Dual extrusion experiment: suggestion for Cura

[hajot 0]

Inspired by viralatas http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/2346-first-tests-of-architectural-prints/?p=28444 I have experimented a bit with 'light tubes' using my new dual extrusion UM1. The idea was to let a hemisphere pick up light that falls through a hole in a base cylinder (printed on my UM2) and depending on the entrance of the (clear) PLA the light should show up on one of different spots where the light tubes end on the surface of the hemisphere:

 

The result for two rotations of the hemisphere (sorry for the grainy pictures of a rather dark scene):

 

 

So it worked finally! My first attempts were with 20% or so infill. However, this absorbed all the light in the tubes. So, the present print was done with 1.6 mm of shell thickness, I think, and without infill (without wipe tower but with ooze shield):

 

 

In this case I would have preferred some infill for the opaque (gold) PLA component but no infill for the clear PLA. If you think about it then it would be really great if you could set shell thickness and infill independently for the two nozzles in Cura (so far this is only possible for temperature and filament diameter, I think). It would then also be possible to contrast density, structure and stability of the two material components. That could be quite helpful for some print projects.

 

Would that be possible, Daid? :-P

 

 

 

[makingzone 2]

Great Idea !!! And i proposed to do the same thing with the retraction. I print occasionaly with my dual extruder PLA and FLexible PLA. And I have to desactivate the retraction for the both because the flexible doesn't like that. It could be great to keep retraction activate for the normal PLA and desactivate for the flexible.

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

Great Idea !!! And i proposed to do the same thing with the retraction. I print occasionaly with my dual extruder PLA and FLexible PLA. And I have to desactivate the retraction for the both because the flexible doesn't like that. It could be great to keep retraction activate for the normal PLA and desactivate for the flexible.

 

Until Daid has maybe implemented it (I guess, this won't be today or tomorrow), this could be achieved with a plugin...while changing infill percentage is hopeless for a plugin.

 

[Daid 306]

It is a GUI issue, this could be done quite easy in the engine. But currently I have no proper GUI elements to put this in place and still keep the GUI a bit easy. There are tons of things people want to differently on both extruders.

(A plugin would be a nice workaround right now)

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

Daid, you probably want to shoot me on the moon after reading this post...

But: What about creating a completely new settings tab for dual extrusion? I guess dual extrusion has some future, also with the UM2, hasn't it?

 

[Daid 306]

Dual extrusion most certainly has some future. Especially now that Makerbot dropped support for it in their latest machines.

I have some ideas on the GUI. And, 14.02 will most likely be the last release with the current GUI. We've had our interaction-designer work on the GUI, and he has had some great ideas on improvements.

 

[hajot 0]

Great Idea !!! And i proposed to do the same thing with the retraction. I print occasionaly with my dual extruder PLA and FLexible PLA. And I have to desactivate the retraction for the both because the flexible doesn't like that. It could be great to keep retraction activate for the normal PLA and desactivate for the flexible.

 

 

It is a GUI issue, this could be done quite easy in the engine. But currently I have no proper GUI elements to put this in place and still keep the GUI a bit easy. There are tons of things people want to differently on both extruders.

(A plugin would be a nice workaround right now)

 

I had the same thought with flexible PLA. It would be great if this material could be included in a dual material print.

I have read somewhere in the forum that a number of Ultimaker users discontinue using the dual extrusion extension - maybe this is because, in the long run, just printing with two colours is not fascinating enough for the additional efforts? (You can also paint your objects ...). However, combining different material properties in one print (by type or nozzle-specific settings) opens up a new world of possibilities.

 

[makingzone 2]

Hummm great things for the futur !!!

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

Sounds very promising... :-P

 

[makingzone 2]

An other bing improvement for printing with dual is to add the possibility to stop the ooze shield and the prime tower at the last layer used for dual extrusion (to not wast material). And second (depend of the first) improvement for PVA is to stop to heat the second extruder at this same last layer to not carbonise the pva.

 

[LePaul 331]

I had the same thought with flexible PLA. It would be great if this material could be included in a dual material print.

I have read somewhere in the forum that a number of Ultimaker users discontinue using the dual extrusion extension - maybe this is because, in the long run, just printing with two colours is not fascinating enough for the additional efforts? (You can also paint your objects ...). However, combining different material properties in one print (by type or nozzle-specific settings) opens up a new world of possibilities.

