Need input on UM3 and Um S5

[Belezeebub 9]

I have my options narrowed down to three.

Ultimaker 3, Ultimaker 5 or Taz Pro, this will be my fifth printer.

 

I have a Taz 6 I love it, the only thing I don’t like about it is the dual extruder often nozzle two will drag in the model even knocking it free.

The Taz Pro does have dual power lifting extruders

Both the Um3 and Um5 have lifting nozzles, but it seems to be a bit more like a manual level to switch the nozzle selection, which would be fine for a single color printer but it seems to me it would cause delays with printing as each time the nozzle need to return to the switch position.

 

I print a large number of items where I use PVA supports, so for me that is a negative.

But the Taz uses a .5 Nozzle which to me is too large, (while I can change the nozzle size, I still have the drag issue)

 

I don’t know anyone that has a Ultimaker so I don’t have firsthand experience with the UM but it has a great deal of good reviews.

The only downsize I can think of would be the aft fore mentioned nozzle switch delay and the price of the matching filament.

I am looking for opinions about the switch time and if you think it raises the print time, and if the switch is a durable design?

Is the Bondtech upgrade worth the cost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Donnie_ 0]

Im interested in this as well.  I was looking at the Taz but the ultimakers do seem like a more polished product.  

[Smithy 1,144]

I cannot speak about the TAZ, but I have 3 Ultimaker printer, Um2Go, UM3 and S5 and can say they are all very reliable. Also the switch is very durable, no problems at all and I also haven't heard any problems from others. So don't worry, this lifting mechanism just works. Of course it is a bit time consuming, but with a dual print you want a good and clean result and if you enable a prime tower too for example to wipe you nozzle, then the switching time is negligible. I would not buy a printer which doesn't lift the unused nozzle, to avoid scratches or other accidents during the print.

 

You write "the price of the matching filament". You only need a 2.85mm filament and you can use any brand you want. There is no need to go with UM filemant. The advantage with UM filament is only, that they have an NFC tag and will be auto detected by the printer. But if you load a non UM spool, you select the material type on the display and then you have the same result. Nothing more happens and no more magic with UM spools. But you should use a filament of good quality, but that should be the case for all printers.

 

Bondtech feeders are only needed for the UM3 if you want to print abrasive materials, because the UM3 feeder gears are not hardened. The S5 feeder gears are already hardened so you can print abrasive materials with the S5 out of the box. Both feeders are great and personally I don't see any advantage to the Bondtech (except for abrasive materials) Additionally the S5 feeders have a filament sensor detection. Bondtech feeder are great for UM2s or UM2+, I have one on my UM2Go and there was a great upgrade, but the UM2 feeders are not as good as the stock UM3 or S5.

[Belezeebub 9]

I Said "matching filament" because I want a hit print and forget, I currently have a Excel spread sheet showing months of work for Filament XXX printing at YYY with ZZZ settings rinse and repeat for about 40 different filaments with two of my printers, for my Taz I didn't want to do that so I only use polymaker, which gives me a much smaller spreadsheet. if I do end up with a UM3 or UM S5 I would use Ultimaker so I didn't have to recreate months or years of print test change setting print second test change settings etc....

I know when my window guy calls and wants 1000 of https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2963356 I will print them in Black polymaker polylite ASA I will use a bed temp of 92c a nozzle temp of 255c I have the exact speed, flow, retraction, fan speeds to make them come out perfect

[Brulti 177]

I bought at UM3E two years ago, been very happy with it since. It was my first printer, so I had a bit of a learning curve at first.

 

I use mostly UM filament, and they are as close to 'hit print and forget' as can be, I think. CURA has the settings for UM filaments, so, you can just load up a spool of PLA, select it in CURA and start your print; same with every UM filament. For other brands, you need to do a bit of experimenting, but once you've found the right settings, you can create a specific setting in CURA and you're good to go as well. I've done that with several special filament such as wood.

 

Bondtech is only useful if you'll be using abrasive filaments, else you're good to go with the standard UM cores.

 

The switch is a durable design, it does increase printing time some but it also gives you such a flexibility by being able to print with two colors and two materials. The PVA soluble support is more expensive, but so useful! I coudln't print much of what I do without it, especially when I'm printing figurines for some of my customers. It makes removing the support so much easier than anything else.

 

[Belezeebub 9]

22 hours ago, Brulti said:

The PVA soluble support is more expensive,

Use the advance settings of PVA only for interface layer I used to burn 5 - 7 rolls of PVA a month now I am down to 2.

 

[Brulti 177]

On 7/10/2019 at 2:49 PM, Belezeebub said:

Use the advance settings of PVA only for interface layer I used to burn 5 - 7 rolls of PVA a month now I am down to 2.

 

Thanks for the tip!

[Belezeebub 9]

I am really on the fence here, My Taz 6 is a work horse it just keeps churning out prints never a problem unless I fat finger a settings, but dual color it just fails hard Nozzle 2 always seems to mess up the surface finish, so seeing I am adding a 6^th printer I allocated a larger budget. (6K US)

I started out with six possible printers on my list

Raise2d Pro 2, Taz Pro, Um3, Ums5, MakerGear M3-ID, and BCN3D Sigmax R19 Independent Dual Extruder 3D Printer.

