Inner Wall Speed is 200% Wall Speed

[d3c0de 0]

Hi, I love Cura and use it all the time. One thing that I've had happen a couple times while not paying attention is that when I set my Wall Speed, the Inner Wall Speed is set to 200% automatically.

 

For instance, my printer extrudes PLA fine at 190C up to about 80mm/s. My normal Print Speed is 65mm/s, but I want Wall Speed at 50mm/s for a little more accuracy. Cura then automatically calculates my Inner Wall Speed to 100mm/s, resulting in a speed faster than my printer can handle well.

 

This is easy to work around, and ultimately my fault for not checking, but I feel that inner wall speed should not be faster than 100% of base Wall Speed by default.

 

Just a suggestion, thanks!

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I put in a basic PLA and came up with this. It will change based on printer.

 

But, all values can be changed independently when I enter any value anywhere. here I have changed the outer wall speed, but no change to the inner wall speed.

 

I am not sure what you may be asking.

Edited July 22, 2018 by kmanstudios

[d3c0de 0]

Hi, I'm sorry, I'll try to explain better with screenshots. In the first screenshot, I leave Wall Speed at default. In the second, I change only Wall Speed, since I can still accurately draw walls at 50mm/s, but start to have trouble closer to 60.

 

This causes my Inner Wall Speed to become calculated as double (100mm/s), more than my printer can handle. It's easy to get around by setting Inner Wall Speed manually, but for a while I had that option hidden and didn't know what my problem was, or sometimes I'll miss setting it.

 

My suggestion would to limit calculated Wall Speeds so that they never exceed normal Print Speed unless set manually.

 

 

 

 

Again, it's not a big deal, but just a suggestion that would probably help avoid some headaches.

Edited July 23, 2018 by d3c0de
bad code

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Just change the inner wall speed.

 

But, you get a different result from what I get. When I change a value, it does not always change the other values. In my original screenshot, I only changed the outer wall speed.

 

So, there must be a difference in your printer and mine. Dunno why though......

[d3c0de 0]

I was changing normal Wall Speed. It appears you were changing Outer Wall Speed.

 

And yes, you can override and just change Inner Wall Speed, but the idea is that you don't want the printer to exceed the maximum speed a user would expect, just by changing Wall Speed.

 

 

In my case, I originally didn't have the Outer Wall Speed and Inner Wall Speed settings showing, so I had no idea that I was printing at 100mm/s until I started poking around.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Ahhhh, that is a different set of conditions then. When you change the global reference it will change everything. But, that is why they have the independent settings. It is also why I make sure everything in unhidden to prevent such things. But, then again, I am a bit of a control freak about each setting and rarely change globals.

[d3c0de 0]

Yeah, I've learned to keep an eye out, but it got me again today so I thought I'd post it as a suggestion. It would just idiot-proof things a bit more, for people like me! ?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

As I see it, you cannot keep track of every type of printer out there and make everything work right off the bat for all of them. It is up to the manufacturer to make the proper profiles.

[tinkergnome 927]

4 hours ago, kmanstudios said:

As I see it, you cannot keep track of every type of printer out there and make everything work right off the bat for all of them. It is up to the manufacturer to make the proper profiles.

 

@kmanstudios is on the right track. Those formulas are part of the printer profiles.
@d3c0de - which printer is it? One can probably check (on GitHub) who contributed the printer profile and contact the author / report the issue there.

[JCD 28]

If you want to change this behavior, open the fdmprinter file in the definition folder in the cura folder, with a text editor.

 

1) look for the text :  "speed_wall_x":

2) a few lines below, you can see the text :  "value": "speed_wall * 2",

3) change the 2 by the text 1.5

 

save the file

 

That's it !

 

This has to be done each time a new version is used, otherwise, you have to create a new definition file , overrriding these values

[d3c0de 0]

3 hours ago, JCD said:

If you want to change this behavior, open the fdmprinter file in the definition folder in the cura folder, with a text editor.

