Jump to content
Ultimaker Community of 3D Printing Experts

Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

I want to mount two 40mm fans at my ultimaker original. I printed the fan duct which you can see at the end of the post. As far everything is alright. But today when the fans came and I tried them, I have found that the air flow is very low. I bought these fans:

Scythe Mini Kaze SY124010L (40mm)

4,11 CFM = 7 m³/h

Preasure

2.13 mm H2O

Voltage:

12 V

Current:

0,06 A

 

Is that enough airflow for cooling the object? If not which fans could you recommend?

I think this one is a little bit overkill:

http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/998643/?insert=U0&insertNoDeeplink&productname=PC-Luefter-40-x-40-x-28-mm

My last question is: How much power does the fan connection deliver? I have no Eagle so i can't see the schematic of the controllerboard. Could someone please create an pdf of the schematic? This would be great =).

Greetings

[youmaginedesign=463]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know the answer but you should know that the voltage is actually 19V. Some 12V fans are fine with that and some die within a few seconds.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

O.o this isn't an 12V Connector?

I have installed the Altium Designer. Therefore I do not necessarily want to install Eagle.

I would be you thankful if you could create a PDF.

Thanks for the tip with the Evers fan. This one does not look bad.

http://www.amazon.de/Everflow-L%C3%BCfter-40x40x28mm-R124028BUAF78301-Kugellager/dp/B0050NEBQQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=ce-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1398193248&sr=1-1&keywords=Everflow

Now I have to look only if I can get this one in the Switzerland.

I'm thinking about designing a small adapter board to convert the 19V to 12V. With this Board I would control then 3 pin fans so that the thermal sensor is not disturbed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The existing fan is a 12V fan and it seems to work fine.

 

I have installed the Altium Designer. Therefore I do not necessarily want to install Eagle.

 

I don't understand. With computers you can install thousands of programs. They normally don't interact. I have probably 10 different CAD programs for example. I have 4 browsers. I have hundreds of programs installed. Thousands maybe. They don't interfere with each other.

I plan to convert to PNG format some day (not pdf though). It's not simple since it's a large schematic - I think it needs to be converted to several different images. I've been meaning to do this for a while but haven't gotten to it. I think I have the relevant portion already on this forum - let me check... this is all I've got - doesn't explain that VCC2 is 19V.

Um Fan

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hm, 47dBA is really noisy.

Have you thought about that well?

My sample must either be buried deep under the ground, or in a well insulated enclosure. :???:

I think with two units: nearly 10CFM / 8.000RpM / 35dBA; are more than adequate.

Another example:

Everflow R124020BM 12V DC (Range: 7~13,2 V)

40x40x20mm / 3-pin Molex /2 Ball-Bearings / 8000 RpM / 34,8dBA (max. 37,8dBA) / 10,19CFM (0,29m³/min) / 1,20W (max.1,92W) / 0,10A (max.0,16A.

Markus

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You shouldn't use two 40x40x20 mm fans. That's a lot of weight for the printhead.

If you really need to do that, you will probably have to print very slowly in order to prevent having problems with ringing or even skipped motor steps.

It seems most 12V fans don't have a problem with19V supply. I'm using a single Noiseblocker Blacksilent fan, 40x40x10mm, with very low airflow (same duct as mentioned above, but only left side part). Works well enough for my blocky technical prints.

I always print at 35mm/s speed. Takes long, but usually gives good results.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the motors are strong enough for the still relatively light fan´s.

Speeds up to 175mm / s should already be possible without problems.

But Good quality objects are always created below 50mm/s.

There are also no two step motors a380 grams on the linear guides, as you know it from MakerBot machines.

Since in most cases the much too high belt tension is more problematic on some machines.

But generally everything should order the print head around to be very compact. Perhaps you watch again a few more compact solutions to, there are so many good ones. I think a good implementation may actually need, not so powerful fan´s.

Markus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think installing Eagle just to open a schematic, create a PDF and uninstall Eagle again is a bit exaggerated. A PDF like this i found on the internet is very pleasant to the read as I find. http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/215027/Copter00.pdf

But this is only my opinion.

