UM3 Extended wont print first layer

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Just throwing this out there, what is the humidity like? Does the air conditioning (cooling, heat, humidity) get shut off at night?

Also, could there be a bad 'wind' in the spool, something that catches enough to make it grind? And, finally, off the top of me wee head, have you taken off the feeder and made sure the filament wheel is clean? Over time, the filament issues you have had may have left schtuffs inside the knurled patterns to where it does not grip as well as it should.

[Traveler218 1]

I checked the spool and the way it is feeding, there does not appear to be a problem with that. The spool sits on a set of 608 bearings and rolls freely, with nothing obstructing the path. The edges of the spool are smooth and the filament comes off without catching on anything.

Humidity can get high in this building and yes, they turn off the A/C  at night. I hadn't really considered that as a problem. The UM3 is situated close to an A/C vent. I constructed a box to block the top and front of the unit when I was having warping problems with ABS. Lots of open space above and on the sides, but it prevents direct drafts from the A/C. It seems to help the issue. We should probably invest in the advanced printing kit, but haven't been able to spend that money yet.

I'll have to check into that last one. I used air to try and clean it out, but have not taken it apart to check on build-up on the knurled pattern.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I can attest that humidity is a major problem as at the very least, moisture can build up in the bowden tube and that can create issues. Also, while I am not sure about PETG being hygroscopic (there seems to be varying themes around about that) I did run across a bit of info about this here.

A short snippet:

PETG is hygroscopic, which means it will actively absorb moisture from the air. For this reason, PETG plastic should be stored in a cool, dry place, and dried if exposed to humid air for too long. What constitutes “too long” depends on the relative humidity in the air, but when it comes to 3D printer filament, it’s best to err on the side of making the filament “too dry” rather than allowing it to be a “little wet.”

Printing wet PETG can lead to hydrolysis which will permanently alter the filament on a molecular level, making it significantly weaker than it would be if it were printed dry.

I have also seen some places say that PETG is a bit more brittle when humidity attacks it.

Most of my worst failures in printing can be directly attributed to humidity. A lot of the other can be user error and a tiny amount of WTF? Hey, what is life without a problem to solve and a mystery to confound?

[Traveler218 1]

I have also seen major problems with "wet" filament, but mostly with ABS or Nylon. In fact I have caused damage to my home printer by not taking the time to dry ABS before printing, even though I store it in resealable bags, with desiccant, and then store those in weather tight containers, with more desiccant.

All of the early research I did indicated that PETG was not hygroscopic, and was therefore a good choice for humid environment. That's one reason I chose to use it in the work environment. The PETG I use at home is never sealed in bags, or dried, and I seldom have a failed print unless I do something stupid (which is far too often these days). Of course, being part of the "Spoiled Family" my home A/C is never turned off and we don't have wild swings in humidity.

If that is in fact what is causing my printing problems (and now that you mentioned it, it makes sense), I'm not sure how I can solve the problem. I can't control the A/C, the property managers do that, and have no way of controlling the humidity. The best I can do is bring in a food dehydrator to dry the material before starting a long print, and maybe building a sealed spool holder to limit the moisture absorption during the print.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

May I suggest building a filament drybox. There are many plans out there to design or modify from. You can just search filament drybox. Many people here may have input as to their favorite design. But, it is basically a plastic container that can be sealed with spool holders and holes drilled out to feed the filament. The container is filled with desiccant bags that can be dried when the color changes.

Also, ditto on the humidity not being something I considered as I too have the AC on during these humid months and that takes care of a lot of things. It did not occur to me until you mentioned it not wanting to print overnight and many buildings shut off the AC systems during the nights and weekends.

Also, a shroud of some sort may help with a small heating unit or dehumidifier inside the enclosure. While the polyester family is not as hygroscopic as most, it will still absorb moisture. So, a shroud that helps keep moisture out of the print area may help.

Here is a link to an article about the effects of moisture on the polyester family.

[fbrc8-erin 272]

I guess this thing just doesn't like working nights! Started out looking great, but then just started printing air. Nothing apparent with the clog, I was able to easily remove the filament. The only problem I found was the filament was chewed up at the extruder. This has happened before. Is it possible I need to slow down the print speed or reduce the flow rate?

By the way, this was a 54 hour print that failed after about 6 hours. The previous prints that I have done of <4 hours worked great. Why would it fail after a prolonged print?

Robert

 

I always keep the flow rate at 100% that way when you're adjusting speed or other settings you know exactly what you're adjusting. Was the filament tangled on the spool?

[Traveler218 1]

I always keep the flow rate at 100% that way when you're adjusting speed or other settings you know exactly what you're adjusting. Was the filament tangled on the spool?

No, the filament wasn't tangled. The extruder did chew it up pretty well, but the head did not seem to be clogged. I was able to manually purge with no problem. The print actually looked quite good up to the point that it just quit printing. Usually, there is some evidence of where it went wrong, but both times this print failed it just started printing air.

Based on several other comments, and some information I picked up from a couple other threads, I will make some adjustments and try one more time.

[SandervG 1,521]

What happened to the argument of moist influencing your filament? Has that been eliminated for some reason?

[Traveler218 1]

What happened to the argument of moist influencing your filament? Has that been eliminated for some reason?

Not eliminated altogether, but somewhat discounted. I was able to use the same filament on a TAZ6 to print the same model with no problems. That would lead me to believe it's not the filament.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

What happened to the argument of moist influencing your filament? Has that been eliminated for some reason?

Not eliminated altogether, but somewhat discounted. I was able to use the same filament on a TAZ6 to print the same model with no problems. That would lead me to believe it's not the filament.

Not to excuse the UM3, but different machines have different tolerances. To find out if it is machine specific, have you tried taking the machine home for a few days to equalize the humidity in filament and machine?

Placing the filament on a different machine can only quantify if it is working on that other machine. Not if you have a UM3 that is defective. In high end electronics, it is easy for something to go awry in manufacturing, shipping etc.

To be fair though, I am starting to lean towards defective machine as I was able to test the model with no issues on a UM3 using the same material, but not same brand.

[SandervG 1,521]

Did you make an enclosure for your Ultimaker by the way, or not?

A top cover has proven to increase the temperature too high for the print head very often, resulting in errors.

[Traveler218 1]

I made a cardboard box cover. It has about 3 inches on each side, 6 inches on the top and the back is completely open. It's main purpose is to block the A/C vent from blowing down onto the print. I originally made it when I was trying to print ABS. Using ABS I was experiencing major warping issues and the top help considerably. I have continued to use it for PETG.

When I first started using PETG I made only minor changes to the CPE profile and was able to print without a problem I ran an entire roll of PETG, with one print running 2 1/2 days. everything worked fine.

[Traveler218 1]

Here are some pictures of my Super Deluxe Advanced Printing Enclosure. It was constructed using a cardboard box, a glue gun and an exacto knife. My previous dimensions were incorrect; it has 11" clearance on top, about 6" inches above the Bowden tubes.

It even has a retractable viewing port.

[SandervG 1,521]

I would highly recommend to remove the cover (and if the AC is a problem, move the printer somewhere else too), and do a few more prints / tests.

It has happened a couple of times already that users had extrusion issues because the temperature would be too high within the enclosure and be interrupting a proper material flow. It could also be why @kmanstudios could print your model without problems, since he does not have an enclosure.

[Traveler218 1]

I would highly recommend to remove the cover (and if the AC is a problem, move the printer somewhere else too), and do a few more prints / tests.

It has happened a couple of times already that users had extrusion issues because the temperature would be too high within the enclosure and be interrupting a proper material flow. It could also be why @kmanstudios could print your model without problems, since he does not have an enclosure.

I will give it a try. I'm kind of limited where I can put the printer, which is why I built the enclosure, but will look at alternate solutions. With the clearance I provided around the sides and top, I didn't think it would be any different than the "Advanced Printing Kit" sold by Ultimaker.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I would highly recommend to remove the cover (and if the AC is a problem, move the printer somewhere else too), and do a few more prints / tests.

It has happened a couple of times already that users had extrusion issues because the temperature would be too high within the enclosure and be interrupting a proper material flow. It could also be why @kmanstudios could print your model without problems, since he does not have an enclosure.

I will give it a try. I'm kind of limited where I can put the printer, which is why I built the enclosure, but will look at alternate solutions. With the clearance I provided around the sides and top, I didn't think it would be any different than the "Advanced Printing Kit" sold by Ultimaker.

I have actually had an enclosure on the front cause a print to fail from too much heat build up.

By the way, love the box....you should call it 'Bender' And put a word balloon on it saying, "You can kiss my shiny metal print!"

[SandervG 1,521]

I would highly recommend to remove the cover (and if the AC is a problem, move the printer somewhere else too), and do a few more prints / tests.

It has happened a couple of times already that users had extrusion issues because the temperature would be too high within the enclosure and be interrupting a proper material flow. It could also be why @kmanstudios could print your model without problems, since he does not have an enclosure.

I will give it a try. I'm kind of limited where I can put the printer, which is why I built the enclosure, but will look at alternate solutions. With the clearance I provided around the sides and top, I didn't think it would be any different than the "Advanced Printing Kit" sold by Ultimaker.

I could imagine myself thinking the same, and you seem to have some openings in there as well, but given your issues and notorious reputation of enclosures causing problems I would definitely look into this plausible cause.

[Traveler218 1]

I could imagine myself thinking the same, and you seem to have some openings in there as well, but given your issues and notorious reputation of enclosures causing problems I would definitely look into this plausible cause.

The 8 1/2 hour print I ran yesterday afternoon completed without issue, even with 'Bender':) in place. Most of the print was completed during the day, so it was not affected by the A/C being turned off. The print consisted of a number of small objects with complex geometry, so even with infill set at 75%, there were no large areas of infill. I printed at 0.1 mm layer height using the same roll of PETG Filament that I have been using. The print came out extremely well, clean, smooth, no warp and very sharp edges. If all of my prints would come out this well I would have no complaints about the UM3.

I started a 16 1/2 hour print this morning, without Bender. I repositioned the UM3 to reduce the impact of the A/C vent. I even put Bender next to the UM3 hoping it's height would further block the draft. Tomorrow is an off-day but I will come by and check the print. If it is successful, I will start the 45 1/2 hour print that I need to complete for a priority project.

[SandervG 1,521]

..fingers crossed!

[Traveler218 1]

..fingers crossed!

Well, when I came in today I was delighted to see that the 16h 55min print ran without a hitch. A few fuzzies but nothing that can't be worked with. I went ahead and started the big print, again without Bender. With the current settings, that are running so well, it will take 4 days to run. A perfect print for the weekend. I guess that means I will be back once or twice to check on it, but that's the way it goes.

[Traveler218 1]

Curious question; I have never noticed this before, but when I set up the print in Cura it told me 4 days 16 hours 96 minutes print time. Once it loaded to the printer it says there is 12 hours 14 minutes and 7 seconds print time. What Gives?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Curious question; I have never noticed this before, but when I set up the print in Cura it told me 4 days 16 hours 96 minutes print time. Once it loaded to the printer it says there is 12 hours 14 minutes and 7 seconds print time. What Gives?

I have never seen something like 96 minutes. 59 yes, but nothing more than that. 96 minutes a typo?

the rest is odd too as most of my times have been pretty much spot on.

[Traveler218 1]

I assumed something went wrong and just started over

[SandervG 1,521]

@traveler218, day 3 into your 4 day print... any updates?

[Traveler218 1]

@traveler218, day 3 into your 4 day print... any updates?

Yes, It failed. It's hard to say exactly when, but it ran for at least two days. I started the print on Friday around !:00pm. I dropped by at 6:30pm after having dinner with the wife and friends and all was well. I returned again on Saturday afternoon around 4::30pm and it was still running well. Some of the supports had collapsed but aside from that it looked like it was going to be a success. I didn't make it by on Sunday, but when I cam in this morning it was printing air, with the following error.

And here is a picture of the progress:

Notice the collapsed supports. It is about a 1 1/2 inches tall at this point. Unfortunately all of the detail is on the upper section. It had just started print the case handles. Even without supports, the would have turned out well enough to work with.