 

Thank you, @JCD! This is a good workaround; I just have to remember to do it when I upgrade.

 

@tinkergnome I'm using a Creality CR-10 Mini, but I use the default "Custom FDM printer" profile, and no manual adjustments to the configuration file. These are the settings coming from a stock Cura installation.

 

I still think it may be worth a look at that setting, as it can cause unforseen behavior for users simply adjusting wall speed, and since it appears to be a default setting for the Custom FDM Printer profile included with Cura, it can affect a large number of users.

 

Thank you for the replies everyone. Happy printing!

[kmanstudios 1,120]

6 minutes ago, d3c0de said:

I still think it may be worth a look at that setting, as it can cause unforseen behavior for users simply adjusting wall speed, and since it appears to be a default setting for the Custom FDM Printer profile included with Cura, it can affect a large number of users.

EVERYTHING is definitely worth a second look. Especially for those who do not unhide all the settings to get deep in the widgets. But, do not forget that some printers, that would not be an issue....And, I am guessing there, but what is one printers great settings can be another's lousy settings.

 

Would be better for a proper Creality CR-10 Mini profile to get all setting for that machine correct and as a profile and not just some generic thing that requires a bit of hacking.

[d3c0de 0]

It would be nice, but unfortunately we cannot expect official profiles from every printer manufacturer, or for Cura devs to make them, so many users will end up using the defaults.

 

At the end of the day, this is free software provided without warranty, and of course it's up to the end user to make sure things are correct. It's just a suggestion for the developers to consider, and would be a pretty simple change.

 

Change

 

"value": "speed_wall * 2",

to

"value": "speed_wall * 1",

for

 

"speed_wall_x":

 

in

 

fdmprinter.def.json.

 

The only downside I see is that for people using Custom FDM Printer profile, prints would be a little slower by default.

Edited July 23, 2018 by d3c0de

[kmanstudios 1,120]

5 hours ago, d3c0de said:

but unfortunately we cannot expect official profiles from every printer manufacturer

I think if enough people raised  hell about, they just may. Beats asking Cura Dev to pick up their slack and makes more sense.

[d3c0de 0]

 

52 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

I think if enough people raised  hell about, they just may. Beats asking Cura Dev to pick up their slack and makes more sense.

 

I disagree, and think it makes less sense. We know that this hobby is filled with hardware from all over the world, even homebrew solutions, and that getting manufacturers to all support one specific software product will never happen, especially when many of them have solutions of their own. The default profile should err on the side of caution rather than performance.

 

While I don't think this is a huge problem, I stand by the idea that changing the default Custom FDM Printer profile is an easy solution with very little downside. Whether Cura devs agree and want to spend a few minutes on it is another story, but it makes a lot more sense than reaching out to every vendor out there to try and get them to make Cura profiles.

 

Edit: It probably would make more sense to submit a pull request to their Github than talk about it on the forum. I'll do that instead. Thank you for the information, everyone.

Edited July 23, 2018 by d3c0de

[kmanstudios 1,120]

40 minutes ago, d3c0de said:

and that getting manufacturers to all support one specific software product will never happen,

And so you think getting Cura Dev to do it is the answer?

 

How about Crealty users getting together and making a proper profile?

 

40 minutes ago, d3c0de said:

Custom FDM Printer profile is an easy solution with very little downside.

OK, Whose Custom printer then? Again, making a default, one size fits all will not work for exactly your stated reasoning.

 

Basically, I would not bother with a printer, no matter how cheap if the developers of said printer cannot either OEM the software of bother to make a printer def.

 

Seriously, how much of everybody else's load is Cura Dev supposed to shoulder for all other people who make stuff?

 

It is a cheap printer and that is one of the reasons why.....In this case, cheap as in inexpensive.

 

Nothing will convince me that Cura Dev should make something for everything under the sun, especially since the controls are there for people to access already.

