Trying to setup new Ultimaker build with Cura 13.06 Beta

[elzilcho 0]

Hi all!

I recently finished building my new Ultimaker (V4) and was trying to print a hollow pyramid from thingverse to check the calibration etc..

The first part of the print went fine but after about half way, the quality started to deteriorate and the I could see the 4 pillars of the print flexing as the extruder head added layers. I cancelled the print shortly after and have attached a picture link to show the result. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Photo:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxPwG0OapUqjdl9mVFRfaW5nQkk/edit?usp=sharing

The settings I used are as follows:

 

Cura: 13.06 Beta

Layer height: 0.1

Shell thickness: 0.8

Fill: 100%

Print speed: 50

Temp: 205

Everything else: Standard

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[illuminarti 18]

For initial prints, I'd start at 0.2mm layer height, and get everything dialed in at that layer height before going lower. You can still get *very* nice results at that layer height - only in very specific cases where I think the model will benefit do I go much lower than that.

You need to make sure that you have the fan on, and set a minimum layer time of probably 7 seconds or so, so that the lower layers have time to properly cool and solidify before the next is laid down. Try that, and see how it compares, then post more pictures!

 

[Daid 306]

I think retraction is grinding down your filament, which might be an indication that you have too much tension on the feeder spring.

 

[gr5 2,172]

That is a pretty good picture but it's still hard to tell. I feel like I see distortion in the shape which would be due to not enough cooling which is what Illuminarti is addressing (make sure fan on, and set minimum layer time a little higher whatever it is. 10 seconds should be plenty.

But I also think I see underextrusion but only at the very very end. Which is what Daid is addressing. I think Daid is closer to the larger of the two problems. Although the tension could just as easily be not enough. Your spring on the feeder should be compressed until it is about 11mm long if your spring is the same as from my kit and Illuminarti's kit.

Try heating up the nozzle, and open up the feeder and pull the filament out a few inches. Did it get all ground up?

 

[elzilcho 0]

Hi,

Thanks to everyone for your help! I tried a couple more prints (at: 0.2mm/7s/fan on) and also rebuilt the feeder mechanism at the back (including readjusting the spring).

The feeder spring is the v4 type so it is set at around 13/15mm (any more might damage the plastic part).

My prints still appear to be loosing quality at about half way, the first part looks great but after that it gets a bit messy.

I checked the fan during the print and it seemed to be going on/off normally.

 

In case this might help, I've attached a few second video of the printing process and a photo of the finished result. You can see a bit more detail in the video if change it to HD.

One thing I noticed is that when the wheel pulls back the filament, it still continues to come out the nozzle a bit.

 

For the filament test, I heated up the nozzle, and pulled it completely out the bowden tube.

I'm not sure exactly what to look for but it came out looking like in the photo.

 

btw, has anyone else printed this before? it would be great to please get a photo if you have time so I know what it should look like

 

In the mean time I will try 10s instead of 7 (perhaps a different temperature?)

 

Thanks!

Here are the links:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxPwG0OapUqjRzBjbXZLOEFsaDQ/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxPwG0OapUqjM1JrNTZBQlkxeVU/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxPwG0OapUqjdFFGTjlsTGJJbGM/edit?usp=sharing

 

[illuminarti 18]

I think George was wanting to see the other end of the filament - where its been through the extruder drive. :smile:

Here's one I printed a long time ago - not a great print, but it does give you some idea of what is possible - it should look like this or better.

 

You mention the fan going on/off... it should come on, and stay on for the rest of the print. That's probably what you were indicating, but just in case, i thought I'd point that out.

 

Can you also show some pictures of the extruder drive, or maybe even a video of it turning and retracting etc - would be useful to be able to see your spring as well, if only to know what the new moulded piece looks like in use. :-)

 

 

 

[gr5 2,172]

lol. Yes I wanted to see the teeth marks in the filament but I don't see any which tells me your spring probably isn't tight enough. I was suspecting that when you were done printing, the filament (at the feeder part) was chewed up so badly that it had a big bite chunk taken out of it (ground out of it). But I could be totally wrong especially since you managed to finish the pyramid this time.

