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Spiralized mode, howto?

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I'm trying to learn how to use the the spiralized mode. Not satisfied yet, because I expected that there would be no seam, but there is one, see image.

 

What am I doing wrong? And what is causing the other faults in the surface?

 

Material used: PLA

Temperature: 220°C

AA 0.8mm print core

 

Cura 3.1 and 3.2.1. 

 

 

IMG_0773.jpg

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What is your layer height and print speed- no way of knowing if extruder temp is ok without them. Several years since I played with spiralize so this is somewhat of a guess.

 

Turn off retraction; set your line widths to 0.8 with 1 wall. If you are not printing slow then printing slower may help. I doubt I ran mine at more than 30mm/s

 

Yes the z-scar or whatever it is strange because I do not think the print head has any travel moves in spiralize; something to do with an 0.8mmnozzle I wonder. Certainly not a problem I ever experienced. 

 

No idea if you are an expert with a .8mm nozzle, remember you are pushing out twice as much material per sec. so you may want to do some testing with a simple cube to get the extruder temp spot on.

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On 24.2.2018 at 12:17 AM, yellowshark said:

What is your layer height and print speed- no way of knowing if extruder temp is ok without them. Several years since I played with spiralize so this is somewhat of a guess.

 

Turn off retraction; set your line widths to 0.8 with 1 wall. If you are not printing slow then printing slower may help. I doubt I ran mine at more than 30mm/s

 

Yes the z-scar or whatever it is strange because I do not think the print head has any travel moves in spiralize; something to do with an 0.8mmnozzle I wonder. Certainly not a problem I ever experienced. 

 

No idea if you are an expert with a .8mm nozzle, remember you are pushing out twice as much material per sec. so you may want to do some testing with a simple cube to get the extruder temp spot on.

Thanks for your responses and recommendations!

 

Seems the problem with the faults in the walls goes away with reduced print speed, so this should not be a problem any more.

 

I have attached a photo with different samples, the evolution goes from left to the right side. Parts 1, 2 and 7 (from left to right) were printed with the AA0.8 nozzle and all of them have a seam. I tried this with 0.8, 0.4 and 0.2mm layer size, no change. During printing you can see that the print stops shortly at every complete layer. This is independent from the retraction setting (on or off).

 

The objects 3, 4, 5 adn 6 (from left to right) were printed with the AA0.4 nozzle. After reducing the print speed they all came out perfectly, without any seam. The printing was one continuous spiral. Layer size 0.2.

 

So basically one question remains: is it possible to use the spiralized mode, without a seam, with the 0.8mm nozzle and what are the required settings?

 

Thanks for listening ;-)

 

IMG_0812.jpg

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4 hours ago, smartavionics said:

Hi, to help understand this could you please post some gcode, I don't really need to see it all, just the gcode for the last few layers would be enough. Please include the settings at the end of the gcode file.

 

 

