Spiralized mode, howto?

[leliep 28]

I'm trying to learn how to use the the spiralized mode. Not satisfied yet, because I expected that there would be no seam, but there is one, see image.

 

What am I doing wrong? And what is causing the other faults in the surface?

 

Material used: PLA

Temperature: 220°C

AA 0.8mm print core

 

Cura 3.1 and 3.2.1. 

 

 

[yellowshark 153]

What is your layer height and print speed- no way of knowing if extruder temp is ok without them. Several years since I played with spiralize so this is somewhat of a guess.

 

Turn off retraction; set your line widths to 0.8 with 1 wall. If you are not printing slow then printing slower may help. I doubt I ran mine at more than 30mm/s

 

Yes the z-scar or whatever it is strange because I do not think the print head has any travel moves in spiralize; something to do with an 0.8mmnozzle I wonder. Certainly not a problem I ever experienced. 

 

No idea if you are an expert with a .8mm nozzle, remember you are pushing out twice as much material per sec. so you may want to do some testing with a simple cube to get the extruder temp spot on.

[burtoogle 513]

Hi, to help understand this could you please post some gcode, I don't really need to see it all, just the gcode for the last few layers would be enough. Please include the settings at the end of the gcode file.

[leliep 28]

On 24.2.2018 at 12:17 AM, yellowshark said:

What is your layer height and print speed- no way of knowing if extruder temp is ok without them. Several years since I played with spiralize so this is somewhat of a guess.

 

Turn off retraction; set your line widths to 0.8 with 1 wall. If you are not printing slow then printing slower may help. I doubt I ran mine at more than 30mm/s

 

Yes the z-scar or whatever it is strange because I do not think the print head has any travel moves in spiralize; something to do with an 0.8mmnozzle I wonder. Certainly not a problem I ever experienced. 

 

No idea if you are an expert with a .8mm nozzle, remember you are pushing out twice as much material per sec. so you may want to do some testing with a simple cube to get the extruder temp spot on.

Thanks for your responses and recommendations!

 

Seems the problem with the faults in the walls goes away with reduced print speed, so this should not be a problem any more.

 

I have attached a photo with different samples, the evolution goes from left to the right side. Parts 1, 2 and 7 (from left to right) were printed with the AA0.8 nozzle and all of them have a seam. I tried this with 0.8, 0.4 and 0.2mm layer size, no change. During printing you can see that the print stops shortly at every complete layer. This is independent from the retraction setting (on or off).

 

The objects 3, 4, 5 adn 6 (from left to right) were printed with the AA0.4 nozzle. After reducing the print speed they all came out perfectly, without any seam. The printing was one continuous spiral. Layer size 0.2.

 

So basically one question remains: is it possible to use the spiralized mode, without a seam, with the 0.8mm nozzle and what are the required settings?

 

Thanks for listening ;-)

 

[leliep 28]

4 hours ago, smartavionics said:

Hi, to help understand this could you please post some gcode, I don't really need to see it all, just the gcode for the last few layers would be enough. Please include the settings at the end of the gcode file.

 

 

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;TIME_ELAPSED:635.420945
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G90 ;Disable relative movement
M82 ;absolute extrusion mode
M104 T0 S0
M104 S0
;End of Gcode

(seems there is no seamless change of layers, although the z values are incrementing continuously)

 

Settings:

Please see attached screenshots.

 

[yellowshark 153]

Looks like you have some nice results there. What filament were you using, I might want to try it! You now have the right settings for you 0.4 nozzle. I cannot see what the difference would be; all you are doing is printing a wider wall so I see no reason why it would not work with 0.8mm; I have had some really nice results with a 0.8mm (not spiralizing). As I said you are needing to push though twice as much material so I would use your 0.4 settings but push the extruder temp up 5 and/or 10 degrees to see what happens. I do not know why the print would stop shortly at very layer change, although clearly that is causing your vertical mark. 

[leliep 28]

1 minute ago, yellowshark said:

Looks like you have some nice results there. What filament were you using, I might want to try it! You now have the right settings for you 0.4 nozzle. I cannot see what the difference would be; all you are doing is printing a wider wall so I see no reason why it would not work with 0.8mm; I have had some really nice results with a 0.8mm (not spiralizing). As I said you are needing to push though twice as much material so I would use your 0.4 settings but push the extruder temp up 5 and/or 10 degrees to see what happens. I do not know why the print would stop shortly at very layer change, although clearly that is causing your vertical mark. 