 

Users do have to take some initiative.

[d3c0de 0]

The Custom FDM Printer profile is the profile many users will select, since it's a simple starting place for users that don't have their printer in list, and don't have manufacturers kind enough to provide Cura profiles. Assuming that most printers will want Inner Wall Speed to be a 2x multiple of Wall Speed is a bad assumption, in my opinion.

 

2 hours ago, kmanstudios said:

Nothing will convince me

 

I'm not trying to convince you. I'm trying to convince Cura devs, which is why I'll submit a pull request on Github. Thank you @tinkergnome for pointing me in the right direction.

 

2 hours ago, kmanstudios said:

Users do have to take some initiative. 

 

I'll do the work and make the change for them, and they can accept it if they like. That's the great thing about working with an open source community. If they don't like the suggestion, they can simply reject it, but implementing is super easy, should they decide to. However, I feel the conversation here is becoming less than productive.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

25 minutes ago, d3c0de said:

I'll do the work and make the change for them, and they can accept it if they like.

That is different from what you intimated before, or rater, failed to make clear. Before it seemed you wanted Cura Devs to do the work.

 

But, if you are going to go that far, why not really nail down a Crealty profile.

 

Not

26 minutes ago, d3c0de said:

I feel the conversation here is becoming less than productive.

Not unproductive now that you have made yourself clear.

 

What you seem to be missing is that I have been advocating for people to stop relying on Cura Devs to do everything for everybody.

It is open source. Now you make clear you will take advantage of that and be helpful and not expecting them to do the work.

 

For instance, that is why I suggest you doing a really good Crealty profile. And, that would be more specific.

 

You are correct, they can do what they want....accept your input or not. But, I do ask what happens when your changes do something really wacky to another person's printer and they come here and have just as valid a complaint as you do now, being that of the default, generic, does not work for them?

 

If people who have these independent printers actually pulled together and worked instead of trying to get Cura Dev to do it for them, then Cura would actually be further along.

 

Make no mistake, now that you have clarified that you are going to do work, and not just wail that Cura Devs are not doing it for you, I applaud that and hope others take your initiative and apply it for themselves. To many take the 'community aspect' into meaning just showing up and requesting, not doing.

 

So, I am happy you do this.

 

See? Now that you  make yourself more clear, do you really feel that it is not productive? I cannot read your mind, but now that you state your intent, I stand behind your efforts completely.

[d3c0de 0]

You're making this much more personal that it needs to be, and making false assumptions. I had no idea where to even look, and now that I've been directed to Github, I have a a way to contribute. Honestly, I've never even looked to see where their code repository is. Perhaps I could have spent more time on Google before coming here, I'll admit that much. To suggest that I want the Cura Devs to bend over backwards and do all the work is simply putting words into my mouth. I just didn't know how/where to help and started here.

 

While I may create a CR-10 Mini profile as well, I still feel that modifying the included Custom FDM Printer profile is a good idea, and will suggest doing so.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I am not taking anything personal. You are the one who was not clear. Now I understand. I guess applauding your efforts was not enough?

19 minutes ago, d3c0de said:

Honestly, I've never even looked to see where their code repository is. Perhaps I could have spent more time on Google before coming here,

And, what would you have searched for? Sadly, the one thing that is still an issue of finding things is knowing what search terms to look for.

 

20 minutes ago, d3c0de said:

While I may create a CR-10 Mini profile as well, I still feel that modifying the included Custom FDM Printer profile is a good idea, and will suggest doing so.

Now, you go back to saying you suggest they do something rather you submitting it. Look, this is up to you if you do this. But, I watched a whole group of people jump all over a printer definition and work together for a common good. That made me happy to see.

21 minutes ago, d3c0de said:

To suggest that I want the Cura Devs to bend over backwards and do all the work is simply putting words into my mouth.