G1 X79.799 Y113.449 Z19.811 E492.31178
G1 X79.465 Y112.275 Z19.815 E492.36918
G1 X79.212 Y111.117 Z19.818 E492.42493
G1 X79.023 Y109.9 Z19.822 E492.48284
G1 X78.913 Y108.717 Z19.826 E492.53872
G1 X78.875 Y107.5 Z19.83 E492.59598
G1 X78.913 Y106.281 Z19.834 E492.65333
G1 X79.023 Y105.1 Z19.838 E492.70911
G1 X79.212 Y103.883 Z19.842 E492.76703
G1 X79.465 Y102.725 Z19.846 E492.82277
G1 X79.799 Y101.551 Z19.85 E492.88017
G1 X80.205 Y100.4 Z19.854 E492.93756
G1 X80.667 Y99.308 Z19.858 E492.99332
G1 X81.213 Y98.212 Z19.862 E493.05091
G1 X81.809 Y97.178 Z19.866 E493.10703
G1 X82.489 Y96.152 Z19.87 E493.16491
;TIME_ELAPSED:635.420945
;LAYER:49
G1 F1500 E486.66491
M204 S4000
M204 S500
;TYPE:WALL-OUTER
G1 F900 E493.16491
G1 F1140 X83.203 Y95.206 Z19.873 E493.22065
G1 X84.005 Y94.27 Z19.877 E493.27862
G1 X84.83 Y93.419 Z19.881 E493.33435
G1 X85.736 Y92.593 Z19.885 E493.39201
G1 X86.669 Y91.842 Z19.889 E493.44833
G1 X87.656 Y91.144 Z19.893 E493.50518
G1 X88.698 Y90.498 Z19.897 E493.56284
G1 X89.742 Y89.938 Z19.901 E493.61855
G1 X90.854 Y89.426 Z19.905 E493.67612
G1 X91.983 Y88.989 Z19.909 E493.73305
G1 X93.123 Y88.626 Z19.913 E493.78932
G1 X94.298 Y88.33 Z19.917 E493.8463
G1 X95.499 Y88.106 Z19.92 E493.90375
G1 X96.692 Y87.958 Z19.924 E493.96028
G1 X97.891 Y87.884 Z19.928 E494.01678
G1 X99.109 Y87.884 Z19.932 E494.07405
G1 X100.308 Y87.958 Z19.936 E494.13055
G1 X101.501 Y88.106 Z19.94 E494.18708
G1 X102.702 Y88.33 Z19.944 E494.24453
G1 X103.877 Y88.626 Z19.948 E494.30152
G1 X105.017 Y88.989 Z19.952 E494.35778
G1 X106.146 Y89.426 Z19.956 E494.41471
G1 X107.258 Y89.938 Z19.96 E494.47228
G1 X108.302 Y90.498 Z19.964 E494.52799
G1 X109.344 Y91.144 Z19.968 E494.58565
G1 X110.331 Y91.842 Z19.971 E494.6425
G1 X111.264 Y92.593 Z19.975 E494.69882
G1 X112.17 Y93.419 Z19.979 E494.75648
G1 X112.995 Y94.27 Z19.983 E494.81221
G1 X113.797 Y95.206 Z19.987 E494.87018
G1 X114.511 Y96.152 Z19.991 E494.92592
G1 X115.191 Y97.178 Z19.995 E494.9838
G1 X115.787 Y98.212 Z19.999 E495.03992
G1 X116.333 Y99.308 Z20.003 E495.09751
G1 X116.795 Y100.4 Z20.007 E495.15327
G1 X117.201 Y101.551 Z20.011 E495.21066
G1 X117.535 Y102.725 Z20.015 E495.26806
G1 X117.788 Y103.883 Z20.018 E495.32381
G1 X117.977 Y105.1 Z20.022 E495.38172
G1 X118.087 Y106.281 Z20.026 E495.4375
G1 X118.125 Y107.5 Z20.03 E495.49485
G1 X118.087 Y108.717 Z20.034 E495.55211
G1 X117.977 Y109.9 Z20.038 E495.60799
G1 X117.788 Y111.117 Z20.042 E495.6659
G1 X117.535 Y112.275 Z20.046 E495.72165
G1 X117.201 Y113.449 Z20.05 E495.77905
G1 X116.795 Y114.6 Z20.054 E495.83644
G1 X116.333 Y115.692 Z20.058 E495.8922
G1 X115.787 Y116.788 Z20.062 E495.94978
G1 X115.191 Y117.822 Z20.066 E496.00591
G1 X114.513 Y118.844 Z20.069 E496.06359
G1 X113.797 Y119.794 Z20.073 E496.11953
G1 X112.999 Y120.726 Z20.077 E496.17723
G1 X112.17 Y121.581 Z20.081 E496.23323
G1 X111.264 Y122.407 Z20.085 E496.29089
G1 X110.331 Y123.158 Z20.089 E496.34721
G1 X109.344 Y123.856 Z20.093 E496.40406
G1 X108.302 Y124.502 Z20.097 E496.46172
G1 X107.258 Y125.062 Z20.101 E496.51743
G1 X106.146 Y125.574 Z20.105 E496.575
G1 X105.017 Y126.011 Z20.109 E496.63193
G1 X103.877 Y126.374 Z20.113 E496.68819
G1 X102.702 Y126.67 Z20.117 E496.74518
G1 X101.501 Y126.894 Z20.12 E496.80263
G1 X100.308 Y127.042 Z20.124 E496.85916
G1 X99.109 Y127.116 Z20.128 E496.91565
G1 X97.891 Y127.116 Z20.132 E496.97293
G1 X96.692 Y127.042 Z20.136 E497.02942
G1 X95.499 Y126.894 Z20.14 E497.08596
G1 X94.298 Y126.67 Z20.144 E497.14341
G1 X93.123 Y126.374 Z20.148 E497.20039
G1 X91.983 Y126.011 Z20.152 E497.25666
G1 X90.854 Y125.574 Z20.156 E497.31359
G1 X89.742 Y125.062 Z20.16 E497.37116
G1 X88.698 Y124.502 Z20.164 E497.42687
G1 X87.656 Y123.856 Z20.168 E497.48453
G1 X86.669 Y123.158 Z20.171 E497.54137
G1 X85.736 Y122.407 Z20.175 E497.5977
G1 X84.83 Y121.581 Z20.179 E497.65535
G1 X84.001 Y120.726 Z20.183 E497.71136
G1 X83.203 Y119.794 Z20.187 E497.76906
G1 X82.487 Y118.844 Z20.191 E497.825
G1 X81.809 Y117.822 Z20.195 E497.88268
G1 X81.213 Y116.788 Z20.199 E497.9388
G1 X80.667 Y115.692 Z20.203 E497.99638
G1 X80.205 Y114.6 Z20.207 E498.05214
G1 X79.799 Y113.449 Z20.211 E498.10954
G1 X79.465 Y112.275 Z20.215 E498.16694
G1 X79.212 Y111.117 Z20.218 E498.22268
G1 X79.023 Y109.9 Z20.222 E498.2806
G1 X78.913 Y108.717 Z20.226 E498.33647
G1 X78.875 Y107.5 Z20.23 E498.39373
G1 X78.913 Y106.281 Z20.234 E498.45108
G1 X79.023 Y105.1 Z20.238 E498.50686
G1 X79.212 Y103.883 Z20.242 E498.56478
G1 X79.465 Y102.725 Z20.246 E498.62052
G1 X79.799 Y101.551 Z20.25 E498.67792
G1 X80.205 Y100.4 Z20.254 E498.73532
G1 X80.667 Y99.308 Z20.258 E498.79108
G1 X81.213 Y98.212 Z20.262 E498.84866
G1 X81.809 Y97.178 Z20.266 E498.90479
G1 X82.489 Y96.152 Z20.27 E498.96267
;TIME_ELAPSED:642.614178
G1 F1500 E492.46267
M204 S3000
M205 X20 Y20
M107
G91 ;Relative movement
G0 F15000 X8.0 Z0.5 E-4.5 ;Wiping+material retraction
G0 F10000 Z1.5 E4.5 ;Compensation for the retraction
G90 ;Disable relative movement
M82 ;absolute extrusion mode
M104 T0 S0
M104 S0
;End of Gcode