 

Yes, besides the seam it looks nice. Going up a bit with the extruder temp seems to help avoiding the faults, as well as reducing the print speed.

But how can I get rid of the seam when using the AA0.8 nozzle?

 

Will try to dive into the g-code and compare the .4 and .8 codes. Maybe that could help to understand what's happening here.

 

 

Btw., I'm using Filamentworld PLA clear (PLA300XCLR). It comes on a bigger spool, which makes it impossible to put another spool on the UM3 spool holder. And yes, I printed and tried the alternative spool holder, but am not satisfied with the construction. So I changed back to the UM3 genuine holder.

 

  

[yellowshark 153]

Sorry but I am getting to the limit of my knowledge as I have only used a 0.8 a few times and l always got perfect results. I am guessing that the printer stopping at the end of each layer each layer is causing the problem, well not really guessing, that will be the cause; but why the printer would do that with a 0.8mm  I have no idea.

 

Ok I looked at your settings more closely. I would suggest you change them as follows 

wall thickness  0.8  (and 0.4 for your 0.4 nozzle)

z-seam alignment to random

(probably) infill to 0   There is no infill when spiraliziing - there might be a Cura bug if you had a figure in there

print speed - ypu pic is not showing all the print speeds; find them and set them all to the same value (1st layer print speed can be different)

 

 

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Disabling retractions on layer change got rid of my z-Scar.

To help make it as clear as possible, take what @yellowshark has said and add a pinch of this: Usually, all layers are less that the nozzle width. In cross section, this presents an oval. Try to make your layer height about as equal as you can with nozzle width. You may even have to slow speeds down a bit more.

 

And, I just finished a few experiments about nozzle line widths: I have been pushing my 0.4mm Nozzle to 0.64. I am getting strong walls.

Edited February 25, 2018 by kmanstudios

[burtoogle 513]

Hi, thanks for posting the gcode, I can see there that you are getting a retraction at layer change, so just disable the retract at layer change option and the z-scar should go away. FYI, there is already a mod (https://github.com/Ultimaker/CuraEngine/pull/694) to ignore the retract on layer change if spiralization is enabled but it hasn't yet made it into Cura.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

3 hours ago, smartavionics said:

Hi, thanks for posting the gcode, I can see there that you are getting a retraction at layer change, so just disable the retract at layer change option and the z-scar should go away. FYI, there is already a mod (https://github.com/Ultimaker/CuraEngine/pull/694) to ignore the retract on layer change if spiralization is enabled but it hasn't yet made it into Cura.

That would be nice! Thanks for letting us know

[leliep 28]

11 hours ago, smartavionics said:

Hi, thanks for posting the gcode, I can see there that you are getting a retraction at layer change, so just disable the retract at layer change option and the z-scar should go away. FYI, there is already a mod (https://github.com/Ultimaker/CuraEngine/pull/694) to ignore the retract on layer change if spiralization is enabled but it hasn't yet made it into Cura.

This would be very helpful.

 

As you guys suggested, I played around with the settings and as it turned out, the retraction setting was the culprit for the seam. I disabled it and set the layer height to 0.4mm, speed 25mm/sec, inreased the extruder temperature to 210°C and voila! (Compare before/after version in the photo)

 

Thanks for all your kind support!

[eldrick 65]

Quote

Try to make your layer height about as equal as you can with nozzle width. 

That won't work. Layer height should be set between .3 and .7 of nozzle size. No way is a .4 nozzle going to print a .4mm layer.

[burtoogle 513]

4 minutes ago, eldrick said:

That won't work. Layer height should be set between .3 and .7 of nozzle size. No way is a .4 nozzle going to print a .4mm layer.

Hmm, well, I have a particular part that is printed in PETG using a 0.4mm nozzle and the first layer is 0.4mm thick (other layers are 0.2mm thick) and it prints just fine.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

1 hour ago, eldrick said:

That won't work. Layer height should be set between .3 and .7 of nozzle size. No way is a .4 nozzle going to print a .4mm layer.

Ummmm, yes it will. Ya just gotta play wid it. I have made prints like that. It is like watching a tube of toothpaste getting laid down like a coil. Betcha betcha

[leliep 28]

57 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

Ummmm, yes it will. Ya just gotta play wid it. I have made prints like that. It is like watching a tube of toothpaste getting laid down like a coil. Betcha betcha

I would suppose that it works only on nonstructured, vertical walls, doesn‘t it?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

Vase mode will only work within certain slopes regardless. It was just a technique and philosophy I picked up from learning how to print t-glase materials.