Nope. when people are not clear, others have to interpolate. I said I cannot read your mind. And, to be honest, your wording previously matched that of others that just come here to complain Team UM does not do other companies work for them. I am not going to take the time and quote every time you said they should do something instead of you doing it and submitting it. That was what you just made clear. Now, if you want to make the changes and submit them, well, I still applaud that.....or is that taking things too personal for you?

 

Kinda damned if I agree and damned if I disagree.......

[d3c0de 0]

kman, I'm done. This is stupid. Have a nice day.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I completely agree that it is stupid.

 

If I disagree with you, you get riled and say I am putting words in your mouth.

 

If I agree with you, you say I am taking it personally. If I say I applaud you, you still get incensed.

 

And if I say that you should do what you say and that it is great, you say it is stupid.

 

So, stupid it shall be.

[d3c0de 0]

kman, I'm not 'incensed' because of your applause. I'm sitting here just shaking my head in wonder of how this thread has derailed to this point, or why I'm beginning this reply, but I will attempt to clarify why I said it's stupid, and extend an olive branch.

 

You applaud me while simultaneously misinterpreting my intent, and entitling yourself to do so because of the actions of past users. When I said "I still feel that modifying the included Custom FDM Printer profile is a good idea", you assumed that I mean that the Cura Devs have to do it and I was flip-flopping. I just meant that they would accept a pull request, but never stated who would do the modifying. At that point I'd already gone and located the file on Github.

 

So, if you can accept that I'm not just a lazy user looking to leech off the hard work of Cura devs, I will accept that there are a lot of people that come here with that intent, and can see how it could have been easy to perceive it as so. I contribute to several open source projects, and I don't really care who does the work as long as things get better. So, truce?

Edited July 24, 2018 by d3c0de
A word

[kmanstudios 1,120]

1 hour ago, d3c0de said:

You applaud me while simultaneously misinterpreting my intent

Ok, this is not about alive branches. I applauded you for saying you would make the changes and provide them in a pull request. Unless I misunderstood that, then, well, I guess I just do not get what you are saying and it really does not matter at this point.

 

This is feeling more like if I do not say what you want me to say, the way you say it, then it will keep on going. So, whatever......do as you will

 

1 hour ago, d3c0de said:

if you can accept that I'm not just a lazy user looking to leech off the hard work of Cura devs, I will accept that there are a lot of people that come here with that intent

Who gives a damn what I accept? And, I do not know you or your rep. And making it contingent that I accept one (you are not a lazy user) so that you will accept the other (there are those that do leach), well, dunno about what to say about that. But, with the hilited areas of text, this is why this has gone on.

 

Look, I see what you type, but cannot read intent. The above example is just one of many reasons that I have engaged to this point.

 

1 hour ago, d3c0de said:

and I don't really care who does the work as long as things get better.

I care deeply. I care when it comes to the Cura Devs getting swamped with things that really matter such as this thread:

https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/22535-ultimaker-s5-impressions-opinions/?page=14&tab=comments#comment-215583

 

It does make a difference. And when people pull out the will to work on things and contribute, it makes the software, forum and community that much richer.

[d3c0de 0]

Alright, I tried. It doesn't really matter whether I came here to do the work or not. I came here with good intentions, and I've attempted to remain constructive, despite your negativity and assumptions of my laziness. I'm not "complaining", I'm providing feedback. You clearly have a bias and are interpreting things however you want.

 

Your words have remained antagonistic throughout this conversation. We're not even talking about the problem, because you're so insistent that it doesn't deserve attention. That's simply your opinion, and I disagree. You stated early on that I wouldn't sway your opinion on this, so why are you still talking about it? You're not the gatekeeper.

 

If you really wanted to help the Cura devs, you'd simply let threads like this fizzle out, rather than continually bumping it back up to the top with replies that add nothing. I appreciate your original intent to help, but it quickly devolved into trying to label me as some ungrateful complainer and put me in a bucket with previous forum users you've encountered. If people don't think it's a problem, they can just ignore the thread.