(seems there is no seamless change of layers, although the z values are incrementing continuously)

 

Settings:

Please see attached screenshots.

 

Bildschirmfoto 2018-02-25 um 12.24.11.png

Bildschirmfoto 2018-02-25 um 12.25.03.png

Bildschirmfoto 2018-02-25 um 12.25.27.png

Bildschirmfoto 2018-02-25 um 12.26.34.png

Bildschirmfoto 2018-02-25 um 12.26.49.png

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Looks like you have some nice results there:). What filament were you using, I might want to try it! You now have the right settings for you 0.4 nozzle. I cannot see what the difference would be; all you are doing is printing a wider wall so I see no reason why it would not work with 0.8mm; I have had some really nice results with a 0.8mm (not spiralizing). As I said you are needing to push though twice as much material so I would use your 0.4 settings but push the extruder temp up 5 and/or 10 degrees to see what happens. I do not know why the print would stop shortly at very layer change, although clearly that is causing your vertical mark. 

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1 minute ago, yellowshark said:

Looks like you have some nice results there:). What filament were you using, I might want to try it! You now have the right settings for you 0.4 nozzle. I cannot see what the difference would be; all you are doing is printing a wider wall so I see no reason why it would not work with 0.8mm; I have had some really nice results with a 0.8mm (not spiralizing). As I said you are needing to push though twice as much material so I would use your 0.4 settings but push the extruder temp up 5 and/or 10 degrees to see what happens. I do not know why the print would stop shortly at very layer change, although clearly that is causing your vertical mark. 

 

Yes, besides the seam it looks nice. Going up a bit with the extruder temp seems to help avoiding the faults, as well as reducing the print speed.