Your cooling is fine. I can see that it takes much much longer than 7 seconds to print a layer.

If it was me, after watching the video, I'd tweak 5 things:

1) Increase layer height to .2. .1mm in my experience is *worse* quality than .2. Unless you spend 40 hours calibrating and experimenting.

2) Temp is at 205 - lower it to 190C. This can help quite a bit for a tricky print like this.

3) What's your retraction amount? I use 4.5mm as that's enough for me but I have a tight bowden that works very well. You should experiment with larger values maybe as much as 7mm just for a test. The only downside of using larger values is that it takes a little longer to print. That's why i lowered to 4.5mm.

4) Extra length on start should be ZERO! This could easily be the entire problem for you. If this is non-zero it would explain everything - it would give you over extrusion. I don't understand the purpose of this parameter. It only helps if you are leaking filament somewhere.

5) If there are no teeth marks or are barely seen in the filament then tighten that spring. Mine is at 11.5mm. Try just a 1/8th turn if you think something is close to breaking/striping. I can see the teeth marks through the bowden tube as it comes out of the feeder. Easily. Nice and regular.

 

[Daid 306]

1) Increase layer height to .2. .1mm in my experience is *worse* quality than .2. Unless you spend 40 hours calibrating and experimenting.

2) Temp is at 205 - lower it to 190C. This can help quite a bit for a tricky print like this.

3) What's your retraction amount? I use 4.5mm as that's enough for me but I have a tight bowden that works very well. You should experiment with larger values maybe as much as 7mm just for a test. The only downside of using larger values is that it takes a little longer to print. That's why i lowered to 4.5mm.

4) Extra length on start should be ZERO! This could easily be the entire problem for you. If this is non-zero it would explain everything - it would give you over extrusion. I don't understand the purpose of this parameter. It only helps if you are leaking filament somewhere.

5) If there are no teeth marks or are barely seen in the filament then tighten that spring. Mine is at 11.5mm. Try just a 1/8th turn if you think something is close to breaking/striping. I can see the teeth marks through the bowden tube as it comes out of the feeder. Easily. Nice and regular.

 

1) I always print at 0.1, no problem there. When I want quality prints I print at 0.06. And this isn't tweaked towards a single printer, as I use about 10 different printers.

2) 190C might be too low in some cases. 200C is usually what you want at small prints like this

3) Retraction could also be grinding down the filament, too much retraction could make this worse.

4) Extra length is the most silly thing ever. It is removed for the next version.

5) Filament should look a bit like a zipper yes.

 

[elzilcho 0]

Success!

The last couple of prints I tested came out looking great, I've attached a photo of the machine finishing off the pyramid

Thanks again to everyone for their great help, especially Sander from Ultimaker support for spending time on the telephone with me and great suggestions. All the comments from everyone have been really helpful and I learned a lot.

 

In the end, the problem appeared to be a combination of things, one of the big differences was that the end part of the fan duct was too vertical and the flap needed pointing more towards print head. (You can see the change in the photo).

 

Based on all the comments, I setup the print with these settings:

 

All default except:

 

Layer height: 0.2

Shell Thickness: 0.8

filament diameter: 2.92

Fill: 15%

Temp: 210 (will try 200 next print)

Diameter 2.92 (The silver filament)

Retraction Speed: 60 mm/s

Layer time: 7s

 

I also added a horseshoe clip to the bowden tube at the back of the machine on the feeder (stops it going up and down during prints)

 

For the question on the filament, lol! now I understand better and after checking, the filament does have a nice consistent zip pattern all the way along.

 

I don't know if it's still of any use but I also attached a short video of the extruder drive runnning. The middle grey part is a replacement part scanned in sketchup since I broke the original with too much force.

 

Thanks!

 

Links:

 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxPwG0OapUqjbG1tNklPVTFJbUU/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxPwG0OapUqjUy0teW5GX3V5NXc/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxPwG0OapUqjR1AwUnB2ZTJocTg/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxPwG0OapUqjYXlWQ0pJdUhSOUk/edit?usp=sharing