CPE/PETG underextrusion on UM3.

[ScarletImpaler 0]

Hello, 

I've been having under extrusion and jamming issues when using eSun black PETG on my UM3, and I can't figure it out. I've been using the same exact filament and settings on my UM2 and the prints have been coming out perfectly on that. The jams haven't been serious jams, and easily cleaned out. I cleaned out the bowden motor and gears, which helped a bit, screwed the lever all the way down, which also helped a bit, but the underextrustion and/or general quality is still extremely poor. Increasing temp more didn't seem to help. 

Settings:
240 hot end
60mm/s
80 bed

Fan off
4.5mm retraction

In the attached pic, the left model was printed out on my UM2 and the right model out of my UM3. 

 

In the second pic, top is UM2 and bottom is UM3. Even before the big issues, the UM3 was printing at significantly less quality than the UM2. 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by ScarletImpaler
Update.

[jffry7 12]

I dont have ESUN PETG but I print with CPE and PET+ and I run them at 245C and around 50mm/s on a UM3 and I dont have under extrusion. Even  the CPE+ black from UM also prints well at 245-250C. This might be lame but have you tried increasing temp and decreasing speed?

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I will ahve to agree that I have used CPE and PETG with no issues. I am not fond of CPE for other reasons than the way it prints. But my experiences with PETG have been no issues. But I would not use Esun because it seems to be a bit cheaply made and not up to rigorous standards.

[ScarletImpaler 0]

Great. Now its jamming on Protopasta HTPLA v3. It lays down the first layer or so, then jams. 

260 hotend, 70 bed, 30mm speed. 

Print core isn't even a few months old. Only PLA and PETG through it.

Edited July 24, 2018 by ScarletImpaler

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I cannot help you with anything Protopasta....sorry about that. But, did you do a thorough cleaning between each filament change? If there are any pieces, no matter how small, left in the nozzle of a high temp material when you run a low temp material, it will cause serious clogs and requires a series of high temp hot pulls and then cold pulls until your filament has a very nice, clean bullet shaped end when you pull it out.

[ScarletImpaler 0]

Yes, and it printed standard PLA just fine. I'm in the process of trying out different print cores. 

[kmanstudios 1,120]

OK, so that rules out the high temp/low temp issues I raised. Again, I am not sure about the Protopasta stuff though. But, I would be interested in the nozzle switch out results.

[jffry7 12]

I havent use HTPLA so take it with a grain of salt. I have checked proto pasta and they are recommending HTPLA to print between 200-250C and 250C is just for better layer bonding, why go with 260C? just curious. Does printing proto pasta with 210-220C and 40-60 Speed cause jams as well? I know you are an expert but we are just trying to understand why its causing problems. I have tried different PLA and depending on what additive my print settings will change as it will jam or under-extrudes. The PLA of UM also under extrudes with extreme settings such as 195C @ 80mm/s. Basically what I am saying (but you may already have done it) is that you may try to dial in the settings for specifics filament specially 3rd party. If already done then there might be a problem on the nozzle.

 

oh almost forgot, the tension spring at the extruder also helps, my RS Online Glow in the dark PLA filament dont like tight tension and causes jam at any temperature/speed. Print well with like 1mm gap on the indicator.

[kmanstudios 1,120]

I know I am watching this thread as a learning experience myself. All input has been put into my head for further reference.

 

But, @jffry7makes an interesting point in that any material that is printed too low in temp and too fast will jam, no matter what brand or type.

 

And, as mentioned, maybe too high a temp caused some heat creep into the nozzle a bit?

 

Looking forward to seeing if it is the nozzle or other issues. :)

 

[jffry7 12]

Heat creep seems to be culprit thats why I ask also if printing HTPLA at 210-220 at 40-60mm/s will cause jam, as it might indicate the problem elsewhere.

 

I too would like to know but more that I hope he managed to good print with a good printer such as UM3. Tho I will not say its perfect, we just all learn what makes our printer tick.

[ScarletImpaler 0]

Printing the HTPLA at standard PLA temps at those speeds causes jams with it. It was suggested to me try a high temp like 260. Which, like PETG, works only in my UM2+E. Seems like only PLA works in my UM3. 

I tried swapping print cores, too, and that didn't work either. Had the bowden tension mid way, all the way down and all the way up, it was one of the first things I tried. 

[jffry7 12]

That can be a bit frustrating. But increasing temp 260C at that low speed of 30mm/s could potentially cause heat creep like @kmanstudios mentioned. But if Printing at 210-220C with 40-60mm/s still causes jams for HTPLA then something is not right, not to mentioned swapping cores also present the same problem. Does the extruder skip steps every now and then before it finally jams or its completely fine until if stops with jam?

 

I am not suppose to say it but that isolates to the material or there is something wrong with your UM3 but highly unlikely considering you print PLA just fine. I could be wrong tho I am no expert.

 

I wish I have those material and test for you. Maybe other members can chime in. If no other reply try to reach out to support and point to this thread. I really hope you can sort this one out, I can feel your pain. (I've had similar experience and its not a pleasant one for me nor the printer ? )

 

EDIT: I am not sure if UM Support can help on 3rd party material but I hope they point you on the right direction. Please let us know. Its like a fish-bone stuck in my throat, cant get it off and not even the one that have the issue.

Edited July 25, 2018 by jffry7

[friedl_basson 6]

On 7/25/2018 at 5:24 AM, jffry7 said:

Heat creep seems to be culprit thats why I ask also if printing HTPLA at 210-220 at 40-60mm/s will cause jam, as it might indicate the problem elsewhere.

 

I too would like to know but more that I hope he managed to good print with a good printer such as UM3. Tho I will not say its perfect, we just all learn what makes our printer tick.

 

Hi @ScarletImpaler - 

 

I realised this thread is darted, but I am going through the forum looking for advice on CPE and stumbled upon your question about @Proto-pasta HTPLA.  Coming of the back of a couple of rolls of HTPLA printing on UM2+ I can tell you the following regarding my experience printing:

 

1. The normal HTPLA printed very similar to PLA. I could switch between profiles seamlessly.  UM2+ does not officially even support HTPLA so as far as the printer is concerned, it is printing with PLA.  
2. I printed at anything between 205C and 215C with a 0.4mm Nozzle at either 0.15mm or 0.1mm layer height.
3. I had less luck printing with Matt Fibre HTPLA. Here I encountered quite a bit of stringing and for the most of is, thin walls was a lot more brittle than normal PLA/HTPLA.
4. Stringing became better with flow rates of around 90%-95%
5. Heated bed - 60C
6. Used Magigoo
7. I never pushed nozzle temp up to 260C... even at 235C it was simply free flowing out of the nozzle making for terrible looking prints.

In fact, I much prefer printing with Proto-Pasta HTPLA as apposed to normal Proto-Pasta PLA.  Attached picture of and enclosure base printed with Joel's Proto-Pasta Hight Five Blue HTPLA. Came out way better than any of the normal PLA prints.  

 

Hope you managed to resolve you issue, if not, maybe these can help.  Also, please note, these are my experiences with Proto-Pasta HTPLA, by on means am I suggesting these are law 🙂 

 

Best of luck.

Friedl.