100%

Step/mm: 94.6

testrun.thumb.jpg.467daedf22401735e1a955df2174c3a0.jpg

Edited by Guest

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>he heater is a 12v 40w.

WHAT?!!  Is this a 12v heater on a 24V printer?  If so that would be 160Watts (not 80W).  I don't think the power supply on the UM2 can handle that at the same time as heating the bed.  Could it possibly be a 24V 40W heater?  Maybe you should measure the resistance.  Wattage is VV/R  (voltage squared over resistance).

If it's 40W at 24V then try my PID values for 40W heater above.

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>he heater is a 12v 40w.

WHAT?!!  Is this a 12v heater on a 24V printer?  If so that would be 160Watts (not 80W).  

Oh god, you're right. I must have some brain issues here. And I do think the heater resistance is rapidly moving upwards due to excessive heating, I figure that's the only reason anything can be working.

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35W PID 8, .5, 33 (neotko recommends)

Just to clarify this, since is almost impossible to follow threads here. That pid was because the heater was faulty, it did went from zero to glowing red in a second.

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/18625-solved-um2-pid-autotune-failed#reply-152021

All my 3 um2 hotends use 35W (from um and from 3dsolex) and I use the um2+ PID and they work quite stable. But using a e3d sock does help to keep a more stable temperature.

Edited by Guest

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>he heater is a 12v 40w.

WHAT?!!  Is this a 12v heater on a 24V printer?  If so that would be 160Watts (not 80W).  I don't think the power supply on the UM2 can handle that at the same time as heating the bed.  Could it possibly be a 24V 40W heater?  Maybe you should measure the resistance.  Wattage is VV/R  (voltage squared over resistance).

If it's 40W at 24V then try my PID values for 40W heater above.

The person who sold me the heater says it's 12v 40w. He is going to send me another that is 24v 40w. Now the heater is behaving like it should. When i set the temperature to 195, it stick to 197 without moving. I'm using 40W PID 6.5, 1.5, 60. It seems to work now. It didn't before.

I will continue my quest to print more stuff with 1.75mm.

EDIT: this heater definitely has it's problems. After printing for 2 and half hours, the print suddenly stops and i got this message. I believe the temperature raises too fast to critical levels. I will try again when the new heater arrives.

error_heater.jpg.1707f97eed45d7cdc1080b4547920906.jpg

The boxes are supposed to be much taller.

box.thumb.jpg.e6f45ed9ddf1aa3e06495fc1b526098e.jpg

Edited by Guest

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I hate heater error. I disabled that error on my printer. Which firmware version do you have on your printer? You can check from the front panel in the menu systems.

========

heater error (as opposed to error stopped - temp sensor)

You get an error if the heater can't move a certain amount in a certain time while driving full power (when it is close to goal temp it typically runs well below full power):

Firmware

Version

14.09 - does not have the feature

14.12 oct 16, 2014 - feature introduced. 20C in 20 Seconds

14.12.1 dec 15, 2014 - from 20C to 10C (still in 20 seconds)

15.01 jan 14, 2015 - from 20 secs to 30 secs (now 10C in 30 seconds)

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I hate heater error.  I disabled that error on my printer.  Which firmware version do you have on your printer?  You can check from the front panel in the menu systems.

========

heater error (as opposed to error stopped - temp sensor)

You get an error if the heater can't move a certain amount in a certain time while driving full power (when it is close to goal temp it typically runs well below full power):

Firmware

Version

14.09                - does not have the feature

14.12   oct 16, 2014 - feature introduced. 20C in 20 Seconds

14.12.1 dec 15, 2014 - from 20C to 10C (still in 20 seconds)

15.01   jan 14, 2015 - from 20 secs to 30 secs (now 10C in 30 seconds)

 

It's a problem related to the heater itself. It doesn't rise the temperature at all, that's why the heater error. And it's not a firmware related problem (I tested with original um2+ extended firmware from cura 2.4 and it still has the same problem). I will change the heater when the new one arrives and test it again.

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You might not consider it a firmware problem but I do. I just took it out. If you read carefully my post, you should realize: you only get the error if the heater can't keep up even at full power. So usually the fix is to get a more powerful heater. Although often the error is caused because the heater block is touching the fan shroud somewhere. But your heater is 160 Watts? So I don't know what is going on.

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