 

Well, I have the second extruder kit but to be honest, the prints I have seen done with different colors looked more like a "marble" effect than distinctly different colors. I knew it was experimental when I bought the upgrade kit and looking forward to see what comes about

 

[mastory 44]

I have the kit. Ordered it with some other stuff that I needed to combine the shipping. One issue that may be in my way is that there doesnt appear to be different extrusion consrants available for ext. 1 vs ext. 2.

Is this the case?

If so, it will be an issue for me since my first extruder is non-std (geo hagen's). I will have to build a second in order to dual extrude. Even with identical extruder drives, it would be a benefit for fine tuning to have separate settings.

Matt

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

I have the kit. Ordered it with some other stuff that I needed to combine the shipping. One issue that may be in my way is that there doesnt appear to be different extrusion consrants available for ext. 1 vs ext. 2.

Is this the case?

[...]

 

Are you refering to the missing diameter2 in Cura (http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/3580-flow-rate-adjustment-ulticontroller/)?

 

[mastory 44]

Primarily, I am referring to the M92 Exxx value as it applies to extruder drive 1 vs 2, and that they should have individual settings. Additionally, all the settings that pertain to the first extruder axis should also be available on additional extruders including filament diameter, flow multplier, nozzle size, temp and steps per mm.

I speak from some ignorance here because I haven't mounted my second extruder yet. Some of the above variables may already be available. I havent yet set Cura up for a second extruder yet either.

I gathered from other discussions that separate settings for the extruder "steps per mm" were not available. Maybe this is a limit imposed by the firmware or the gcode. IDK

Matt

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

Primarily, I am referring to the M92 Exxx value as it applies to extruder drive 1 vs 2, and that they should have individual settings.

No need if you have identical extruders (same version!) which is the case with the Ultimaker Dual Extrusion Kit and a not too old UM Original.

Additionally, all the settings that pertain to the first extruder axis should also be available on additional extruders including filament diameter, flow multplier, nozzle size, temp and steps per mm.

filament diameter: strongly agree! (Daid is most probably hating my guts as I might have mentioned diameter2 once or twice before... :shock: )

flow multiplier: must to have until Cura gets a proper implementation of diameter2 (oops, I did it again... ), from that point on: nice to have

nozzle size: agree

temp: already implemented

steps per mm: see above

I have an idea how to implement individual flow multipliers directly in Marlin (see http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/3580-flow-rate-adjustment-ulticontroller/&do=findComment&comment=40780)... I hope I can realise a first version soon.

 

[mastory 44]

No need if you have identical extruders (same version!) which is the case with the Ultimaker Dual Extrusion Kit and a not too old UM Original.

I dont have identical extruders. My primary is GeoHagen that replaced my UM std equipment long before the improvements. (Im inclined to think it is still better than std equipment).

If someone were set up to print 1.75mm on one extruder and 3mm on the other, or different materials, the M92 E value will differ from one to the other. It is normal to find differeent E values from one extruder to the next based on the quality of the knurl, spring pressure whatever. It is a standard calibration recommended for each new machine. I expect it varies somewhat from one V3 extruder to the next anyway.

Im just voicing my opinion in the support of flexibility.

Matt

[3dcase 37]

I have an idea how to implement individual flow multipliers directly in Marlin (see http://umforum.ultimaker.com/index.php?/topic/3580-flow-rate-adjustment-ulticontroller/&do=findComment&comment=40780)... I hope I can realise a first version soon.

Cant wait to give it try , Would be nice to try and get some decent clean dual colour prints out.

Combining materials and using support Pva works fine.

I have the cura support not under control yet, but drawing your own and use it like you would use a second colour , is a good workaround for now.

 

[3dcase 37]

An other bing improvement for printing with dual is to add the possibility to stop the ooze shield and the prime tower at the last layer used for dual extrusion (to not wast material). And second (depend of the first) improvement for PVA is to stop to heat the second extruder at this same last layer to not carbonise the pva.

Tweak AtoZ should do that job?

 

[Dim3nsioneer 558]

@mastory: You convinced me. There are multiple issues opened for Marlin which deal with that topic. But there seems to be no consensus up to know how to solve the problem...might take some more time... :sad: