SOLVED PVA material insert problems in Spool holder

[dennispo 6]

Have you guys found that PVA is twisted when inserting? And then it's blocked。

just like the photo. Always twisted with spool holder's gears.

By the way, why PVA smokes？ is it due to dampness?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I have had all of that happen due to humidity. The material smokes because it is boiling out the moisture.

Also, when it gets too moist, it binds in the bowden tube a bit and the material is too soft for the gears to push it through. That is when you get the bent up shapes from the material acting a bit like a wet noodle.

For instance, we have had a mild summer with many nights and even days I could have opened the doors, but it was too humid to do so. Thusly, I have had to run the A/C all the time to dehumidify the room air until the outside air cools and dries out more.

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @Dennispo, do you have any way to measure the humidity in the space where you print and store your PVA? How do you store your PVA?

If it is too damp, you can use these instructions to dry it again:

Heating the filament for 2 hours at 45 - 55 °C. The easiest way to do this is by putting the spools in their original packaging (in the cardboard box, without a plastic bag) on the heated bed at the required temperature (45 - 55 °C). Warning: do not use a household oven. Make sure that the PVA filament has cooled to room temperature before inserting it into the 3D printer.

[RudydG 62]

PVA and Nylon are very sensitive to humidity.

I just bought a big fooddryer, to dry my filaments (after having the "steaming" trouble with an almost full reel of ultimaker Nylon)

Dryed the nylon for 14 hours at 75 degrees celcius, and now it seems fine again.

The pva is also dried, but didn't test it yet.

I am drying all of my open reels, and after drying, i put them in a plastic box with 1kg of silica gel (the color changing type), and hope to keep them in good condition that way.

[dennispo 6]

Hi @Dennispo, do you have any way to measure the humidity in the space where you print and store your PVA? How do you store your PVA?

If it is too damp, you can use these instructions to dry it again:

Heating the filament for 2 hours at 45 - 55 °C. The easiest way to do this is by putting the spools in their original packaging (in the cardboard box, without a plastic bag) on the heated bed at the required temperature (45 - 55 °C). Warning: do not use a household oven. Make sure that the PVA filament has cooled to room temperature before inserting it into the 3D printer.

 

what is the heated bed ?

[SandervG 1,521]

Hi @Dennispo, thank you for your reply.

Your heated bed is basically your build platform. So your Z-stage+glass bed. A build platform can be either heated or non-heated. Among some other of the 3D printers you seem to have, your Ultimaker 3 has a heated bed. It means that it can heat up, which can improve the adhesion for some materials and prevent other failures.

If you heat it up and follow the previous instructions, the heat coming from your build plate can vaporize the moist in your PVA. Let me know if this is not clear

Here is also a picture with the arrow pointing to your heated bed: http://take.ms/0iiKg

Edited September 13, 2017 by Guest

[dennispo 6]

Hi @Dennispo, thank you for your reply.

Your heated bed is basically your build platform. So your Z-stage+glass bed. A build platform can be either heated or non-heated. Among some other of the 3D printers you seem to have, your Ultimaker 3 has a heated bed. It means that it can heat up, which can improve the adhesion for some materials and prevent other failures.

If you heat it up and follow the previous instructions, the heat coming from your build plate can vaporize the moist in your PVA. Let me know if this is not clear

Here is also a picture with the arrow pointing to your heated bed: http://take.ms/0iiKg

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I made the dryer box to do dehumidify. It's still stuck in the gear and abort sending the filament. Then the printer stop printing the support structure and the part is failure.

Almost every time it happens when I print. The picture below shows the cutting area. So how to adjust? the sending speed or the pressure?

[dennispo 6]

Hi @Dennispo, thank you for your reply.

Your heated bed is basically your build platform. So your Z-stage+glass bed. A build platform can be either heated or non-heated. Among some other of the 3D printers you seem to have, your Ultimaker 3 has a heated bed. It means that it can heat up, which can improve the adhesion for some materials and prevent other failures.

If you heat it up and follow the previous instructions, the heat coming from your build plate can vaporize the moist in your PVA. Let me know if this is not clear

Here is also a picture with the arrow pointing to your heated bed: http://take.ms/0iiKg

[kmanstudios 1,120]

As I look at your images, it seems your dry box has stopped the softening of the materials so that it no longer coils or compresses in your feeder. Is this correct?

As for it being ground and cut into, have you tried to adjust your feeder tension? Also, have you blown out the filament dust in the unit?

Here is a link that will help with that.

Also, if your feeder unit has ground up materials into the knurled wheel inside the feeder, it may be making it too smooth to grip the material well. As the filaments grind, small particles of plastic can wedge into the tiny spaces and basically fill it in so that it no longer can grip against the filaments. You may need to take the feeder box off to take a look at the wheel inside.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Guest

[SandervG 1,521]

Thank you for reply @Dennispo.

I'm sorry to hear you still seem to have issues with your PVA. Do you have any idea what percentage of humidity you are dealing with in your printing area?

This can give us an idea of what it is you are approximately dealing with.

The drybox seems like a good idea, however a good idea does not always automatically mean success.

I drew 2 arrows in this screenshot.

At the BIG arrow, this is where the filament is exposed to your environment right?

Is it always out like that, during a print and when not printing?

If your office is really humid, even being out for a few hours may already be too much.

For the small arrow, how did you ensure that the reel of PVA can rotate freely?

Perhaps you have solved the humidity problem with your drybox, but the reel can not rotate and therefor the feeder has more difficulties pulling it in. With the PVA being a little bit softer it causes grinding.

Secondly in this theory, the drybox seems to stand on the side of your Ultimaker. This makes the angle to enter your feeder very steep, which is not recommendable. I would recommend to put it close and straight to the feeder.

Curious to hear your thoughts, hopefully we can help!

[dennispo 6]

As I look at your images, it seems your dry box has stopped the softening of the materials so that it no longer coils or compresses in your feeder. Is this correct?

As for it being ground and cut into, have you tried to adjust your feeder tension? Also, have you blown out the filament dust in the unit?

Here is a link that will help with that.

Also, if your feeder unit has ground up materials into the knurled wheel inside the feeder, it may be making it too smooth to grip the material well. As the filaments grind, small particles of plastic can wedge into the tiny spaces and basically fill it in so that it no longer can grip against the filaments. You may need to take the feeder box off to take a look at the wheel inside.

Thank you very much, I will read and try!

[dennispo 6]

Thank you for reply @Dennispo.

I'm sorry to hear you still seem to have issues with your PVA. Do you have any idea what percentage of humidity you are dealing with in your printing area?

This can give us an idea of what it is you are approximately dealing with.

The drybox seems like a good idea, however a good idea does not always automatically mean success.

I drew 2 arrows in this screenshot.

At the BIG arrow, this is where the filament is exposed to your environment right?

Is it always out like that, during a print and when not printing?

If your office is really humid, even being out for a few hours may already be too much.

For the small arrow, how did you ensure that the reel of PVA can rotate freely?

Perhaps you have solved the humidity problem with your drybox, but the reel can not rotate and therefor the feeder has more difficulties pulling it in. With the PVA being a little bit softer it causes grinding.

Secondly in this theory, the drybox seems to stand on the side of your Ultimaker. This makes the angle to enter your feeder very steep, which is not recommendable. I would recommend to put it close and straight to the feeder.

Curious to hear your thoughts, hopefully we can help!

I see. It's just open for a while. And I will try more times. Thank you very much!

[dennispo 6]

Thank you for reply @Dennispo.

I'm sorry to hear you still seem to have issues with your PVA. Do you have any idea what percentage of humidity you are dealing with in your printing area?

This can give us an idea of what it is you are approximately dealing with.

The drybox seems like a good idea, however a good idea does not always automatically mean success.

I drew 2 arrows in this screenshot.

At the BIG arrow, this is where the filament is exposed to your environment right?

Is it always out like that, during a print and when not printing?

If your office is really humid, even being out for a few hours may already be too much.

For the small arrow, how did you ensure that the reel of PVA can rotate freely?

Perhaps you have solved the humidity problem with your drybox, but the reel can not rotate and therefor the feeder has more difficulties pulling it in. With the PVA being a little bit softer it causes grinding.

Secondly in this theory, the drybox seems to stand on the side of your Ultimaker. This makes the angle to enter your feeder very steep, which is not recommendable. I would recommend to put it close and straight to the feeder.

Curious to hear your thoughts, hopefully we can help!

I am going to buy a hygrometer to measure the percentage of humidity. We are in the south of China, but it's quite good status in the north of China. Is it really so sensitive to humidity?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I am going to buy a hygrometer to measure the percentage of humidity.  We are in the south of China, but it's quite good status in the north of China. Is it really so sensitive to humidity?

 

I have been to Hong Kong, Shenzhen and Guangzhou and if your humidity is anything like that, then yep, I am surprised it did not turn to near liquid. And, yes, PVA, any PVA, is that sensitive to moisture in the air.

[SandervG 1,521]

Jep, PVA is very sensitive to moisture. Nylon is also pretty sensitive, but not all 3D print materials share this sensitivity.

[dennispo 6]

Thank you for your guys.

If I use in the south of China, such as Shenzhen, how would I solve this kind of problem?

@SandervG

@kmanstudios

[SandervG 1,521]

I would recommend to store your filament in a resealable bag with some desiccant. That way it will be preserved the best and the longest. Depending on how humid your environment is, you can mount the full reel on your Ultimaker or you could cut off the amount of filament you need (Cura will tell you the length).

If it is even too humid to use during the print, you should look into solutions like a drybox, like this one: https://www.youmagine.com/designs/pva-reel-casing

When your filament is too humid, it is not lost. Heating the filament for 2 hours at 45 - 55 °C will help. The easiest way to do this is by putting the spools in their original packaging (in a cardboard box, without a plastic bag) on the heated bed at the required temperature (45 - 55 °C). Warning: do not use a household oven. Make sure that the PVA filament has cooled to room temperature before inserting it into the 3D printer. Good luck!

[dennispo 6]

I would recommend to store your filament in a resealable bag with some desiccant. That way it will be preserved the best and the longest. Depending on how humid your environment is, you can mount the full reel on your Ultimaker or you could cut off the amount of filament you need (Cura will tell you the length).

If it is even too humid to use during the print, you should look into solutions like a drybox, like this one: https://www.youmagine.com/designs/pva-reel-casing

When your filament is too humid, it is not lost. Heating the filament for 2 hours at 45 - 55 °C will help. The easiest way to do this is by putting the spools in their original packaging (in a cardboard box, without a plastic bag) on the heated bed at the required temperature (45 - 55 °C). Warning: do not use a household oven. Make sure that the PVA filament has cooled to room temperature before inserting it into the 3D printer. Good luck!

 

Thank you !