Back to the topic...

It looks like the Connector can deliver enough current to drive two strong fans. If the transistor gets to hot it can easily be replaced by a small FET.

 

 

Hm, 47dBA is really noisy.

Have you thought about that well?

My sample must either be buried deep under the ground, or in a well insulated enclosure. :???:

I think with two units: nearly 10CFM / 8.000RpM / 35dBA; are more than adequate.

Another example:

Everflow R124020BM 12V DC (Range: 7~13,2 V)

40x40x20mm / 3-pin Molex /2 Ball-Bearings / 8000 RpM / 34,8dBA (max. 37,8dBA) / 10,19CFM (0,29m³/min) / 1,20W (max.1,92W) / 0,10A (max.0,16A.

Markus

 

Hmm yeah that's true. 47dbA are pretty noisy.

This model looks also very good. Yes, I think also 10cfm per unit should be enough.

 

 

You shouldn't use two 40x40x20 mm fans. That's a lot of weight for the printhead.

If you really need to do that, you will probably have to print very slowly in order to prevent having problems with ringing or even skipped motor steps.

It seems most 12V fans don't have a problem with19V supply. I'm using a single Noiseblocker Blacksilent fan, 40x40x10mm, with very low airflow (same duct as mentioned above, but only left side part). Works well enough for my blocky technical prints.

I always print at 35mm/s speed. Takes long, but usually gives good results.

 

If 2x fans are too much weight for the printhead. Why are there so many designs for 2 fans? The datasheet says 30g for each fan. So with the fan duct approximately 70-80 g more. Is this to much for the motors?

I want two fan because, for example when I'm printing the UMRobot. One side is a little bit better than the other.

Yes the most fans operate without problems at 12V but I simply don't have good feeling if I operate a fan over the spec.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the UM-Robot makes also on the UM2 trouble.

There, the right-hand fan is too far away and almost ineffective.

With such an object must, as slowly as possible, as cold as possible, and at least two units simultaneously printed.

It is an optimal object-cooling required, at best, all around the nozzle, much more important than the highest possible print speed.

So I imagine it anyway.

Markus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 Fans are not by definition "too much weight". You can add a lot more weight to the X-Y carriage if you really want to. But a lighter carriage gives you many benefits which may not be so obvious to see.

Accelerating and decelerating a certain mass requires a certain force. The lower that mass, the lower the required force.

This means less stress on the belts, and less backlash or ringing when you abruptly change the moving direction of the printhead (which happens all the time, just think about infill printing...). If the motor starts skipping steps, then that is only the worst case. That doesn't mean it gets "worse" even before the motor starts to fail.

I don't know the details, and I haven't done any measurements. It's just the general direction in which you want to go. The fact that printing at lower speeds gives you a better printing quality does have something to do with the fact that lower speeds means lower acceleration forces.

It's by no means the only thing affecting the print quality, but it is one of the factors.

Having two fans is usually an improvement over having only one fan. But it shouldn't be necessary to use two extreme-power fans which sound like an airplane passing by. Using a good fan duct is more important and a lot more elegant solution than to just use brute force.

Having two fans is not about doubling the airflow, it's about making your cooling solution reach every corner of the print.

In other words: You need an appropriate fan duct :)

Also, if you use strong fans, you need to take good care that you don't cool down your nozzle, or your printer will simply clog and fail.

Again: A good fan duct and maybe even isolating the hotend with silicone or Kapton tape will give better results than just blowing with as much force as possible.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well explained, Jonny, thank you.

When choosing the 12 volt fan should also be taken to ensure they have a wide control range. There are 12 volt fans, pick up already from 4.5 volts their work. A small reserve to top sure does not hurt, especially in the summer months.

But anyway, those shown as an example fans should rather show what you can get out of such small things. I think a rocket engine, must not ever give full thrust. Maybe you can therefore use fans controller. And maybe that's why cars have gas pedals.

With a little consideration in advance, so even small and powerful fans, are very effective and also low noise, used.

Markus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

Welcome to the Ultimaker Community of 3D printing experts. Visit the following links to read more about our Terms of Use or our Privacy Policy. Thank you!