I asked the support techs at MatterHackers, I asked on the forums and I used the last month to research.

 

Raise3d Pro 2 - This machine is a beast. For the price point, you are getting a machine that has a huge build volume and is built like a tank. Most everything in the machine has been upgraded from the previous N2 version and this machine can print beautiful prints.

Nice Review but if you search Raise3d forums you find a totally different story. As of right now the posts on their own forums are Under Extrusion, Clicking, Jam, Shift, Jam, Clicking, more Jam and more jam and clicking (So I knocked this one off the list)

 

Ultimaker 3 or S5 - Very similar machines with the S5 having a larger build volume, nice touch screen interface, filament runout sensor, improved leveling, and CC core for abrasives. If it was in your budget, I would certainly opt for the S5 over the Ultimaker 3

The printer is pretty new but I am already seeing people trying to dump them on eBay, and refurbished units and returns plus a number of bad reviews, most listing poor print quality and reliability

To me refurbished means someone returned it and the copy hit it with some 409 did a test print and slap a 5k price on it.

 

Lulzbot Pro - This one is tough. It has lots of great features and I have seen the machine perform here in the office. Since it is so new, I do not have a lot of feedback to give on the machine other than my first impressions. The dual extrusion on this machine is definitely far superior to that of the TAZ 6 with the nozzles being stationary on that machine

No reviews I can find, but more then one post about “Extruder 1 Filament Error” and the new run-out sensors causing issues

 

BCN3D Sigma R19 - I really do like the IDEX setup for extrusion. However, from my experience it does seem like the QC on the machines have been hit or miss. When the machines do perform, they are amazing and the IDEX allows for really quick multi-part or batch printing.

Extruding issues listed on their forums

 

MakerGear M3 ID - I really like this machine. It does have a small build volume compared to the other machines that you mentioned, but it is built incredibly solid. I have recommended this machine to quite a few of my customers and have gotten nothing but great feedback on this machine. The latest version

added autobed leveling which is great for reliability and repeatability.

Posts about the noise, clogging, poor reliability and poor print quality

 

I am a hobbyist I print mostly do-dads and cute things that strike my fancy. I have a few commercial contracts for ABS and ASA parts but all the profits just go into buying filament for my hobby.

I have five Printers right now three of which I use daily, and right now my Taz 6 is running 24x6 to fee a 1000-piece order.

I had a non-kit real I3 Mk3 (HATED IT returned for a refund)

I love my Taz but dual color is a fail

 

So I thought about the raise3d Pro2 till I found the negative reviews I knocked it off the list, I looked at the MakerGear m3 id till I heard one running and poof it was off the list, I found too many bad reviews on the BCN3d so that one is a no go. Which leaves just three options

UM 3 I could get two refurbished ones for my budget or one new one and a ton of Filament

UM 5 I like the size, I like the new CC nozzle option, but is it really worth 6k New? I can get a used one for 5k with some filament thrown in, I can get a refurbished one with a 6mt warrantee for 5200 and free shipping, so between refurbished and used is a toss up warrantee or extra filament?

Taz Pro I would shout it from the root tops I love my Taz, but dual color it is NOT, the new pro lifts the nozzle and is using real e3d titan Aero’s but no reviews but it is 1k cheaper than the UM S5.

 

 

[Brulti 177]

Alternatively you could get a UM3E with the bondtech feeder upgrades for abrasive filaments if you really need it. The 3E is cheaper than the S5, has a nice build volume (30*20*20), is dual print and can accept the CC core for abrasive if need be.

It doesn't have the filament sensor, but I don't feel that this is such a deal breaker.

 

Got mine for two years now, never been disappointed, every problem I encountered were due to user error, except a bent glass plate that was quickly replaced by my reseller free of charge, and solved thanks to the great poeple of this forum.

[Smithy 1,144]

6 hours ago, Belezeebub said:

UM 5 I like the size, I like the new CC nozzle option, but is it really worth 6k New? I can get a used one for 5k with some filament thrown in, I can get a refurbished one with a 6mt warrantee for 5200 and free shipping, so between refurbished and used is a toss up warrantee or extra filament?

 

All I can say is that the S5 is my favorite printer. The UM3 prints the same, I don't have a problem with that either, but I prefer to use the S5 for whatever reason. 

 

Personally I wouldn't buy a used printer. Since I think there must be a reason why someone buys such an expensive printer and then returns it. You can't be sure if these printers don't have a hidden fault that comes up later. Even if you still have a warranty, it's difficult to get the printer back to the dealer because of the size and weight of the printer.

 

I have no experience with the other printers listed, but if I had to decide today to buy a new printer, I would buy another S5 without hesitation.

 

There are some users here in the forum who are not satisfied with the S5 or have problems. I can't understand all these problems. I believe the users that they actually have problems, but I am sure that these problems are due to single exemplars and it is not a general problem. We have here in the forum mainly those users who have problems, on the other hand there are several thousands of users, especially in the industry who just print and have no problems.

 

[Carla_Birch 116]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:49 PM, Belezeebub said:

Use the advance settings of PVA only for interface layer I used to burn 5 - 7 rolls of PVA a month now I am down to 2.

 

Yep's i do this very same trick, because my prints all have supports on the outside, so i only need the roof of the support to be PVA to give the better overhang finnish.