But how can I get rid of the seam when using the AA0.8 nozzle?

 

Will try to dive into the g-code and compare the .4 and .8 codes. Maybe that could help to understand what's happening here.

 

 

Btw., I'm using Filamentworld PLA clear (PLA300XCLR). It comes on a bigger spool, which makes it impossible to put another spool on the UM3 spool holder. And yes, I printed and tried the alternative spool holder, but am not satisfied with the construction. So I changed back to the UM3 genuine holder.

 

  

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Sorry but I am getting to the limit of my knowledge as I have only used a 0.8 a few times and l always got perfect results. I am guessing that the printer stopping at the end of each layer each layer is causing the problem, well not really guessing, that will be the cause; but why the printer would do that with a 0.8mm  I have no idea.

 

Ok I looked at your settings more closely. I would suggest you change them as follows 

wall thickness  0.8  (and 0.4 for your 0.4 nozzle)

z-seam alignment to random

(probably) infill to 0   There is no infill when spiraliziing - there might be a Cura bug if you had a figure in there

print speed - ypu pic is not showing all the print speeds; find them and set them all to the same value (1st layer print speed can be different)

 

 

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Disabling retractions on layer change got rid of my z-Scar.

To help make it as clear as possible, take what @yellowshark has said and add a pinch of this: Usually, all layers are less that the nozzle width. In cross section, this presents an oval. Try to make your layer height about as equal as you can with nozzle width. You may even have to slow speeds down a bit more.

 

And, I just finished a few experiments about nozzle line widths: I have been pushing my 0.4mm Nozzle to 0.64. I am getting strong walls.

Edited by kmanstudios

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Hi, thanks for posting the gcode, I can see there that you are getting a retraction at layer change, so just disable the retract at layer change option and the z-scar should go away. FYI, there is already a mod (https://github.com/Ultimaker/CuraEngine/pull/694) to ignore the retract on layer change if spiralization is enabled but it hasn't yet made it into Cura.

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3 hours ago, smartavionics said:

Hi, thanks for posting the gcode, I can see there that you are getting a retraction at layer change, so just disable the retract at layer change option and the z-scar should go away. FYI, there is already a mod (https://github.com/Ultimaker/CuraEngine/pull/694) to ignore the retract on layer change if spiralization is enabled but it hasn't yet made it into Cura.

That would be nice! Thanks for letting us know :)

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11 hours ago, smartavionics said:

Hi, thanks for posting the gcode, I can see there that you are getting a retraction at layer change, so just disable the retract at layer change option and the z-scar should go away. FYI, there is already a mod (https://github.com/Ultimaker/CuraEngine/pull/694) to ignore the retract on layer change if spiralization is enabled but it hasn't yet made it into Cura.

This would be very helpful.

 

As you guys suggested, I played around with the settings and as it turned out, the retraction setting was the culprit for the seam. I disabled it and set the layer height to 0.4mm, speed 25mm/sec, inreased the extruder temperature to 210°C and voila! (Compare before/after version in the photo)

 

Thanks for all your kind support!

CC54D695-4BA1-41B5-A9C8-FD10E0A106BF.jpeg

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Quote

Try to make your layer height about as equal as you can with nozzle width. 

That won't work. Layer height should be set between .3 and .7 of nozzle size. No way is a .4 nozzle going to print a .4mm layer.

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4 minutes ago, eldrick said:

That won't work. Layer height should be set between .3 and .7 of nozzle size. No way is a .4 nozzle going to print a .4mm layer.

Hmm, well, I have a particular part that is printed in PETG using a 0.4mm nozzle and the first layer is 0.4mm thick (other layers are 0.2mm thick) and it prints just fine.

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1 hour ago, eldrick said:

That won't work. Layer height should be set between .3 and .7 of nozzle size. No way is a .4 nozzle going to print a .4mm layer.

Ummmm, yes it will. Ya just gotta play wid it. I have made prints like that. It is like watching a tube of toothpaste getting laid down like a coil. Betcha betcha :)

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57 minutes ago, kmanstudios said:

Ummmm, yes it will. Ya just gotta play wid it. I have made prints like that. It is like watching a tube of toothpaste getting laid down like a coil. Betcha betcha :)

I would suppose that it works only on nonstructured, vertical walls, doesn‘t it?

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